siria

Would much like to know too if it's just a pref! Have a very similar prob, although with another (very old) browser and another map service. But the behaviour is the same: first the map works, but when moving or zooming it soon gets a hickup and is broken, needing a browser restart. That nonsense started only 1-2 years ago. About the same time when the SSL cypher overlap probs got epidemic in old browsers. And some major websites started getting hickups in the middle of a session too and refused to connect anymore, out of the blue. Just like the maps, and only after a restart everything starts working again. For a long time I felt it's rather random and suspected RAM too, and also it seemed like after a restart the servers were happy with getting 'older' cyhpers, but during the session started requesting more and more 'newer cyphers' which I don't have. But some day I noticed: those sites just do not like to be INTERRUPTED while loading encrypted stuff! For example when hitting the Stop-button etc. It's like they wait for some final confirmation that everything encrypted which started loading has also finished, or otherwise they close the door for the rest of session. This theory also suits well to map loading: when zooming and moving around quickly, tiles start to load but before finished I've already moved or zoomed further. As mentioned, that's on another (very old) browser and system and other map service, but that behaviour looks suspiciously similar. The big question is: is that behaviour fully enforced by the servers only or does it perhaps depend from some browser pref too??

@cov3rt Perhaps try asking for help in the Win2000 section...

@cov3rt Actually there are worlds between the official K-Meleon 74 (2014, Gecko24esr, KM-dev Dorian) and KM74-Goanna (2018, engine from PaleMoon26, by Roytam1, aimed at Win2000, KM-shell with lots of extensions and some fixes from Naruman's old KM74 fork) If someone isn't very familiar with the KM history since years, it's quite misleading to see the same number "74" for so very different browsers. But neither version is really usable in Win98 yet, and perhaps never will be! KM74-gecko doesn't even start (initialization error) - at least on my current system, only partly modernised not extremely. KM74-goanna is already a lot better, with KernelEx17 and compatmode Win2000 it can open and display pages, but unfortunately still crashes every few minutes or pageloads. Have a strong feeling that has to do with mouse movements, and crash reports often mention msvcrt. Or it freezes in half a minute when javascript is running (have 256MB RAM). And history doesn't work, cookies cannot be stored, bookmarks broken, etc. Don't know, perhaps it's only 1-2 little core bugs which cause everything else to crash down too, like that bug with the sqlite-version, but roytam has mentioned that debugging on Win98 with KernelEx is extremely difficult. The prob is that the debugging tools are confused by KernelEx. And his target system for this browser was Win2000 anyway, where it runs well already, not Win98. That means my main KM-browser is still ancient KM1.6! (sibling of FF3.5) Wish it were at least KM1.7alpha2, but has a killer bug with macrolanguage injectJS. Perhaps other bugs too. And of course TLS1.2, nowadays 30% of pages give already cypher overlap errors. Believe me, you're not going to be happy with Win98 today. It's a constant struggle, and for many purposes no proper tools available anymore. If you install a fresh system anyway and can just as easily use Win2000 instead, I strongly recommend to use this. Browsers are not the only prob, also lots of other apps too.

I think that's exactly the myth which prevents solving that mystery, by not examining closer which replacements help and which not. The forum-software devs certainly haven't inserted some 'random' rule, there must be some pattern involved. Just an unexpected one, like some overzealous regex rule for preventing dangerous html-codes and data-urls etc. But impossible to figure it out if the content of the blocked posts isn't known exactly to the last dot. You've done several replacements, which could give a hint.

If you do fresh installs anyway and the system isn't crucial to you, by all means use Win2000! On Win98 KernelEx may help lots of old apps to run (especially a browser), but on Win2000 a LOT more are functioning. Most older apps even without needing compat modes. A lot less user stress and waste of time.

So, which characters exactly did you have to exchange in order to get through?? A theory could be that potential coding snippets matter, as recently roytam was blocked from posting the word "data" followed by a double-dot (colons), with or without a blank between. A linebreak between helps, as well as inserting a _ before the colons.

