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Windows 10 - Deeper Impressions

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Proudly running Windows XP in Skylake System

It is a monster

Ram limit unlocked with  PAE

Processor:: Intel Core i7-6700k

Motherboard:: MSI Z170A Gaming 7

RAM :: Cosair Vengeance(2x8GB) CMK -8GX4M1A2400C14R

HDD:: WD WD30EZRX 3TB (No problem I will manage it trought RAID5)

SSD:: SAMSUNG 850 PRO 256GB

GFX CARD:: MSI NVDIA GTX 980TI GAMING 6G

SOUNDCARD::ASUS XONAR D2X7.1

PC IS Faster than anything

In multi I have windows 8.1 which was not used by me most of time then also getting slower than slug although it was tweaked and i do a monthly maintanance.

hardware companys taken money from ms to stop supporting old oses.

Who will leave super solid 7 & ultra solid xp instead of hell 10?

 

So you got a VR machine setup there near identical to my rig which has an ASUS 980GTX card in it and a creative ZX soundcard. I am told that VR (Oculus Rift in my case when it arrives) will only run on Windows 10 which is why mine runs on 10 not 7. Do you have any plans to run VR on your XP box and if so what is the plan? The only reason I am running Win10 is because I want to play Elite Dangerous in VR.

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when they kill some app and driver support, then people will be forced

 

skype is one of known examples

firefox too

chrome too

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Proudly running Windows XP in Skylake System

It is a monster

Ram limit unlocked with  PAE

Processor:: Intel Core i7-6700k

Motherboard:: MSI Z170A Gaming 7

RAM :: Cosair Vengeance(2x8GB) CMK -8GX4M1A2400C14R

HDD:: WD WD30EZRX 3TB (No problem I will manage it trought RAID5)

SSD:: SAMSUNG 850 PRO 256GB

GFX CARD:: MSI NVDIA GTX 980TI GAMING 6G

SOUNDCARD::ASUS XONAR D2X7.1

PC IS Faster than anything

In multi I have windows 8.1 which was not used by me most of time then also getting slower than slug although it was tweaked and i do a monthly maintanance.

hardware companys taken money from ms to stop supporting old oses.

Who will leave super solid 7 & ultra solid xp instead of hell 10?

That sounds great, I'm planning on building a PC with an i7 and about 64GB of RAM and putting 64-bit XP on there, have you had any luck with 64-bit XP?

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Here's an illustration of what happens when you minimize or eliminate visual UI cues such as colors and window borders:

 

jtJ7Qqs.jpg

 

The text, "Norton Download Manager," is part of a window that's sitting on top of a File Explorer window. Where does that window begin or end? You have to speculate as to where it is, based on the location of the X to close the window and the Cancel/Retry buttons, and the minimal contrast between the stark white of the whole window and the faint blue of the Explorer menu bar. Otherwise there is no indication as to the top window's location: I wanted to move it around the screen and ended up clicking on the File Explorer window several times before finally landing on the area where I could click to drag.

 

What genius came up with this user-hostile design??  :realmad:

 

--JorgeA

 

 

 

  • Upvote 1

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Agreed, that's just ridiculous.  I'm absolutely convinced there's a design magazine or something (certainly a mandate at Microsoft) that says something like "The UI should disappear if you want your App to look Modern", and the design hipsters take it literally whenever possible.  I assume opiates or acid must be involved whenever design hipsters (try to) think.

 

I believe Windows 10 is putting (admittedly fairly light) drop shadows around all windows now...  I wonder if that same software on Windows 10 would get a drop shadow... 

 

If so, perhaps this is a secret initiative where you're supposed to like the declining level of integration on your old system less and less, and ultimately feel the need to "upgrade" to Windows 10.

 

I might suggest you take it as just another indication that the people who program Norton software aren't the brightest tools in the shed, er, sharpest bulbs in the lamp, er, whatever and just avoid Norton software entirely.  What is it you feel you need a download manager for?  I don't claim to know what such a tool even does, except to say that I've not felt the need for one.

