Windows 10 - Deeper Impressions

[Dibya]

6 hours ago, vinifera said:

coz you use wrong tools
slipstreaming updates is easy as with nlite, just another tool is needed
and they are not bigger than DVD at all, if you use clean source, as in win7 SP1, with all updates till now (ofc not counting obsolete ones that were replaced)
you get maximum +200 MB and ISO which is for all SKU's is what 3 GB ?

the most that takes space in NT 6 integration are drivers, nothing else and WIM is so much easier to edit "on the fly" unlike i386 which you have to
decab EVERY file you edit, in WIM not, WIM is just archive and you uopen it as such (hint 7zip) haha

also comparing XP which is like 600 MB and single SKU vs NT 6 that contains ALL SKU's is... dumb

hand on hand x86 XP Pro version  ~600 MB, x86 win7 pro ~2.2 GB (yes tweaked both), tho one modder who did tinyXP and did tiny7, made win7 to fit 700MB CD
so there you go

MY XP ISO is AS Small As 270MB with openoffice + all myapps(Small apps like firefox, sumatra pdf + other like img burn) + windows themes + win8.1 Transformation pack Slipstreamed+ All hotfixes+MSvisual runtime till 2015 + all netframework + Wic and XPS

If you know making entries.ini for nlite /rvmi (It is toooo easy) you can edit XP on fly.

In RyanVM forum, you can get many good update packs and addons.

[JorgeA]

11 hours ago, NoelC said:

With Win 7 and 8.1 I've always been able to run them virtually forever no matter how many terabytes of data I have them crunch through (and never forget, the modern hardware can do MUCH more of that than the old hardware of yesteryear).  The only things I've had to reboot Windows 7 and newer for in recent years have been things like Windows Updates and driver installations.

Be careful, be very careful with those updates, even for older OSes. Microsoft ain't what it used to be. In the last couple of weeks I've run into two sets of MAJOR problems with updates from Microsoft. My neighbor, whom I'd assisted in setting up a Windows 10 PC, installed some Office 2016 updates late last week and they broke his Outlook. The program would crash instantly on launch. He tried scanpst and sfc /scannow and they didn't help. A Web search turned up various exotic suggestions such as creating a new Outlook profile and whatnot, but I had him do a System Restore (from my own experience with the Insider builds I knew to tell him to turn it on, as incredibly in Win10 it's off by default) and he got his Outlook working again, but now he's leery of ever installing any new Office updates for fear that they'll break his software again. And this is on a  brand-new PC with freshly installed software.

And personally, some update from the May batch (probably a .NET Framework update) royally screwed up my Vista laptop. First it BSOD'd, then after a visit to System Repair with the installation DVD it would only go into Safe Mode. Eventually I got it back to some semblance of normalcy, but now (1) Aero Glass is still broken; (2) the Intel graphics driver keeps crashing (and no newer ones exist); (3)  after every reboot it claims that I need to install the monitor (!); and finally, (4) it now takes 5-6 hours to find and install new updates. (In the effort to fix the graphics issues, I uninstalled every version of the .NET Framework that was on the laptop, as well as all of the patches from May, and am now slowly reinstalling all the .NET Framework patches one by one, save for the ones from May of course.) All of this worked just fine before May's Patch Tuesday (and I did wait to install in case reports of problems cropped up).

Oh, and I tried several different FixIts from MS Support, none of which ever succeeded in installing itself, let alone in fixing the problem. Ultimately, I'll probably need to reinstall Vista from scratch.

--JorgeA

[jaclaz]

1 hour ago, JorgeA said:

... whom I'd assisted in setting up a Windows 10 PC,...

 Traitor! 

Or maybe  you wanted some revenge for that time he broke the lawnmower you lent him .

jaclaz

 

[Dibya]

2 hours ago, JorgeA said:

Be careful, be very careful with those updates, even for older OSes. Microsoft ain't what it used to be. In the last couple of weeks I've run into two sets of MAJOR problems with updates from Microsoft. My neighbor, whom I'd assisted in setting up a Windows 10 PC, installed some Office 2016 updates late last week and they broke his Outlook. The program would crash instantly on launch. He tried scanpst and sfc /scannow and they didn't help. A Web search turned up various exotic suggestions such as creating a new Outlook profile and whatnot, but I had him do a System Restore (from my own experience with the Insider builds I knew to tell him to turn it on, as incredibly in Win10 it's off by default) and he got his Outlook working again, but now he's leery of ever installing any new Office updates for fear that they'll break his software again. And this is on a  brand-new PC with freshly installed software.

