Windows 10 - Deeper Impressions

[JorgeA]

18 minutes ago, vinifera said:

he has 16x16 view there

you have 32x32
can't compare that

Not sure what you mean. @Agorima is showing what appears to be a full-screen, maximized XP Explorer window (Classic theme) with 9 rows of 18 icons each. I'm showing a full-screen maximized Vista Explorer window (Aero theme) with 9 rows of 18 icons each. How are they not comparable? I wanted to understand what Agorima was talking about, so I tried it out in Vista, and was a little surprised that it seemed to be possible to duplicate in Vista what he did in XP.

(BTW I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, I'm sincerely curious.  )

--JorgeA

[vinifera]

well i wrote it
he made so many to be seeable but all icons are 16x16 size by his view
you did the same but with larger, thus if you'd target 16x16 too you'd get more than he

by number of files shown
tho both vista and 7, dunno for 8/10, have the bug with long names
so there XP wins
then again nt 6 has scalable icons while xp doesn't :P

[Dibya]

15 hours ago, vinifera said:

thats why i liked later Longhorn installations
it was still just background, without "detailed info" - which is useless btw
but on the bottom it showed the 3 stages of setup, which is only thing... there is

1. dvd dumps needed files for setup
2. WIM gets unpacked
3. "OS" is getting configured for user (MS OOBE)

everytime i look at vista/7 setup makes me vomit
 

1. Copying windows files... - okay...
2. Expanding windows files... - WRONG !!!  you're extracting them from archive
3. Installing features... - WTF what f****** features ? this aint Feature Pack nor "Extras" !
4. Installing updates... - WTF ??? - if there are any they are INTEGRATED DOH !!! STEP 2 MORONS !!!
5. Completing installation... - no s***...

I donot prefer wim base installation as it is imposible to slipstream directly.

I XP / 2k3 , Patched files are directly replaced directly in i386 folder by RvMi & Nlite during update pack intrigation and your iso size will be as small as less than 700mb but everything wrong goes with WIM, you have to intrgate msu files , which are impossible to slipstream directly and can increase your iso size more than a DVD.

[NoelC]

I tried to make a 9 x 18 set of icons in a 1024 pixel wide window and found that Windows 8.1's "Small Icons" view is more like "List" view.

Microsoft clearly wanted to wean users from the ability to place icons in certain places.  Trouble is, for those who relied on that, it truly was loss of functionality.  Folks found some ways around that, to resurrect the old "place icons where you want" functionality for a while, then it just became - as with so many other things - akin to paddling upstream so most just forgot about it.

I'm sure Microsoft feels like they're leading the design and taking people - willing or not - toward functionality they feel is better. 

And that actually would even make sense if it IS better.  But they're not really any good about knowing what truly is better, and haven't been since around the time of XP and Vista.  Not any good AT ALL!  Why?  Because someone put the Marketing people in charge of the UI, and THEY think a user interface is about fashion rather than actually using a computer.  It's because they're not smart enough to use a computer themselves for serious work.  And this explains why "Apps" get more and more like web applications, even now to the point where the XAML environment won't even support a serious application.

In the high tech world, geeks need to be in charge of the technical stuff, and make no mistake, the UI is technical stuff.  When the jocks try to take over we get...

Windows 10.

-Noel

[Dibya]

On 5/28/2016 at 8:44 AM, vinifera said:

XP SP0 (RTM), SP1 and SP2, are abandoned

SP3 is also abandoned officially, but since you can trick registry to think OS is no longer XP SP3 but WinEmbedded POS, you can prolog hotfix download till 2019 i think
and it will work for SP3

XP is having more than win8.1 marketshare so unless less than 2% user use it no one can say it as abonedoneware.

Windows XP ForeVer.

We might find XP is used by someone in 20 2nd Century.

XP is good due to its own good.

[Tripredacus]

41 minutes ago, NoelC said:

Windows 10.

It is really just another case of being like Mac:

[NoelC]

A lot of folks like XP, no doubt, but IMO the actuality of running Win 8.1 is better.  Unfortunately, the extra garbage hung all over the later systems, along with the features that have been removed or degraded, make it necessary to do all kinds of stuff (not to mention augment it with 3rd party stuff) to be able to use it for anything serious.  But once good alternatives are found (e.g., for Aero Glass or the Start Menu), Win 8.1 has become my system of choice.

With the reasonably heavy engineering workload I have as an admin/engineer/business manager I always used to be able to destabilize XP after using it for a while - e.g., a week or two...  Even XP x64, though that was better, ultimately wanted to be rebooted.  Presumably XP just had subtle resource leaks, and I suspect the development and refinement of tools like the Application Verifier have helped the more recent systems overcome such problems.

Even Vista x64 on a big system would "use itself up" after a time, but after the latest service pack that pretty much evaporated.  I had Vista x64 Ultimate that ran on a system literally for months at a time without trouble.  With Win 7 and 8.1 I've always been able to run them virtually forever no matter how many terabytes of data I have them crunch through (and never forget, the modern hardware can do MUCH more of that than the old hardware of yesteryear).  The only things I've had to reboot Windows 7 and newer for in recent years have been things like Windows Updates and driver installations.

I guess what I'm saying is that refinement of the kernel was long in coming, and that all that's been done since XP is not bad.