 

-Noel

 

 

P.S.,

 

I blew off Office 365 (2013) because it was just all "polar bear in a snowstorm" too, and dropped back to Office 2010.  I hear the latest versions are no better.

 

On an older system desktop applications such as Microsoft Visual Studio and Adobe Photoshop don't drop any shadows on anything, but usually these take up almost all the screen anyway due to their nature.  There is a way to tell the OS not to composite any borders, and the programmers for such applications have taken all the button management, etc. on themselves - in other words they've gone out of their way to make their applications NOT follow the theme.  How twisted is that?

Edited by NoelC

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Only seemingly unrelated:

http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/02/most-software-already-has-a-golden-key-backdoor-its-called-auto-update/

Yet, here is a sad joke that happens to describe the reality we presently live in:

Q: What does almost every piece of software with an update mechanism, including every popular operating system, have in common?

A: Secure golden keys, cryptographic single-points-of-failure which can be used to enable total system compromise via targeted malicious software updates.

jaclaz

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Agreed, that's just ridiculous.  I'm absolutely convinced there's a design magazine or something (certainly a mandate at Microsoft) that says something like "The UI should disappear if you want your App to look Modern", and the design hipsters take it literally whenever possible.  I assume opiates or acid must be involved whenever design hipsters (try to) think.

 

I believe Windows 10 is putting (admittedly fairly light) drop shadows around all windows now...  I wonder if that same software on Windows 10 would get a drop shadow... 

 

The screenshot is from a Windows 10 system, so I guess that the answer is no.

 

I might suggest you take it as just another indication that the people who program Norton software aren't the brightest tools in the shed, er, sharpest bulbs in the lamp, er, whatever and just avoid Norton software entirely.  What is it you feel you need a download manager for?  I don't claim to know what such a tool even does, except to say that I've not felt the need for one.

 

:lol:

 

I should explain that the download manager is part of Norton's attempt to slip through an installation of Norton Security onto the PCs of people who tried out their Norton Security Scan. When you download and install the NSS, you can scan your system for threats. But it turns out that NSS also downloads the full Norton Security suite for you, and next it pops out a window telling you that the program is ready to install -- with no evident way to decline the installation!! (Much like that loathsome Win10 "install now" or "install later" thingie for Windows 7 users.) The "download manager" is not for general use, it's related specifically to the installation of Norton Security.

 

Yeah, Norton has been busy removing features from its software lately, and they're now even declining to participate in at least one major AV test lab's ratings. So the time is approaching when I may switch away from Norton for my work computers.

 

--JorgeA

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Only seemingly unrelated:

http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/02/most-software-already-has-a-golden-key-backdoor-its-called-auto-update/

Yet, here is a sad joke that happens to describe the reality we presently live in:

Q: What does almost every piece of software with an update mechanism, including every popular operating system, have in common?

A: Secure golden keys, cryptographic single-points-of-failure which can be used to enable total system compromise via targeted malicious software updates.

 

jaclaz

 

 

This is an excellent point:

 

...Imagine if some other murderous criminal organization wanted to access data on a PIN-encrypted iPhone. What if they, like the FBI has now done, found some people who understand how the technology works and figured out who needs to be coerced to make it possible? Having access to a "secure golden key" could be quite dangerous if sufficiently motivated people decide that they want access to it.

 

--JorgeA

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We go on about how Microsoft is dumbing things down in Windows. Linux, which should be the leading candidate to take lobotomized Windows's place on the dekstop of serious computer users, has failed time and again to seize the opportunity. In his latest post, Dedoimedo points to the likeliest reason: whereas the 'Softies are busy dumbing things down, the Penguins take the exact opposite approach, priding themselves in keeping things as arcane and difficult as can be.

 

One of the chief complains I had was about codecs. Indeed, to be able to play anything in any sort of proprietary file formats and such, you will need additional components that are not provided in the official repositories, for a variety of legal restrictions. This means adding some community sources, like I showed you in my openSUSE Nvidia guide.