And personally, some update from the May batch (probably a .NET Framework update) royally screwed up my Vista laptop. First it BSOD'd, then after a visit to System Repair with the installation DVD it would only go into Safe Mode. Eventually I got it back to some semblance of normalcy, but now (1) Aero Glass is still broken; (2) the Intel graphics driver keeps crashing (and no newer ones exist); (3)  after every reboot it claims that I need to install the monitor (!); and finally, (4) it now takes 5-6 hours to find and install new updates. (In the effort to fix the graphics issues, I uninstalled every version of the .NET Framework that was on the laptop, as well as all of the patches from May, and am now slowly reinstalling all the .NET Framework patches one by one, save for the ones from May of course.) All of this worked just fine before May's Patch Tuesday (and I did wait to install in case reports of problems cropped up).

Oh, and I tried several different FixIts from MS Support, none of which ever succeeded in installing itself, let alone in fixing the problem. Ultimately, I'll probably need to reinstall Vista from scratch.

--JorgeA

Nothing but guys and gals there at MS becamed too much lazy to test patches or gone completly out of there sense

[xpclient]

Even if you try to think from a tablet OS perspective (after all, it's for tablets that Microsoft completely destroyed Windows). MS Bob 10 is STILL not a good tablet OS either.  Look at the important things a GOOD tablet experience needs to have:

- 7 or 8 inch size is optimum because one can hold it in 1 hand & those tablets are lightweight. Windows tablets, including Surface or other 2-in-1s are large. Windows tablets in 7-8 inch sizes are a nightmare bcoz of mixture of Metro and classic UI. Classic UI while excellent on PC is too small at that high resolutions and dimensions to operate by TOUCH. Need to hold large tablets with two hands and operate by thumbs.
- No tablets with 4:3 aspect ratio - important for web browsing in landscape orientation. If they exist, they have some other core specs wrong. Surface comes close with 3:2 but again it's touchpad is CRAP because it is missing physical buttons and you're stuck with the awful Windows 10.
- Very poor quality cameras on Windows tablets, even worse than Android tablets
- Store Apps suck. No good core touch-friendly apps for photos, web browser, keyboards, camera, media player, email, calendar etc. Google apps like Maps, YouTube missing. Microsoft apps are UTTER CRAP. High quality third party apps non-existent. App gap exists for YEARS?
- General bloat of Windows updates and apps = storage hell. They are hiding update size of Windows Updates besides forcing them
- No powerful SoCs. Intel just killed Atom!! NVIDIA's ARM SoCs on the other hand are amazing!
- Update hell=bandwidth abuse, stuff getting reset, broken and bloated thanks to Windows Update
- Display/DPI scaling is hell again due to mixture of classic and Metro UI. This is hell for PCs too because of some very incorrect decisions taken to improperly scale legacy Win32 apps. For example, MS lets developers incorrectly declare apps as DPI-aware via a manifest even if they don't scale. The user is again not in full control of DPI scaling at the individual app level.
- UI and productivity hell because they keep starting over and over again, omitting features, forcing re-learning of the downgrade. No continuity in the next version, no trust left in Microsoft
- Battery life hell due to aforementioned issues and general footprint of Windows being larger than mobile OSes

Compared to this, consider a good tablet like Xiaomi Mi Pad 7.9 which I own:
- Perfect 8 inch size and lightweight, 4:3 aspect ratio. UI is touch-friendly. Missing SYSTEM level functionality can also be supplemented by apps from Google Play or F-Droid repository
- Cameras are decent even if they can't match Android smartphone cameras
- Android has the most diverse collection of apps. I even have an SMB server running on my tablet!! Or a fast launcher to open anything by searching or browsing. You name it and Android has a DECENT app for that. Android OEMs are doing a good job of fixing the crappy stock UI built by Google. If you don't like the UI, get a different launcher. Essential apps - photo viewing, camera, web browser, media player, touch keyboard, email, calendar, Maps, Youtube are all excellent on Google Play. For media consumption purposes, the apps are good. You aren't going to do serious work on a tablet anyway.
- I don't mind having KitKat on my tablet. While there are technical improvements in later versions of Android, I don't see any big UX improvements. It's a BIG RELIEF not having huge bloated forced updates on Android. I even turned off automatic app updates except for the apps I use the most which are auto-updated. Yes, Android gives you MORE granular control over app updates and system updates than Bob 10.
- NVIDIA Tegra K1 SoC in my Xiaomi Mi Pad is very powerful for gaming
- Battery life is still excellent