-Noel

[NoelC]

1 hour ago, Tripredacus said:

It is really just another case of being like Mac:

Yes, that is the root of a lot of Win 10's problems, no doubt.

There was a reason Microsoft got 90% of the market share and Apple got 10%.  It figures they would strive to eliminate that reason.  I wonder if any Microsoft employees are Apple double agents... 

-Noel

[xpclient]

I was an advocate of XP for a long time despite Windows Vista, 7 and 8 packing in significant improvements. Those improvements were simply not important to me than the user experience of the OS where XP shined. Over the years, I found suitable replacements or BETTER third party alternatives for almost all of the functionality that was lost from XP to Vista/7. Then I moved to Windows 7, quite late in its lifecycle, around the time Windows 8 came out. Windows 8 was a huge stinking pile of s*** again with too many things broken for no good reason but again, in the past 4 years, third party developers have built suitable substitutes for whatever functionality Microsoft broke in 8. I have again found replacements for almost all of the missing functionality of 7 -> 8.1 and except for a few things, 8.1 can be modified to make it work for you the way you want.

Windows 10 is where I fear this too ends. Third party software cannot fix this broken OS given how badly designed it is right now. It feels broken at the core - the UX is a nightmare, UI is a big failure, and productivity, usability, manageability by the end user have all been destroyed. It's all in Microsoft's hands now - they think they can make the user their slave but they are mistaken. Against Android and iOS and Windows 7 (where the majority still is), I don't think Microsoft stands a chance. They can at the most force desktop users to downgrade to Windows 10 but they will never win over the mobile market. Even the desktop user base is tired of Microsoft's shenanigans which is why I think PC sales are down. People just want to avoid Windows 10 until it all blows over and the upper management at Microsoft changes again. Once Windows 10 adoption figures start going down, they will have yet another disaster on their hands - Vista, 8, 8.1 and 10. 4 failures in less than 10 years. Still there is no hope of the marketing people getting fired and the technical ones taking over. The technical people all seem to be worshiping and copying Apple because that is where the money is. They have no leadership qualities and no vision about sticking to what Microsoft did best.

They are either far too stupid and deserve to lose their jobs. Or they are corrupt, and indeed working as Apple double agents, in which case they should still be fired.

Edited May 31, 2016 by xpclient

[NoelC]

It's like we're brothers from a different mother, xpclient.

Thing is, they stick to XAML and the promise of a better future through the Windows Store like nothing anyone's seen in the history of high tech (and the mothership is so well bankrolled that it isn't even yet driven by need). 

It's unbelievable that anyone could possibly stay such a stinking, idiotic course for so long.  In any case, we know they're capable of staying a course.  It can be nothing but misdirection that is leading them to stick so steadfastly to the wrong one.

-Noel

[vinifera]

6 hours ago, Dibya said:

I donot prefer wim base installation as it is imposible to slipstream directly.

I XP / 2k3 , Patched files are directly replaced directly in i386 folder by RvMi & Nlite during update pack intrigation and your iso size will be as small as less than 700mb but everything wrong goes with WIM, you have to intrgate msu files , which are impossible to slipstream directly and can increase your iso size more than a DVD.

coz you use wrong tools
slipstreaming updates is easy as with nlite, just another tool is needed
and they are not bigger than DVD at all, if you use clean source, as in win7 SP1, with all updates till now (ofc not counting obsolete ones that were replaced)
you get maximum +200 MB and ISO which is for all SKU's is what 3 GB ?

the most that takes space in NT 6 integration are drivers, nothing else and WIM is so much easier to edit "on the fly" unlike i386 which you have to
decab EVERY file you edit, in WIM not, WIM is just archive and you uopen it as such (hint 7zip) haha

also comparing XP which is like 600 MB and single SKU vs NT 6 that contains ALL SKU's is... dumb

hand on hand x86 XP Pro version  ~600 MB, x86 win7 pro ~2.2 GB (yes tweaked both), tho one modder who did tinyXP and did tiny7, made win7 to fit 700MB CD
so there you go

[vinifera]

since i can't edit stuff on this new forum (sorry admin but upgrade was crap idea)
 

I haven't experienced XP to misbehave, that comes with its every week maintaince (garbage clean + defragmentation)
but I am aware that XP has problem with 2 things that KILL it, 1 is that stupid VERCLSID.EXE and its low Desktop Heap in registry
these 2 make OS freeze and stop working

NT 6 doesn't rely on VERCLSID in same manner but Desktop Heap was increased so no troubles there

as for XAML and "win store", pff MS is behind everyone in all this things...
Linux was 1st and this was lol when ????
Apple 2nd (iOS/iPhone) - 2008 yes ?
then Android
and glorious MS when 2 years ago ? and is still broken

[NoelC]

Vin, I was able to edit a post earlier today for the first time in days.  Something's changing, at least occasionally.

Edit:  I just added this line.

-Noel

Edited May 31, 2016 by NoelC

[ralcool]

There was once a young man who, in his youth, professed his desire to become a great writer. When asked to define "great" he said, "I want to write stuff that the whole world will read, stuff that people will react to on a truly emotional level, stuff that will make them scream, cry, howl in pain and anger"!

He now works for Microsoft, writing error messages.

[BudwS]

9 hours ago, Tripredacus said:

It is really just another case of being like Mac:

Wow, just recognized the Mac "bomb" icon.  LOL.  I haven't seen that icon for maybe 20 years.  Thanks for the memory.