I feel I'm not the right person advising you, because my system belongs to that half of the users for whom this key-creation process is broken with KernelEx17. Not sure why yet, perhaps has to do with my KernelEx-update-procedure, perhaps with this update itself or whatever. But looks like you're getting deeper and deeper into confusion, so let me clear up that I (good or bad) never uninstalled my whole system (yikes!) and never started from scratch all over again. All I did was notice that I can't get KM74-Goanna working with only basic KernelEx452. Without looking up old notes now, not quite sure anymore if it didn't start at all or was 'only' messy, as it still is. Opera12.02, Firefox9 and KM1.6 were happy with basic KernelEx already, and were able to create fully working new profiles. But I need a newer K-Meleon too and need macros. So my first attempt was to update KernelEx as little as possible, with some manual step-by-step method, but that was a complete disaster. Windows didn't even boot! Then tried to revert this again in DOS and do a full update to KernelEx16. Didn't want the newest version yet, because there were already a bunch of postings out there reporting that Kex17 had broken some older apps, even more as Kex16 or 15 updates had broken already. Unfortunately version 16 still wasn't sufficient to get KMG74 working right, so uninstalled the Kex16-update again and dared the Kex17-update. Sadly KMG74 still didn't work bearably, it crashes all the time and can't create this key3-db file in new profiles, producing this security-error and preventing to browse httpS websites. Switching the default skin to an older one reduced at least the toolbar crashes partly. Perhaps should mention, of course KMG74 must be set to KernelEx compatiblity "Win2000" to even start at all. And of course the StartupCache folder in the current profile should be deleted if there are probs after config changes. And sadly noted that yes, Kernel17 destroys half my old Apps too :-( Much later discovered, it even prevents now nearly all my good old browsers to create new profiles! They cannot produce new key3.db files either, it's not just KMG74. But I absolutely need a newer K-Meleon for those stupid TLS1.2 cypher overlap errors... Finally noticed that SSL/TLS1.2/httpS-sites start working in KMG74 after simply copying over 3 db-files from an older existing KM1.6 profile into the new KMG74 profile. I happen to have plenty of old KM-profiles to choose from, but perhaps the db-files from FF or other Mozilla browsers would have worked too, considering they are all very closely related. But I certainly did NOT need to uninstall the whole system just to copy over those old existing files! Yikes... Not even messed with KernelEx again just for copying those files, although I probably should try it some day, sigh. Regarding printing capabilities: am afraid that's still a major prob with KernelEx, but have no printer anyway and not quite sure. Regarding the messed characters: works okay for me. Probably just wrong encoding settings? Mozilla has tons of them as usual, confusing me too. In about:config I have this: network.standard-url.encode-utf8 = true And check K-Meleon menu View>Encoding (default for most websites today is UTF-8, if european languages) Yet more in F2>PageDisplay>Languages (at bottom) And a different setting available for each of various language GROUPS, here: F2>PageDisplay>Language Group (at top) And a KM7X bug: it can happen that fresh profiles don't fully realize they should be english, and instead think they are 'nothing'. This can be fixed by switching the GUI language to something else and back again (F2 > GUI > Language)

I'm also someone who likes to keep settings as strict as possible, but Mozilla's pref jungle keeps growing wildly. Must be about 2000 prefs now, no chance anymore really :-( Here's another video pref you might test, affecting html5-videos: permissions.default.media=1/2/3 where: 1= allow all 2= block all 3= allow same domain Just a general tip in case you're not aware yet (or other readers), the easiest way to test single settings is on the about:config page. Because most changes there work immediately, without a browser restart. And you'll still discover your prefs.js was changed accordingly after next exit, because this is where about:config stores your changes. If a line then has vanished inside prefs.js, that's just because you chose the browser's default setting, since only different settings are stored in the user profile prefs.js, not all thousands of default prefs. To make sure a personal prefs list keeps those lines too, and also keeps user comment lines, and also keeps your own sorting order, and that it can only be edited by yourself, and that those prefs will be enforced again at next browser start, write them into "user.js". At every browser start the prefs in this file will function as startup prefs, overruling any different ones in prefs.js (Just writing this because I wish anyone had explained it to me YEARS earlier)