Microsoft still does not know how to build a good tablet experience and they've already destroyed the PC OS while TRYING to copy Apple and Google. And the most important reason for avoiding Windows, it's the only OS which takes huge steps backwards for no reason and deletes many features because they want to sell the newest hipster technology. The next version is always a downgrade in some way or the other.

Edited June 1, 2016 by xpclient

[NoelC]

5 hours ago, JorgeA said:

Be careful, be very careful with those updates, even for older OSes. Microsoft ain't what it used to be.

Absolutely.  It has been good policy in the past to keep up to date, but now it's something that MUST be carefully considered, and not just once.

ALL my systems have, as a normal state, the Windows Update service Disabled and backed up with a firewall configuration that has to be changed before an update can hope to even begin.  And all web server name resolutions are under strict control of both my hosts file and my DNS server.  That has advantages.  Taking more control always has advantages, if you're willing to put in the effort.

If this list isn't resolved just so, Windows Update can't run:

ctldl.windowsupdate.com
sls.update.microsoft.com
fe2.update.microsoft.com
ds.download.windowsupdate.com
fg.ds.download.windowsupdate.com
v4.download.windowsupdate.com
au.v4.download.windowsupdate.com
fg.v4.download.windowsupdate.com
fe2.ws.microsoft.com
download.windowsupdate.com
go.microsoft.com
www.microsoft.com
statsfe2.update.microsoft.com

Here, prospective updates always go on a VM first and get tested with the tools I use.  Then, only after a time of not hearing others' screams (e.g., here or on AskWoody.com), I consider putting them on the hardware.  I'm sufficiently well protected against zero day attacks to not panic over "OMG security" updates. 

I've already tested and approved the May updates for Win 7 and only a few days ago have gone so far as to install them on my Win 7 small business server hardware with good results (and of course with a "no Win 10 upgrade planned" hide list).  At this point I am NOT going to go with the Win 7 "convenience rollup" updates as they are seen so far to break system protection (again, VM testing proves its worth).

So far I've not found good reason to install any more Win 8.1 updates.  My system is stable and Microsoft is certainly aware that the outcry over newly broken things in 8.1 cannot be as strong as with Win 7, since there are fewer of us running it.  And Office 2016?  Puhleease.  I've dropped back to Office 2010 as of a year ago and will stay there as long as I can hold out.  The good part is that, as with Windows 10, nothing new and useful is being done in Office.  They're just degrading it.

And of course everything I've seen in Redstone 1 won't have me chomping at the bit to "upgrade" to 10 any time soon.  I'm not even particularly interested in the pre-release builds any more.  If I get time I update my test VM.  Ho hum.

-Noel

Edited June 1, 2016 by NoelC

[Dibya]

In old days microsofts engineers are genius they improved there os in every step.

lets compare XP with new ones :-

*XP\2k3Server Booted faster than its ancestor but where most nt6.x builds booted slower than XP\2k3.

*XP\2k3 Server increased speed of XP than its ancestors but where mordern windows slowed down it.

*XP\2k3 are highly stable and less crashes than its ancestors (How many here faced explorer.exe crashed problem in windows 7 also going of screan white)

*DPI Scalling was improved for both newer and ancient softs(Where windows 10 is kicking over it and making it useless)

*Ram use was optimal and very low ( In my laptop , I have dual boot with xp /7 . Win 7 eats double resoarces as much my xp eats)

*Complete new look and made to look better than older os ( Windows 10 is so much ugly that i cannot compare it with 98se or old redhat linux)

*Less Bloated.

