Does any computer hardware have built-in power protection?

[vipejc]

Does any computer hardware (motherboard, CPU or RAM) have built-in power protection (brownouts, surges, spikes or blackouts)?

Also, is it true that UPSes - specifically standby UPSes - only protect against data loss, but not hardware damage? I've read countless idiotic posts by "master" electricians on the subject. The manufacturers swear all UPSes protect data AND hardware, which I believe is true, because a good UPS has integrated surge protection; switches to battery in milliseconds when AC power becomes unsafe; and keeps the computer on when a blackout strikes, but what do you think?

Edited September 15, 2011 by vipejc

[engmod]

>Does any computer hardware (motherboard, CPU or RAM) have built-in power protection (brownouts, surges, spikes or blackouts)?

No, that cost money

>Also, is it true that UPSes - specifically standby UPSes - only protect against data loss, but not hardware damage?

Depends on the UPS, you would need to read the fine print.

The more you pay, the more protection you would expect.

[jaclaz]

Also, is it true that UPSes - specifically standby UPSes - only protect against data loss, but not hardware damage? I've read countless idiotic posts by "master" electricians on the subject. The manufacturers swear all UPSes protect data AND hardware, which I believe is true, because a good UPS has integrated surge protection; switches to battery in milliseconds when AC power becomes unsafe; and keeps the computer on when a blackout strikes, but what do you think?

Protects WHAT from WHAT?

An UPS will normally do three different kind of "protection":

1. keep the voltage at the same level in case of line peaks (generated by the mains supplier end, typically transient peaks up to 400 V)
   
2. mantain power in case of voltage too low and/or power completely missing (for a given limited amount of time)
   
3. filter high voltage peaks (lightning striking the power line) <-this has lmits and depends on the actual model and on a number of other factors*
   

Some will have as a "side feature" the decoupling of data lines (telephone, fax, DSL, etc.).

Good as it may be an UPS, the hardware ANYWAY gets a (very short in time) "shock" when the thingy "switches".

As always happen there are good UPS's and bad ones as well as good hardware and bad hardware.

An UPS generates a "fake" sinusoidal AC wave converting CC from the battery, usually a "squarewave" read (example):

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ocz-ups-battery-backup,7489.html

Google for "pure sine wave".

*there is something (RARE) that cannot actully AFAIK be "protected" efficiently and reliably which is the event in which a lightning strikes near you building and (wet ground and what not) raises (temporarily) the "ground" potential. When this happens, the ground which is normally and by definition @ 0V may raise (for a relatively long period, seconds, not milliseconds) to a much higher voltage, sometimes enough to fry grounded low-voltage devices

The moral is always the same , use as good hardware as you can afford, protect as accurately and effectively as you can both your hardware and data, but for the latter, ANYWAY, implement the Three Golden Rules:

jaclaz

[vipejc]

Also, is it true that UPSes - specifically standby UPSes - only protect against data loss, but not hardware damage? I've read countless idiotic posts by "master" electricians on the subject. The manufacturers swear all UPSes protect data AND hardware, which I believe is true, because a good UPS has integrated surge protection; switches to battery in milliseconds when AC power becomes unsafe; and keeps the computer on when a blackout strikes, but what do you think?

Protects WHAT from WHAT?

An UPS will normally do three different kind of "protection":

1. keep the voltage at the same level in case of line peaks (generated by the mains supplier end, typically transient peaks up to 400 V)
   
2. mantain power in case of voltage too low and/or power completely missing (for a given limited amount of time)
   
3. filter high voltage peaks (lightning striking the power line) <-this has lmits and depends on the actual model and on a number of other factors*
   

Some will have as a "side feature" the decoupling of data lines (telephone, fax, DSL, etc.).

Good as it may be an UPS, the hardware ANYWAY gets a (very short in time) "shock" when the thingy "switches".

As always happen there are good UPS's and bad ones as well as good hardware and bad hardware.

