NoelC Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 It seems many folks who have some sense have chosen an older version of Windows to stick with. "For now". But current systems will fail. Even if you're capable of maintaining a working Windows system for years, at least some of the hardware will ultimately fail. When it just won't wake up one day what will you do? Is the plan to visit eBay and try to pick up a system just like the one you have now? What if such a system just isn't available? Replacement hardware will at least need a backup restored, then a plea to allow activation (which Microsoft has no obligation to grant), and at worst the new hardware won't even be able to run that comfortable older operating system we chose to stay with. Who is actually accumulating legacy hardware to allow them to continue using their current systems for more than a few more years? Even stodgy, conservative businesses buy new computers. What then? The future of people who need computing is now more a mystery than ever, yet we're driving headlong into it at breakneck speed. The difficult question we each need to ask ourselves - especially as the time for locking in a free upgrade approaches - is whether trying to make do with a Win 10 installation could possibly be more prudent, more workable, less expensive, less painful than trying to make do with an older one. Right now, today, since build 10586 has gotten to be somewhat mature the choice is harder than ever. The decision might actually become easier when the next major release comes out. Will Microsoft make that happen before or after the end of July? In a way, being insulated from their "update continuously" policy for the longest Windows 10 run ever will be a great incentive for more conservative folks. And there is now gray area... For example, if one were to choose to stay on 10586 even after "redstone 1" releases - and that IS technically possible - then what happens? Does it ultimately expire? Does it just keep working, but get NO updates? Can we choose to skip new major releases or at best delay them many months? -Noel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 6 minutes ago, NoelC said: [...] In a way, being insulated from their "update continuously" policy for the longest Windows 10 run ever will be a great incentive for more conservative folks. Noel, could you elaborate on that a little? I'm not sure what you mean when you write about "being insulated from the 'update continuously' policy." --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) Two things: 10586 has had the longest Win 10 run yet, right? 10240 was released in July 2015, and 10586 released in November - 4 months. Now it's been 6 months we've had 10586, so at 6 months you could say it's become the most mature Win 10 ever - and it shows. It works decently, once you get past the fact that it's not really even as feature-rich as its predecessors. While we don't know the next in-place upgrade release date, the rumblings aren't terribly loud, so I doubt it's going to be really soon. We now know pretty well how to control Windows 10 Updates. One could, if one were feeling conservative about wanting to keep current - but not TOO current - conceivably keep the next in-place upgrade at bay for a while. We already know there's a several month delay you can invoke with settings, but even beyond that, just having an update available doesn't mean it HAS to go in. We have learned how to control updates again, even using Microsoft's own tools (WUShowHide) to do it. My plan has been and still is - tentatively - to stick with Windows 8.1 while continuing to stay up to date with what Microsoft is doing via virtual machine test environments, but I continue to evaluate the lay of the land. Things are always changing. Right now I do have a running Win 10 setup in a virtual machine that does what I want and could support my business goals - within my abilities to test it (but of course, there's no test like actually trying to RELY on something). I even have a script developed that I can use to help ease the pain of the next in-place upgrade, if and when I would decide to accept it. The question right now seems really not to be one of "where is the best value" but rather "where is the least pain". The biggest difficulty is that an unprecedented amount of future predicting needs to be done. -Noel Edited May 15, 2016 by NoelC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Thanks very much, now I understand. Microsoft has become so obnoxious aggressive about keeping everybody current that I'll be pleasantly surprised if it turns out that users can keep those cumulative updates at bay indefinitely, but only time will tell for sure. I would expect the next build to be the Anniversary Update coming out around the end of July. But even lesser updates (sub-versions of a build) can cause havoc, as we've seen lately with @bigmuscle's Aero Glass. 4 minutes ago, NoelC said: The question right now seems really not to be one of "where is the best value" but rather "where is the least pain". And that sums up, in one sentence, the sorry state that we've reached. --JorgeA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Like seeing Promoted Apps in the Start Menu? You'll love the Windows 10 Anniversary Update Quote Possibly the most despised feature of Windows 10 is advertisements. They show up in your apps list, lock screen, and even the Start Menu. Sadly, Microsoft plans to double the amount of Promoted Apps that you'll find hiding in the Start Menu when the Windows 10 Anniversary Update is released this summer. More specifically, the number of Suggested Apps will increase from five to 10. At the same time, the number of "static" apps (stock apps that are pinned to the Start Menu by default) will decrease from 17 to 12. Another good reason to drag the Start Menu's right border all the way to the left edge of the screen and make the tiles disappear. [source: https://www.neowin.net/images/uploaded/2016/05/6_capture.jpg] Note the bit at the bottom about users being "in control." So, are you going to let us replace these Start Menu tile panels with a link panel as in XP, Vista, and 7? If you did, then we might have something that's actually useful there. What a joke. As @xpclient says, maybe we're expected now to be mere consumers instead of producers. --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralcool Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) "in control" of your ability to buy apps, and remove them again to make more space to buy more! 