* Freedom to user (In newer windows I feel as if i am locked in my own pc)

*Ease of USe( newer oses are too much scatered in menu too work)

==========================================================================================================================================================

In my conclusion Windows ME is far better than Windows 10.

Peoples who think bad about  Vista they are wrong , that time peoples thought it so due to the fact that it cannot be handled properly by that era hardware.

peoples who think bad about XPx64 , they are wrong , that time peoples thought it so as x64 is new standard that time and all old soft is not compatible with it , XPx64 is a gold standard os as it is based on windows 2003 Server DCE the best server platform yet made

Windows 7 is a great os but unfortunately mS is not fixing few bugs

===========================================================================================================================================================

Microsoft should understand it , that they cannot make a playground a highly restricted  army base

[rn10950]

4 hours ago, Dibya said:

In old days microsofts engineers are genius they improved there os in every step.

lets compare XP with new ones :-

*XP\2k3Server Booted faster than its ancestor but where most nt6.x builds booted slower than XP\2k3.

*XP\2k3 Server increased speed of XP than its ancestors but where mordern windows slowed down it.

*XP\2k3 are highly stable and less crashes than its ancestors (How many here faced explorer.exe crashed problem in windows 7 also going of screan white)

*DPI Scalling was improved for both newer and ancient softs(Where windows 10 is kicking over it and making it useless)

*Ram use was optimal and very low ( In my laptop , I have dual boot with xp /7 . Win 7 eats double resoarces as much my xp eats)

*Complete new look and made to look better than older os ( Windows 10 is so much ugly that i cannot compare it with 98se or old redhat linux)

*Less Bloated.

* Freedom to user (In newer windows I feel as if i am locked in my own pc)

*Ease of USe( newer oses are too much scatered in menu too work)

==========================================================================================================================================================

In my conclusion Windows ME is far better than Windows 10.

Peoples who think bad about  Vista they are wrong , that time peoples thought it so due to the fact that it cannot be handled properly by that era hardware.

peoples who think bad about XPx64 , they are wrong , that time peoples thought it so as x64 is new standard that time and all old soft is not compatible with it , XPx64 is a gold standard os as it is based on windows 2003 Server DCE the best server platform yet made

Windows 7 is a great os but unfortunately mS is not fixing few bugs

===========================================================================================================================================================

Microsoft should understand it , that they cannot make a playground a highly restricted  army base

I never understood why people had a problem with XPx64/2K3x64. I have it here on numerous machines and it is incredibly stable and fast. Granted, I'm running it on modern hardware and I just got it a few years ago. (long into Vista and 7's lifespan)

[xpclient]

XP x64 doesn't support hibernation if you have 4 GB RAM or more. Vista does. Windows 7 and 8 can even compress the hibernation file.

[vinifera]

Dibya I was more referring to untouched, not backbone editing
s*** if you wan't NT 6 stripped down to bone yet to work normally it would probably go up to 500 MB
but thats not the point, point was how WIM is easier to edit than i386 setup, moreso for newbies
while youre downloading other peoples scripts and configurations, newbie can do simmiliar by his own

but as always you can't compare the 2 as they are totally different...
 

[JorgeA]

15 hours ago, jaclaz said:

 Traitor! 

Or maybe  you wanted some revenge for that time he broke the lawnmower you lent him .

jaclaz

 

To adapt a phrase from @xpclient, my neighbor's getting Win10 "was not my idea."    I merely came in once the deed was done, as a sort of fireman.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

12 hours ago, NoelC said:

Absolutely.  It has been good policy in the past to keep up to date, but now it's something that MUST be carefully considered, and not just once.

ALL my systems have, as a normal state, the Windows Update service Disabled and backed up with a firewall configuration that has to be changed before an update can hope to even begin.  And all web server name resolutions are under strict control of both my hosts file and my DNS server.  That has advantages.  Taking more control always has advantages, if you're willing to put in the effort.