An UPS generates a "fake" sinusoidal AC wave converting CC from the battery, usually a "squarewave" read (example):

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ocz-ups-battery-backup,7489.html

Google for "pure sine wave".

*there is something (RARE) that cannot actully AFAIK be "protected" efficiently and reliably which is the event in which a lightning strikes near you building and (wet ground and what not) raises (temporarily) the "ground" potential. When this happens, the ground which is normally and by definition @ 0V may raise (for a relatively long period, seconds, not milliseconds) to a much higher voltage, sometimes enough to fry grounded low-voltage devices

The moral is always the same , use as good hardware as you can afford, protect as accurately and effectively as you can both your hardware and data, but for the latter, ANYWAY, implement the Three Golden Rules:

jaclaz

Seriously, no hardware is designed with built-in power protection? Is it not possible, or a common case of the "dummy engineer"? I'd gladly pay an extra ten bucks for the peace of mind. I own the best standby UPS in the business, but power protection makes me paranoid, because I don't know if it's really protecting my invaluable hardware. I've spent too much time maintaining my perfect XP box to have a spike zap my motherboard. It's really idiotic given how useful and valuable computer hardware is to us and them, the engineers don't take steps to protect it from its worst enemy: poor power.

Edited September 15, 2011 by vipejc

[submix8c]

Seriously, no hardware is designed with built-in power protection? Is it not possible, or a common case of the "dummy engineer"? I'd gladly pay an extra ten bucks for the peace of mind. I own the best standby UPS in the business, but power protection makes me paranoid, because I don't know if it's really protecting my invaluable hardware. I've spent too much time maintaining my perfect XP box to have a spike zap my motherboard. It's really idiotic given how useful and valuable computer hardware is to us and them, the engineers don't take steps to protect it from its worst enemy: poor power.

?"Ten Bucks"??? And you have "best standby UPS"?

I googled and the GOOD UPS are more in the range of $150-$450. And GOOD Surge Protectors roughly $50.

Honestly, when the Consumer can buy a Dell (ugh!) Tower from Walmart with Win7 on it for about $400, why would they bother with that so-called "extra $10"???

Also, where would this $10-worth of components fit in a standard ATX case?

In conclusion... Seriously, dude?

(P.S. - certified Electronics Tech, so, no, I don't think so...)

[allen2]

Also the only real good ups are those using "online double conversion" technology but those are usually the most expensive ones.

[vipejc]

Seriously, no hardware is designed with built-in power protection? Is it not possible, or a common case of the "dummy engineer"? I'd gladly pay an extra ten bucks for the peace of mind. I own the best standby UPS in the business, but power protection makes me paranoid, because I don't know if it's really protecting my invaluable hardware. I've spent too much time maintaining my perfect XP box to have a spike zap my motherboard. It's really idiotic given how useful and valuable computer hardware is to us and them, the engineers don't take steps to protect it from its worst enemy: poor power.

?"Ten Bucks"??? And you have "best standby UPS"?

I googled and the GOOD UPS are more in the range of $150-$450. And GOOD Surge Protectors roughly $50.

Honestly, when the Consumer can buy a Dell (ugh!) Tower from Walmart with Win7 on it for about $400, why would they bother with that so-called "extra $10"???

Also, where would this $10-worth of components fit in a standard ATX case?

In conclusion... Seriously, dude?

(P.S. - certified Electronics Tech, so, no, I don't think so...)

My standby UPS cost $85 and is best in class. The ten dollars I mentioned would be the ten-dollar price increase for each component. Actually, a good UPS cost thousands. This is of course a mega-watt online UPS found in servers. All other UPSes have a transfer time, so none fully protect the hardware. Not everybody owns a "generic parts" e-Machine. The power protection would be integrated into each piece of hardware, not a standalone component. I don't know if it's possible, but I'm trying to get some real answers...

Edited September 15, 2011 by vipejc

[vipejc]

Also the only real good ups are those using "online double conversion" technology but those are usually the most expensive ones.