You find the profile folder in the same place where your settings and bookmarks are stored, wherever that is. KMG74 is preconfigured portable, that means profiles are inside its program folder. My non-portable Firefox has profiles in c:/win/AnwenderDaten(en: appdata?)/Mozilla/Firefox Important, you need to copy over not only this file, but 3 files, all of them extension *.db

Forgot to mention, also important: KernelEx17 update also broke some of my older, native Win98 apps! My impression is that although the default-KernelEx setting was always set 'disabled' on this system, it's now active always and cannot be disabled any more, breaking some older apps... But just a theory, and perhaps I messed up the install somehow.

@cov3rt: That security-error you mentioned for KMGoanna74 is related to the KernelEx version. With the basic old 4.5.2 I never had any probs for several years, but then I needed to update it for running KM74-Goanna, and since that update to KernelEx17 none of my Mozilla-browsers (except retrozilla2.1) can create anymore a "key3.db" file in new user profiles. The mystery is that KernelEx17 doesn't seem to break this for everyone, only for half the 98-KernelEx users. Not sure, but perhaps it's related to installation methods. As I've mentioned in several places already, for a temporary workaround you can copy all 3 *.db files from an old profile into the new ones. Then you can go online and browser httpS sites again (if you have web connection). It's been confirmed by 1-2 others too. Am a bit wary if there aren't possibly any side-effects of 'recycling' those files, but can't help it. Also important, after such changes to delete the startupCache folder in the profile. It will get recreated automatically, with updated contents. But KMG74 discussions are already shattered across far too many MSFN-threads, better to continue in one of those. https://msfn.org/board/topic/177485-backporting-newer-browsers-to-win9x-with-kernelex/ (or in the K-Meleon forum, at least there's a dedicated thread for KMG74, but far less 98 users as here)

No, please keep it public, other people have an interest too. Too bad KM74-goanna doesn't has its own topic, so it's now shattered across various others, very disorganised. Here's one especially for Win9x: https://msfn.org/board/topic/177485-backporting-newer-browsers-to-win9x-with-kernelex/

The error-causing string which roytam1 couldn't post here: https://msfn.org/board/topic/133014-last-versions-of-software-for-windows-2000/?page=11 ...is the ultrashort changelog as in his blog, just 2-lines: http://rtfreesoft.blogspot.com/2018/07/new-build-of-browsers-for-win2000.html Strange that here in his reporting post the reported string is now deleted as "redacted", removing all hints about possible reasons, and my test post containing a modified changelog was just deleted completely: https://msfn.org/board/topic/133014-last-versions-of-software-for-windows-2000/?page=11 At first had suspected the duplicate double-dots (colons) and tried variations of those, because the MSFN software had some bad bug with double-minusses before the last update. But perhaps it's rather the combination of "data" followed by a colon? Could be abused for data-URIs, like base64 images or split-screen URLs. At least in this case. Not likely that all the other bug-posters used "data" too.

http__rtfreesoft.blogspot.com/2018/07/new-build-of-browsers-for-win2000.html

Oh yeah, struggled endlessly too with this ony recently, after updating base kernelEx452 to 2016.16+17 - and no solution :-( For which actions do you get this error, R6016? On my system it was the Scite editor, the old 1-file mini version. Worked for years, but stopped after the update. All compatibilities and disabling Kex for it didn't help anything. Luckily the 'normal' Scite-version still runs. In the end turned out, the culprit is probably the UPX-compression of the mini version. Look on this KernelEx page for "ux": https://msfn.org/board/topic/173233-kernelex-45-core-updates-45201617/?page=28 Also VLC086 stopped working since that update. This is the last official VLC-version for Win98. Also trying compatibilities and disabling Kex for it didn't help anything. At first it looks fine, but opening any menu kills it. Funnily the newer VLC-versions started working instead. My impression is that "disabling" KernelEx in the app properties does not work anymore since the updates, even though 'disabled' was always my default setting as well. UPX may also be the reason why old native-98 VLC is now broken, after reading this (look for comment about 'Free UPX'): https://www.portablefreeware.com/index.php?id=599 Or could it be it's because of my 2-step-installation of KernelEx?? Another forum member who installed both packages in 1 step and made only a DOS-restart in between says he had much less probs. Planning to try this myself too some time, but not gotten around to it yet, and rather fearing system accidents each time.