If this list isn't resolved just so, Windows Update can't run:

ctldl.windowsupdate.com
sls.update.microsoft.com
fe2.update.microsoft.com
ds.download.windowsupdate.com
fg.ds.download.windowsupdate.com
v4.download.windowsupdate.com
au.v4.download.windowsupdate.com
fg.v4.download.windowsupdate.com
fe2.ws.microsoft.com
download.windowsupdate.com
go.microsoft.com
www.microsoft.com
statsfe2.update.microsoft.com

Here, prospective updates always go on a VM first and get tested with the tools I use.  Then, only after a time of not hearing others' screams (e.g., here or on AskWoody.com), I consider putting them on the hardware.  I'm sufficiently well protected against zero day attacks to not panic over "OMG security" updates. 

I've already tested and approved the May updates for Win 7 and only a few days ago have gone so far as to install them on my Win 7 small business server hardware with good results (and of course with a "no Win 10 upgrade planned" hide list).  At this point I am NOT going to go with the Win 7 "convenience rollup" updates as they are seen so far to break system protection (again, VM testing proves its worth).

So far I've not found good reason to install any more Win 8.1 updates.  My system is stable and Microsoft is certainly aware that the outcry over newly broken things in 8.1 cannot be as strong as with Win 7, since there are fewer of us running it.  And Office 2016?  Puhleease.  I've dropped back to Office 2010 as of a year ago and will stay there as long as I can hold out.  The good part is that, as with Windows 10, nothing new and useful is being done in Office.  They're just degrading it.

And of course everything I've seen in Redstone 1 won't have me chomping at the bit to "upgrade" to 10 any time soon.  I'm not even particularly interested in the pre-release builds any more.  If I get time I update my test VM.  Ho hum.

-Noel

Noel, that is an amazing update strategy. I'll bet it's as close to a 100% safe approach as it is possible to get when it comes to Windows Updates nowadays.

That said, I'm curious as to the reason for disabling the Windows Update service and,on top of that, blocking the servers in the firewall. Should we distrust Microsoft to honor the UI setting to "never check for updates"?

Quote

Then, only after a time of not hearing others' screams

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

The "mobile" rationale for wrecking Windows keeps crumbling:

More evidence emerges that smartphone market is saturated

Quote

Everyone has a smartphone. You have a smartphone, your neighbor has a smartphone, and even your neighbor’s dog has a smartphone. Alright, maybe not their dog, but the point is that smartphones are seen everywhere. From daily home use to work relations, having a smartphone is nearly a necessity in a growing digital age.

Which is why it isn’t surprising the smartphone market is almost completely saturated. According to Chetan Sharma analytics, Q1 2016 revealed more evidence that there is a significant decrease in first-time customers.

and so,

Microsoft cuts another 1,850 jobs, takes $950 million charge in its phone hardware business
 

Quote

Microsoft is cutting another 1,850 jobs connected to its mobile-phone business, on the heels of the 4,500 job cuts connected with its sell-off of its feature-phone business a week ago.

[...]

Microsoft also is taking a $950 million impairment and restructuring charge as part of today's announcement, with about $200 million of that total attributable to severance payments.

--JorgeA

[helpdesk98]

always be suspicious, never trust, and even when the read looks clear look again at least when it comes to Microsoft updates and crossing the road. :-)

[JorgeA]

Another tech blogger joins the crowd slamming MSFT's tactics:
Microsoft, don’t be evil

Quote

Many of you seem to be put off by the way Microsoft is trying to get you to upgrade to Windows 10. We’ve all seen the comments, we’ve all read your emails, we’re all feeling your pain. There is little leeway that the powers that be want to give us, like we are some kind of pets and they are our owners.

And it’s offensive. Who does Microsoft think it is to try to control us in such a way? We’re not a bunch of id***, we know what we want. That's a PC that works and doesn’t try to mess with us each time it shows us a prompt. It’s supposed to work for us, offer a predicable user experience, and not get in our way.

It is stupid, to put it bluntly, that we have to rewire our brains to think twice before clicking on a close button or look at Windows Update to block an upgrade for the fear of it installing quietly in the background and us waking up to a whole new operating system running on our PC.

Imagine reading the above before Windows 10 came along. You would have told me that I’m trying to spread FUD, that I’m a Microsoft hater or that I’m clickbaiting. Now, it’s reality and it doesn’t sound crazy. It’s the new normal. I am quite sure these plans were long in the making, well before the big release last year.

Lots more hard-hitting commentary in that post. And that, by a self-professed Win10 fan.

--JorgeA