That's right. I mean, other types are good in that they'll completely protect data and partially protect hardware. For a home user, any UPS is a must-have.

[westom]

Seriously, no hardware is designed with built-in power protection? Is it not possible, or a common case of the "dummy engineer"? I'd gladly pay an extra ten bucks for the peace of mind.

Protects WHAT from WHAT is the damning question. Power supplies, even decades before an IBM PC existed, contain superior protection. Even defined in ATX Standards in thousands of volts. Protection has always been required in international design standards. Or how often does your refrigerator blow out every digital clock and dimmer switch?

Generally, protection required to be inside every computer is superior to same circuits found inside a UPS. Other anomalies (ie brownouts) are also made completely irrelevant by such circuits. For example, ATX Standards required computer power supplies to work and even start up when incandescent bulbs have dimmed to 40% intensity. How often is your voltage dropping that low?

Numerous anomalies exist. A UPS ignores most of them. A typical UPS only provides temporary and very 'dirty' power during a blackout. Dirty? This 120 volt UPS sine wave output is 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. They are not lying. Square waves and the spike are nothing more than a sum of pure sine waves (as was taught even in high school math).

How clean is a UPS output? Only those with true sine waves will define it in spec numbers (ie %THD). Does your UPS define "pure" with a number? If not, then its output can be similar to mine. That misnomer is legal. Even wheat bread can be white bread colored with molasses. A title on the bread can even call potato bread as wheat bread. Depends only on the order of words. Subjective claims can say anything. Only fact that matters for a UPS is numbers from its numeric specs.

Those 200 volt square waves and 270 volt spikes are ideal 'clean' power due to superior protection already inside all electronics. Do not use that UPS on less robust small electric motors or power strip protectors. All electronics already contain superior protection - even dimmer switches.

What protection is provided by a UPS? Where are the spec numbers? Especially %THD. How clean is its output? If that is not answered by numbers in specifications, then its 'pure sine wave' output could be 200 volt square waves. Subjective claims can even label potato bread as wheat bread - because the claim is subjective – therefore legal. Superior protection in a computer is defined by numeric specs, for example, that conform to ATX standards.

[puntoMX]

westom, welcome to the forum and thank you for bringing up the most important part of protecting electronics equipment; the sine wave output, or also called by many manufacturers the "pure-sine-output".

---

Any way, why put so much money in protecting just a basic computer? Backup those nice pictures and other media on a second PC and you will be safer . Get a cheap dirty USP that just keeps your PC running for some time.

[CoffeeFiend]

Does any computer hardware (motherboard, CPU or RAM) have built-in power protection

That's the power supply's job, along with the power bar and/or UPS.

brownouts

A good PSUs can still operate normally during "mild" brownouts (voltage being a bit on the low side). And when it drops below that (very low) then your computer will typically freeze/crash or turn off only, not suffer physical damage. Any cheap UPS will take care of that (staying on) for some time.

surges, spikes

Any good power bar (with a built-in varistor for surge supression) will handle cases like this (save for extreme cases where basically nothing will anyway). Then again, good PSUs also have this type of protection and more built-in.

or blackouts

Any UPS will take care of that for some time -- how long depending on its Volt Amps capacity. And when you run too low then the computer can be instructed to shut down.

Also, is it true that UPSes - specifically standby UPSes - only protect against data loss, but not hardware damage?

They also protect against most hardware damage (which happens when the voltage is too high for a reason or another), like most decent power bars would.

Nothing is 100.0000% safe. A good PSU and a decent power bar is a must. Having a UPS too is nice but not strictly necessary. Anything beyond that is a bit overkill for most cases. A $85 UPS will give you some time that will protect against short outages and shutdown properly (hopefully you didn't have any unsaved work) but that's about it.

In fact, I can't even be bothered to buy a UPS myself. Mostly because of very stable power, proper data backups, and also being tired of changing UPS batteries all the time (not very ecological either)