Thanks for the full packages ABCDEFG! Wonder if this may fix the broken "key3.db" creation in browsers after a KernelEx update, if systems are updated in 1 step instead of 2. Could be, since a fellow K-Meleon user didn't have that key3-prob, who installed both KernelEx parts into a fresh VirtualMachine without a Windows restart in between, only a DOS restart. No idea, will try some time later when getting around. ------------------------------ TmEE Posted February 4: > Then I upgraded vanilla KernelEx 4.5.2 to the release 17 and the old XMplay versions stop working and the crash test starts crashing so the problem is definitely introduced by updated KernelEx. _____ App crashing and CRASH TEST crashing after KernelEx update? Sounds familiar... After recently updating my old base KernelEx with 2016.16 additions my main browser of many years suddenly crashed at startup. So I immediately removed v16 again and updated to KernelEx-17. But the crashing remained. And I needed a KernelEx update for another new app. After lots of trial+error struggles finally found the culprit: => DBGHELP.DLL Looks like this file is contained in quite some other apps too, perhaps especially crash reporter tools. After setting this DLL to KernelEx DISABLED, my browser started again! The dll version dates from 2011-10-02. Funnily this file wasn't even part of the regular browser package, only of its optional crashreporter extension/plugin. Otherwise wouldn't have found it at all ------------------------------ Suggestion: Since the MSFN CRASH destroyed 4 months (mid Feb - 1 Jun 2018), it would be great if a mod or someone can copy over the lost postings again? From here: http://web.archive.org/web/20180516132203/https://msfn.org/board/topic/173233-kernelex-45-core-updates-45201617/?page=32 and page 33.

sdfox7 said: > I am only using the UURollup, I do not have KernelEx installed. Roytam's page has K-Meleon 76, not 77, but yes, it works on Windows 2000 with UURollup. I don't know if it works on vanilla Windows 2000 --------- Great to know, thanks for confirming! Yeah the current builds claims to be something else as they are, in reality it's KM77 beta. Dorians KM76 had an older engine, was based on pure Gecko38, and after cycling through alpha-beta-RC in 2015+2016 was abandoned in RC2 state. As happened to other generations before. The current builds are yet another new generation, with a much different engine, younger Goanna not older Gecko, started with first experimental versions half a year ago and are meanwhile in beta state. Too bad, this confusion will haunt us for years to come. Whenever someone on the web will write about "KM76", person-A will mean the real one, person-B will mean KM77, and both be convinced the other means the same as them :-( Just as a strange useragent addon has haunted as since years too already, which is killing Mozillas native UA functions. Not even a fake global UA is possible. Users just cannot "get it working right" and can't figure out this mystery, think they were just too stupid, while supporters keep telling them wrongly to just change the native override pref, not realizing there's something fundamentally different. And that major prob isn't going to get better because that addon is now included in yet another new custom build. Without any userinterface to get rid of it or even just disable it. Sigh. The prob is that such mistakes are perpetuating.

@sdfox7: just curious, have you tried if Roytams other K-Meleon (not 74 for Win2000, but the future KM77 for XP) works on your system too? The latest version from here: https://o.rthost.cf/kmeleon/ And is that Rollup the only necessary update to get PM27-forks working in Win2000?

PS: keep in mind this special KM74-version comes with the very 'special' useragent auto-switcher deeply embedded. It cannot change the 'global' useragent. Not sure if it's possible at all to play youtube while that extensions is active. Mine is disabled with tricks.