'Promoted Apps' is a kind way of saying, "We extorted money to put on the front page of our flagship- that product, now please buy it". As a feature update, they've doubled the space! ... Darling daughter really wanted me to install MineCraft, Oh I tried... but however deep I go, my store & xbox app just won't won't connect, O&O10 or whatever its called has worked well. Not interested in fixing it either... Steam is fine, and equally an un-needed shell/loader for just games on Windows.. WTF.. Can't things just run from a desktop icon. Edited May 16, 2016 by ralcool paranoid grammar corrections ;) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 The funny thing is most folks running Windows 10 don't feel like a frog in a pot of hot water. That's what I hate most about Microsoft using their position of power - they are slowly and nefariously redefining what's to be considered acceptable. -Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosamja Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 as long as there are programs to fix windows 10 (like aero glass, startisback...) it doesnt matter what changes microsoft makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Microsoft makes final, aggressive Windows 10 upgrade push Quote According to both the latest and the previous versions of the support document, the upgrade and its scheduled implementation is approved when the user either clicks the "OK" button or the "X" in the upper right corner of the notification. "If you click on OK or on the red 'X', you're all set for the upgrade and there is nothing further to do," the document stated. The "X" Microsoft mentioned is one way to close a window in Windows. But Microsoft's interpretation of clicking the X is contrary to decades of practice in windowed user interfaces (UIs) and normal user expectations: To users, shutting a window by clicking the X tells the OS to remove the notification or application frame without expressing an opinion, selecting an option or calling up an operation. Instead, Microsoft equates closing the window with approving the scheduled upgrade. Microsoft has applied some unusual stratagems in its efforts to get customers to upgrade to Windows 10, but this behavior is among its most aggressive simply because it is deceptive in the context of normal Windows UI behavior. [emphasis added] Just incredible. What is it called when a pop-up ad on a website goes ahead and installs that PC cleaner anyway if you click on the red X in the corner? --JorgeA 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Here's one small improvement to Windows 10: New Windows 10 build kills controversial password-sharing Wi-Fi Sense Quote According to Microsoft, few people actually used the feature and some were actively turning it off. “The cost of updating the code to keep this feature working combined with low usage and low demand made this not worth further investment,” said Gabe Aul, Microsoft’s Windows Insider czar. Great, it turns out that it IS possible to overestimate the ignorance, indifference, or stupidity of the Windows user base: enough of them were going into their settings to turn off this "feature," that MSFT decided to scrap it. Wi-Fi Sense was a nightmare waiting to happen. Maybe the lawyers got involved and actually did some good before disaster struck. --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudwS Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 In the late 1990's and early 2000's, large mainframe computers went into Product Cycle Termination. IBM was the Microsoft of the computer world at that time. Small computers slowly took over the computer market to bring us to the point that we are at now. What MS is doing now looks a lot like what IBM did then. The results will probably be similar. The computer world did not end, but it did change for the better. Having worked for 30+ years doing mainframe support, it's deja vu all over again. The transition has begun several years ago. I suggest that iPhones, iPads, yes even watches are part of the current transition. Many people have told me that they got rid of their laptops and desktop and only use an iPad now. It has all the apps that they need and the apps work. I've added a large iMac as a stable base computer and it's fully compatible with the iPhone and iPad. All the software that I use runs on one or more of the computers in that family. Microsoft software runs on the iMac as well. I suspect that more and more business computer users will transition to new computer platforms. That's what happened when business users jumped the IBM flag ship. Understand what's happening now from one who lived through it before. I suspect that there are many of us in this forum who experienced the same situation. I just didn't expect to see another major Product Cycle Termination in my lifetime. Maybe I'll be around to see the next computer transition. They seem to be more frequent as time goes by. And computer life will go on and the world will not stop turning. In the meantime, it's fun working and playing with the computer dinosaurs while using some of the new computer technology for everyday needs. It is also fun when I can teach a young person how to turn on their new computer and make it do something productive. Yes, life is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralcool Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 https://www.hackster.io/janost/the-nano-vic-20-e37b39?ref=part&ref_id=11332&offset=25 Something about dinosaurs..... Good old fashioned technology is alive and well- it just sometimes lives in a new home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formfiller Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 It finally happens. Windows 10 will be installed automatically it seems, unless the user actively opts out before that: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2458314/updategate-microsoft-is-giving-specific-times-for-compulsory-windows-10-upgrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formfiller Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Finally. Almost all of the Channel9 denizens are pissed of over the Windows 10 nag: https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/Annoying-Get-W10-updates Incredible. It takes A LOT to turn some of these guys against MS. W10 did what W8 wasn't able to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rn10950 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 13 minutes ago, Formfiller said: Finally. Almost all of the Channel9 denizens are pissed of over the Windows 10 nag: https://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/Annoying-Get-W10-updates Incredible. It takes A LOT to turn some of these guys against MS. W10 did what W8 wasn't able to. I never thought I'd see the day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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