 

Of course, this was one of the first things I did, and then went about ranting how openSUSE still refused to play music. The technical problem is quite elaborate, in fact. First, the community repositories provide a number of similar YET conflicting packages that cannot coexist, and you may end up with issues that may prevent you from installing or updating your software. Finding the right codecs is very difficult. For example, you need to know what gstreamer or fluendo is before you can get MP3 to play - maybe. Now, how are honest new users ever to guess that gstreamer of the ugly sort is going to give them what they expect? Why not have a simple transitional package called mp3-codecs that solves all the problems automatically? How nerdy does the implementation have to be? This is true for all distributions, btw.

 

To make things worse, even armed with codecs, Leap refused to play proprietary formats. Complicating matters still, the VLC player, which ought to be our salvation, provided by third-party repositories, does not come with its own codec stack, so it is useless. A critical component that actually makes VLC useful is not a dependency for the main binary, causing much stupidity to ensue. To say nothing of package conflicts.

 

In the end, the simple action of listening to some music comes down to several critical obstacles that normal users will never be able to solve, nor should they: 1) The inclusion of undocumented third-party sources 2) Package conflicts in the unofficial software channels 3) Practical inability to search for relevant content 4) Missing dependencies for core functionality 5) Even with the right codecs provided, the default music player cannot play MP3 songs. All of these are the state in which Leap ships and eventually delivers the multimedia experience to whoever is brave and willing enough, with partial, missing and inadequate, downright dangerous results.

 

Charitably, Dedoimedo ascribes it to a lack of "reading comprehension":

 

That, my dear readers, is called reading comprehension. And it is one of the leading causes of confusion in the Linux world. Because people don't see reviews, they see personal criticism for some reason. People do not see technical bugs and problems - all beautifully documented with tons of words, snippets of errors and bloody screenshots - they see users and how nooby or not they might be in handling these bugs. It's a moral question, not one of convenience not to fiddle with technical nonsense that shouldn't exist in the first place. In other words, the accountability for providing excellent, stable software is transposed onto the end user.

 

Lots of good points made in the full writeup. The conclusion:

 

Linux isn't about who has a bigger e-peen. Things that normal people need should work in a normal way. It is one hundred billion million kajillion percent developers' fault for not providing the right solution. If I want to listen to MP3 songs, then I bloody want MP3 to play, and I don't care how you do it. And if a user wants to find the stuff what plays MP3 songs, they'd better find it without spilling blood and tears. The fact this still hasn't been resolved in 2016 is a direct consequence of reading comprehension in the Linux community. Or rather, the lack thereof.

 

When people complain about technology, they are not attacking YOU. They are attacking lousy products. They want sh*t done. As long as the commentary diverges into discussions about noobs, someone's ability to gstreamer their sister and such, Linux will NEVER rise mighty as a consumer product. If your first instinct is to discuss the reviewer, you should shift-delete your Internet. It's all about being able to receive constructive feedback. Once that happens, we might actually end up with some decent software.

 

Microsoft errs in one direction, the Linux community in the diametrically opposite direction. What's going to be left for us in the middle, who are fascinated by but not obsessed with technology, who want a rich computing experience that we can mold to our wishes but without having to manually screw into place every single bolt on the engine?

 

We need a happy medium, as Windows used to be and is increasingly moving away from.

 

--JorgeA

 

  • Upvote 3

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Whoa, and we thought Win10 was bad with our privacy:

 

Baidu's browser leaks sensitive information

 

The browser provided by Baidu (China's answer to Google), leaks all kinds of personal data. Researchers at Canada’s Citizen Lab tested the browser and concluded it "collects and transmits a lot of personal user data back to Baidu servers that we believe goes far beyond what should be collected, and it does so either without encryption, or with easily decryptable encryption".

 

[...]

 

The Windows version leaks search terms, hard drive serial number, network MAC address, as well as the title of all visited webpages. GPU model number is also transmitted.