YOUTUBE starts on KM74-Goanna on Win98 First I had only that endless spinning icon too. Then googled for Youtube+Palemoon, gives some good results, like this: https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17443#p127757 Different users needed different solutions, but all seem CODEC related. So messed around with codecs and settings. Finally it started playing. On my box that means about 1 frame/5 secs, exactly like Opera12.02, but it does its best ;-) ==== What I need or youtube keeps SPINNING ===== UNINSTALL in K-Lite Codec pack "DirectX mpg4 decoder" (page3) Roy's Lav codec pack into KM root folder (had it already, just in case / PS: my cpu has SSE2) Useragent must contain "Firefox" media.autoplay.allowscripted = true permissions.default.media = 1 (all) javascript.enabled = true kmeleon.flashblock = false (bug? this blocks html5 too, even if flashblock.html5video.blocked=false) 3rd party scripts can remain blocked. And no XHR needed, no cookies, no referer, no popups, no DomStorage, no Objects A working UA example: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:38.8) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/38.8 (PS: Separate threads for KM and Palemoon would be much handier, less 'disorganised'...)

Thanks for confirmation! And OOPS - of course I meant KernelEx 2016.17, not 2017.16, that doesn't exist at all! So it looks like currently Kex16 works best, will have to try restore that again. Guess I even had tried that version first, after reading about too many scaring "old app stopped working" bugs in the KernelEx thread. But couldn't get KM74Goanna working right, so immediately updated again to Kex17. Now I can't remember for sure anymore, it was a lot of struggling around, also with other broken apps (VLC-086 broken, newer VLC working instead; Scite-editor broken if UPX-version etc). But guess KM didn't work better with Kex17 either, so could only start looking for other workarounds. Meanwhile surfing the web works quite well, if JS is blocked as usual, otherwise quickly run out of RAM with 256MB. Already difficult with old KM16. But the remaining KM-probs seem to me GUI related (especially history, occasional crashes etc.) And just wish this special KM74-version didn't come with so many preinstalled complicated Addons, especially that they were not so deep-embedded that it's not obvious how to cleanly uninstall them. Like ABP etc. For real use of this browser (not for bug-testing) have just used brute force and removed lots of suspicious files and messed with the settings. The very 'special' Useragent auto-switcher in this version is an old pet-peeve, but at least I understand what it does exactly and even can abuse now its js-file to instead load the NATIVE gecko site-switcher, which works great, just still fiddling a bit further.

