KB3000850 - BIG update - Windows 8.1.2?

[dencorso]

@NoelC: Please don't let yourself get annoyed by it and, instead, take it constructively, because the issue of bumping is really a somewhat philosophical one... please do read more musings about it in the thread: On Bumping ...

 

While I do think that sucessive additions to a post should be added to the same post (as long as nobody replies to it in the meantime), separated by a blank line, and marked, if necessary, as "Later edit I:" or Later addition I:", then "Latter addition II:", etc. Now, when the post becomes overlong, moving on to a second post following is acceptable, of course, but in general not in the same day. Then again, there are many conceivable warranted exceptions to this rule-of-thumb, for sure, and your two posts just above this one are such a case, since there was a clear change of subject between then, that does justify the break.

 

Cheers!

[jaclaz]

If I may, there is a "side issue" (that may represent a good or a bad thing, beauty is always in the eye of the beholder).

AFAIK if you edit a post, no notification is sent.

When you make a new post a notification is sent (or should be sent) to people that subscribed to that topic or that chose to be notified about new posts generally.

On one hand, an edit may pass "unseen", on the other two or more posts by the same user may annoy the recipient of the notification.

 

In a nutshell, you never do the right thing , though it is generally accepted that there should never be two consecutive posts by the same user on the same post, there may well be exceptions, as an example when replying to different previous posts, and you quote the one or the other in separate posts, to reply to each of them separately or when, though on the same thread the contents of the posts are related to different things that are better kept separated, as this will help later to reference the "right" post, but using the board (with several posts one after the other in a short period of time) like it was a notes book to jolt down experiences in real time or so is maybe a tadbit stretching the "normal", "intended" use.

 

Imagine that instead of a board it was a blog.

Would you add information editing the blog "main" article or post your new findings in the "comments" section?

 

In this particular case, however, it seems to me more like a "twitter use" of the board

 

 

jaclaz

Edited November 20, 2014 by jaclaz

[NoelC]

Points taken (and you'll note I did edit the post following the first request to do so).

 

We just remember to thank our favorite Gods for life being good when talking about the subtleties of forum use can occupy a noticeable part of our days. 

 

-Noel

[ralcool]

It is all a little bit like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

 

Never seen a train wreck.. might call my brother.

[blackps]

After searching for fix,the fix for my was uninstalling Avast and problem was fixed.

[Kelsenellenelvian]

Hey Noel? I have a question you might be able to answer. 

 

Since they started making updates mandatory (I know this one wasn't) How many of the last 6 months of win8 updates have ultimately had major issues? I mean system breaking issues for people getting them,.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Kelsenellenelvian

[NoelC]

That's a bit tough to answer...  I'd have to ask, "For whom?"  For a large number of people?

 

From my perspective the real problems I can remember personally experiencing with Windows Updates this year are:

 

• My servicing database going corrupt, which I corrected with a DISM command.  I can imagine this kind of thing probably compounded most folks' trouble with subsequent updates, as I doubt many do SFC checks regularly and the corruption remained.
    
• The incompatibility of Avast antivirus with the KB3000850 November Roll-Up last night on my test VM.  Once I got past that (and I've been looking for an excuse to remove Avast anyway as it is also a train wreck in progress) I haven't had any problems.  I worked successfully with KB3000850 installed on my main workstation all day today.

 

From someone's perspective, somewhere, I believe every update must have had a downside.  People do odd things with their computers, install junkware, screw up configurations...

 

But widespread problems?  How can anyone really tell how many or widespread?  Stuff gets media attention sometimes for no reason, and other times real problems go unheralded.  We certainly can't derive much from online complaints...  Someone's always complaining about a problem they have somewhere.  Sometimes a lot of folks are vocal about things, while still a majority of folks aren't having problems.  I have heard that there are Avast users for whom KB3000850 hasn't broken a thing.

 

Thing is, trust in updates - like trust in anything - is built up slowly over time, and can be lost easily.

 

It really boils down to this:  Is Microsoft adding value for you by changing your software after you have put it in place, or are they causing loss of value by screwing things up.  My own personal judgement is that they're still adding value for me, which is why I keep my systems up to date.