 

At this point, things just become ridiculous. Neither the Windows nor Android versions of the browser protect their software updates with code signatures. That means a hacker could, quite easily, make the app download and execute malicious code.

 

--JorgeA

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In my humble opinion both Windows and Linux have been effed up deliberately. The choice - our choice - inevitably has to be between dumb and dumber. Someone decided so.

 

What are we gonna do?

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Just thinking out loud...

 

Someone sufficiently endowed with funds and time could write a whole new OS.  It's not like it's an impossible or forbidden task.  Just somewhat impractical.  And it's not like you would have to start completely over...  For example, Digital's VMS could be resurrected and expanded upon, and a Win32 API written for it.

 

I guess a question then becomes clear:  Does this hypothetical new OS (HypOS) get taken in a direction where the developers could become insanely wealthy by it?  And if so, how would that differ from where we are now?

 

And...

 

What about hardware?  Does HypOS strive to follow so closely in Windows' footsteps that it uses the same hardware (but probably more efficiently)?

 

--

 

Another pie-in-the-sky idea might be to have a government develop a general purpose OS for all as a Public Works project.  Something with nothing other than the common good in mind, and with a charter to advance the state of the art in an open way to make sure it stays for the common good.

 

Would a government-sponsored OS ever actually get done?  Would it work?  Would it be as bloated and inefficient as a government (which may STILL be better than Windows is today)?  Would it be loaded with surveillance logic?

 

--

 

Maybe everyone should just continue to use Windows 7 (or maybe a tweaked, non-cloud 8.1) for their general purpose computing until something actually better comes along, and just not buy hardware that doesn't support these old systems.  THIS seems the most likely.

 

-Noel

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As you know I have been experimenting with Linux (Fedora) I found that after a lot of tweaking you can make it good. Is it good for every user? No definitely not it depends on your situation what you are going to use it for. In my case I used it for mostly searching the web, document processing, and tiny little bit of gaming. It all worked to some degree.

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so many distors I don't even know which is for what ...

another reason to hate linux

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One of the chief complains I had was about codecs. Indeed, to be able to play anything in any sort of proprietary file formats and such, you will need additional components that are not provided in the official repositories, for a variety of legal restrictions. This means adding some community sources, like I showed you in my openSUSE Nvidia guide.

 

Of course, this was one of the first things I did, and then went about ranting how openSUSE still refused to play music. The technical problem is quite elaborate, in fact. First, the community repositories provide a number of similar YET conflicting packages that cannot coexist, and you may end up with issues that may prevent you from installing or updating your software. Finding the right codecs is very difficult. For example, you need to know what gstreamer or fluendo is before you can get MP3 to play - maybe. Now, how are honest new users ever to guess that gstreamer of the ugly sort is going to give them what they expect? Why not have a simple transitional package called mp3-codecs that solves all the problems automatically? How nerdy does the implementation have to be? This is true for all distributions, btw.

 

To make things worse, even armed with codecs, Leap refused to play proprietary formats. Complicating matters still, the VLC player, which ought to be our salvation, provided by third-party repositories, does not come with its own codec stack, so it is useless. A critical component that actually makes VLC useful is not a dependency for the main binary, causing much stupidity to ensue. To say nothing of package conflicts.

 

In the end, the simple action of listening to some music comes down to several critical obstacles that normal users will never be able to solve, nor should they: 1) The inclusion of undocumented third-party sources 2) Package conflicts in the unofficial software channels 3) Practical inability to search for relevant content 4) Missing dependencies for core functionality 5) Even with the right codecs provided, the default music player cannot play MP3 songs. All of these are the state in which Leap ships and eventually delivers the multimedia experience to whoever is brave and willing enough, with partial, missing and inadequate, downright dangerous results.

I disagree with the conclusions on that story. The entire thing reminded me of the normal users were doing to make things work on their Windows 95 and 98 computers. Did that person use a computer back in the late 90s? Did he forget about codec hell?

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