@cov3rt: > The distribution of them seems to be somewhat unclear / disorganized Disorganized? Oh yeah, absolutely :D Just glad that at least KM74-Goanna has an own thread over in the K-Meleon forum. Just my 2 cents, considering Firefox versus all those non-FF versions. If you're using those backported browsers not "just for fun" on a modern system, but as main browser on your actual old system, there are additional aspects which start mattering too. For example when all those "cypher errors" started to become epidemic on old browsers for 98SE last year, because more and more harmless, public sites now insist to get TLS1.2 or they won't show you anything at all, I knew only Opera12.02 as single fallback browser for awhile. At the time didn't know any other browser to overcome those darn cypher errors yet, and shortly before had not even known a single one. Now since many years I'm happily using old K-Meleon 1.6 (beta2.6, sibling of FF3.5) and am well used to self-help long since. That is, if possible, only if a site-prob is not too complicated. Am not a developer, only a normal user who has learned macrolanguage and bits of css and a teeny bit of javascript (nightmare) here and there. But this combination can go a long way, for stuff like getting MSFN posting titles and dates visible again, tweak prefs and useragents all the time with mostly 1-click buttons, or extract and redirect URLs etc. But then came the "cypher" tsunami and was forced to use Opera12.02 for those sites. Of course glad to have access to github etc. again, but shocked that I could tweak absolutely nothing in Opera anymore! Not even something as essential and basic as the useragent strings. No way, no chance, couldn't believe it. Yes it has an integrated UA-toggle, but the ancient STRINGS in it cannot be updated anymore. Pretty useless. And yes in Opera you can fake the global UA string on opera:config, but for every single change you must type it in there again. No chance for better handling without addons - but those are all deleted and gone! The sad thing is, in the past Opera Presto was highly customizable too, but Opera has extinguished all that stuff from the web. ALL ADDONS are gone! None can be found anymore, and no tutorials either, for user buttons etc. Newbies to Opera have no chance. And in some weeks Mozilla will do the same crime with addons for older Firefox versions :-( As old as one year. ALL xul-addons which work in them will be DELETED from the web too. Having no addons is a giant drawback. And FF-addons are so complicated, even for just toggling a simple pref, it's incredible. And that's where K-Meleons macrolanguage comes in very handy. Even if you have no clue, but for simple tasks it's still 10x easier as writing FF-addons. Users who are able to compare and look closely even may succeed just by trial and error, by copying other macros and comparing, as long as a task isn't too complicated. Or they can tweak skins etc. So my personal preference for browser backporting is clearly K-Meleon, because it allows a lot more self-help. Even if only a bit here and there, not the wealth of current Firefox addons - but what do those help if they are deleted and not found anymore? And also the big prob that users cannot tweak FF-addons themselves, but they'll have to, that's almost their only chance in 'modern' times. At the moment a main prob for KM74Goanna is related to KernelEx probs. To get it running at all in 98SE, I was forced to update KernelEx from basic 4.5.2 to version 2017.16, but something doesn't work right with that. Not only KM74G, but since that update also all my other browsers cannot create a key3.db anymore, except FF2/retrozilla. And although my KernelEx was always set "off" by default, since that update some native Win98 apps got messed too, and compatibility settings don't help. Just hope anyone can figure that out. But of course KM74G itself still has some bugs too. Between KM74gecko-KM77goanna a lot of KM-shell bugs were fixed, but are of course now contained again in KM74Goanna. For example I dimly remember some encoding bug related to utf-16, which crashed the browser in combination with a macro command (iniwrite?) when special characters were used, no idea if the current crashes have a similar prob.

@Mods: Due to the server crash everything between 2018-Feb-12 until Jun-1 was lost, as written here: https://msfn.org/board/topic/177484-server-crashed-lost-data/ But someone made a **BACKUP** on waybackmachine just 1-2 before! Would be great if you can add the link to the post above: http://web.archive.org/web/20180530180748/https://msfn.org/board/ Whoever made that Backup, 100x thanks!! And of course mighty glad MSFN has survived too, was really worried it could be completely lost now :-))) @roytam1: Am very glad and grateful for your work and builds, but it's all the more a pity that K-Meleon postings are completely lost inside a dedicated NewMOON topic. And KM74-Goanna is quite hard to find in the "backporting" melting-pot topic too. Please, consider to make own topics for each? It would be so much handier to follow those 2 major projects in their own threads.

I remember dimly Adobe introduced with vers.23 some fundamental "new generation" plugins, which are very buggy on some systems... Can't remember details, but it was discussed somehwere here in the forum too... Still that java version contains also some alternative "classic" version of the dll's, which jump in and work fine if that stupid "new gen." plugin is disabled (deleted or whatever)... It's only lacking those "new" features, which were some "fully automatic" stuff that's IMO not really needed anyway... NG-version is npjp2.dll, the classiv version is C:\Programs\Java\jre6\bin\npoji610.dll

Have not the slightest idea why, but those occasionally freezing windows I have too, only the mouse can be moved but absolutely nothing else works, not even the windows buttons. All dead. That's in K-Meleon1.6beta with gecko engine 1.9.1.x, but on my old 98se laptop that could be caused by anything, KEx or browser or gecko engine or way too little RAM with way too many tabs open, or some webpage content, or some setting or messing of mine, in browser or in system, and perhaps it would happen with other programs too if I'd use them more often ;-) But there's a little workaround, so personally I don't mind anymore, ouff. Simply switching to another window in the task bar immediately breaks the freeze! Just a quick click on another window and right back to the current one, and it's "alive" again :-) Well, not always, but often.