 

-Noel

 

 

Edit:

 

Oh, and I wanted to add...  What's this BS about major roll-up updates being optional?  Is this some kind of statement by Microsoft that they don't want to be held responsible for the problems they introduce?

Edited November 21, 2014 by NoelC

[Kelsenellenelvian]

I am referring to the issues akin to startup\shutdown problems, unstable systems that no longer boot, endless "configuring updates" reboot loops, things that are being blamed on quality control and little testing. (In reference to win 8 not 10)

Edited November 21, 2014 by Kelsenellenelvian

[NoelC]

Yes, I understood that.

 

Peoples comments about quality control, blah blah are probably pretty much meaningless, unless they're actually privy to the testing Microsoft does.

 

As I illustrated, my choice in 3rd party antivirus packages was responsible for what appeared to be an update failure.  Okay, you could say Microsoft should have tested with Avast before releasing the update, but how far should they be expected to go with testing 3rd party software?

 

By the way Avast has announced that they're going to have a fix for the problem by tomorrow.

 

-Noel

[Glenn9999]

FWIW, haven't had any issues with KB3000850 so far after about 24 hours.

[jaclaz]

Okay, you could say Microsoft should have tested with Avast before releasing the update, but how far should they be expected to go with testing 3rd party software?

 

This is a very good question.

 

Maybe they shouldn't , but I believe they all-in-all could provide, at least to the most common/known anti virus makers, let's say the ones listed on VirusTotal, a pre-release of the update (let's say one week in advance) so that the anti virus makers themselves could test those and/or *somehow* whitelist the update.

 

No matter if (in this specific case or in the previous ones^[1]) the "fault" is not of MS but rather of the Anti virus maker, what most people will perceive will be that "Stupid MS update borked my system" (which actually is what happens ).

 

Facts (and not in any way "news"):

• A large user base uses Windows in some version
• Most of this large user base uses the one or the other third party anti virus
• The majority (I would say) of these users have not the technical abilities to solve themselves (if possible) this kind of issues
• A large part of these people use the computer (and conversely Windows) as a work tool, and have more or less serious inconveniences when this tool for whatever reasons does not work or does not work properly.
• These people will perceive issues with their work tool as a failure originated from Microsoft and will grow - even if only subliminally - a form of disaffection to the company and it's products, deeming them unreliable to say the least.

What was supposed to be the solution (Automatic Windows Updates) has over the years shown it's limits, and more often than not caused serious issues, and while it is understandable how extremely rare hardware or software combinations may not have been tested it has become obvious that, given the wideness of issues (when the issues are created) lately, it is clear how the "model" itself is a failed one and something should be done to make it better which at the moment (waiting for a brand new idea/method/whatever) cannot but be represented to double (and triple) check updates and their effects before releasing them, something that seemingly is not done or done properly.

 

jaclaz

 

 

 

 

^[1] Someone may still remember when the SP3 for XP put all Norton Antivirus installed machines (again no matter who's was the actual fault) on their knees, just for the record:

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/118290-sp3-registry-corruption-bandaid-solution/

Edited November 21, 2014 by jaclaz

[Kelsenellenelvian]

How about the sp3 installers that had amd systems that were destroyed on live install too?

 

And now most of their updates are not optional you just have to have them.... SERIOUSLY? I read about a update that is causing problems and I see my system is already beginning install??

 

WTF!

 

There is no quality control, your system gets fubar'ed and they don't give a crap. Do they send someone over to fix a bricked useless system that their mandatory update f'ed up? Do they send you a check for the wasted time and lost data? NO? Hey lets make a new brand of lube composed of salt and lemon juice and call it MS lube "It's what they offer"

 

 

Besides the Norton sp3 one here are 9 more. http://archive.news.softpedia.com/news/9-Critical-Errors-that-Will-Prevent-the-Installation-of-XP-SP3-RTM-Build-5512-85266.shtml

 

Things like this are the reasons why mandatory updates are a horrible idea.

 

If this update was one of the mandatory ones then ALLOT of people with avast would be super pi**ed

Edited November 21, 2014 by Kelsenellenelvian

[NoelC]

 

What was supposed to be the solution (Automatic Windows Updates) has over the years shown it's limits, and more often than not caused serious issues, and while it is understandable how extremely rare hardware or software combinations may not have been tested it has become obvious that, given the wideness of issues (when the issues are created) lately, it is clear how the "model" itself is a failed one and something should be done to make it better which at the moment (waiting for a brand new idea/method/whatever) cannot but be represented to double (and triple) check updates and their effects before releasing them, something that seemingly is not done or done properly.

 

 

What a refreshing post!  Thank you, jaclaz.

 

But uh oh, now we're dealing in subtlety, and modern marketing has made sure that most people not directly involved in high tech can no longer perceive many things at a subtle level.  If you're not hit over the head with blazing color, giant fonts, and sound at 100+ dB level it doesn't exist.

 

I'm glad to be among folks here who can still see and hear and derive obvious - if subtle - things. 

 

Speaking of... The Model...

 

How many folks besides those of us in the industry thought that this ridiculous concept of releasing things on a much shorter schedule (i.e., a new version of Windows yearly with minor updates every few months) - adopted not only by Microsoft but also by Adobe and probably others - was a %*#$&^ horrible idea?  That may well be the root of the problem with the current Model.

 

How is it Microsoft gets rid of the upper-management who thought of such stupidity, but can't let go of the stupidity itself?

 

-Noel

 

 

 

 

 

 

SERIOUSLY? I read about a update that is causing problems and I see my system is already beginning install??

 

I'd suggest changing the Windows Update settings so that it does NOT install things on its own.  That's doable with every version except Windows 10 TP (Toilet Paper edition).

 

-Noel

 

 

 

 

 

borked

 

By the way, near as I can tell, Avast has not yet released their fix they promised for this morning.

 

-Noel

Edited November 21, 2014 by NoelC

[Dave-H]

Has anyone actually managed to install this update?

 

I have two Windows 8.1 Pro installations, one 32 bit and the other 64 bit, and I cannot get this update to install on either machine.

It downloads OK, and then spends ages apparently installing, then fails with error 80070002.

I've tried with the anti-virus programmes disabled, no difference.

Neither machine uses Avast, one has Trend Titanium Internet Security, the other just the Windows Defender.

 

I've tried downloading the off-line installer packages and installing from them, again no difference.

 

All my research as come to a blank. Most causes of error 80070002 seem to be due to corruption in the Windows Update store, but that mainly stops things downloading altogether, and I've tried clearing it and all the fixes Microsoft suggest, including the troubleshooters, all with no effect.

All it does is lose all your update history, and doesn't fix the problem!

On an off-topic but related subject, if you click on the "get help with this error" link, you just get "nothing found" which seems par for the course with almost all of the Microsoft help links in the Windows 8/8.1 GUI, which I think is an absolute disgrace considering how long Windows 8 has now been around!

[NoelC]

Yes, I have the latest updates, including optional KB3000850, running fine on two systems.  I wonder, though, if Microsoft's servers are becoming overwhelmed...  Imagine loading hundreds of megabytes to hundreds of megapeople.

 

You should check your servicing database integrity.  This command detects and corrects corruption locally if possible:

 

SFC /SCANNOW

 

This command will use online resources (assuming they're not overwhelmed) to try to correct the corruption if the above command can't do it.  After running DISM you may have to run the SFC command above again.

 

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

 

Good luck.

 

 

On an off-topic but related subject, if you click on the "get help with this error" link, you just get "nothing found" which seems par for the course with almost all of the Microsoft help links in the Windows 8/8.1 GUI, which I think is an absolute disgrace considering how long Windows 8 has now been around!

 

 

Agree, 100%.  I have complained to them and have been told they're going to try to document the most common errors.  As though anything short of full documentation of every possible event would be enough.

 

Most event log entry links still return pages like this:

 

 

 

-Noel

Edited November 21, 2014 by NoelC