Building The Ultimate Vista PC

[nmX.Memnoch]

It's not even the shader model support that matters. It's gotta be able to handle all of DX10...which, of course, isn't even out yet (won't be until Vista since it isn't be released for XP).

DirectX 10 support with drivers/software not only hardware (I read it like you say it´s only hardware ), if you think about it; You need a 400 US$ and up video card to run Vista, who the F*CK would use Vista, only the people who spend to much money, use it professional or play games like a hardcore gamer (don’t forget the show-offs). M$ does crazy stuff, but they still thin commercial.

Why do you need a $400+ video card? Do you think NVIDIA and ATI are going to make mainstream cards that don't support DX10? It'll be the same thing they did with their DX9 cards...the entry level cards at ~$75USD all the way through the enthusiast cards at $450+USD all support DX9. They'll do the same thing with their DX10 cards.

And also, if the hardware doesn't support DX10 features no amount of driver magic is going to add that. So yes, it is all hardware. The drivers are just the operating systems interface to the hardware.

Besides, it's already been stated that technically the entire 6x00/7x00 line, from the 6200 up, will be able to run the full AeroGlass interface. Yes, I know they're DX9 parts and not DX10. Of course, DX10 isn't in the current beta so there's no telling if you will actually be getting all of the full AeroGlass features on these cards (small things like the 3D window stacking, animation effects, some shadow effects, etc).

Don't judge it on how the current beta runs. It's beta right on through to the drivers. Nothing has been tweaked for performance yet. Even Solitaire runs sluggish.

The only people who will run Vista are the ones with the "must have the latest!" mentality, rich people and the greasy-haired freckle-faced going to be a virgin at 40 techno weenies.

Some of us who work in the tech industry will have to be evaluating it right away. Fortunately I have both a TechNet Plus and MSDN subscription at work so I can start testing a little early.

A lot of people still use Windows 98 for pete's sake! The tech shop i work at, I'd say it's a 6 (XP) : 4 (98/ME) ratio.

I'm not even going to get into that. I won't even work on a 9x machine if one of my users brings in their personal PC for assistance.

Even if you have a Dual Core or Quad core or whatever, nothing is coded to take advantage of that right now. So the people pay huge dollars so they can feel good and show off their specs, but they're getting almost nothing out of it.

Windows XP will take advantage of both. If you think single-threaded applications can't benefit from running on an operating system that's multithreaded you're wrong. Even Hyperthreading helps in most cases. Take two identical PCs with, for example, P4 3.2GHz HTT capable CPUs. Turn HTT off on one, on for the other. Now run two instances of SETI on both machines...see which one finishes quicker.

This is a common misconception people have because they've been told for years that "applications that aren't designed for SMP will see no advantage on an SMP system". While it is true that the application will see more of a benefit if it's designed for SMP, there will still be some benefit there if it's not. The OS still handles thread priorities. If you have two that aren't specifically coded to take advantage of SMP/SMT running on a system at the same time, they'll run much smoother on an SMP/SMT system than the will on non-SMP/SMT system. Again, the OS handles process/thread priority and will move processes/threads to the other CPU if one is busy.

Hell, today we tested a single cored VS a dual cored in 3DMark '03 and the CPU test itself was 2FPS instead of 1FPS. Whoopie.

It's a synthetic benchmark designed to stress the video card. I think SuperPI is SMP/SMT aware. Try running it and compare the times. I know SiSoft Sandra 2005 SR3 is SMP/SMT aware.

As for RAM, if I am not mistaken, the kernel in XP is designed to manage 2 GBs of memory. Anymore doesn't give you any increase. And you say you're not a hardcore gamer, so why have 4 GBs?

It's 4GB for the 32-bit version (because that's the limitation of 32-bit CPUs without using PAE and/or 3GT). It's 128GB for the 64-bit version, and that's just an arbitrary limit placed by Microsoft because by the time anyone needs that much XP should be long gone (but as you say...there are those who still hang onto 9x for some reason).

I noticed a performance increase with my workstation at work moving from 2GB to 4GB...but then again I normally have Outlook, AdminScriptEditor (uses .NET 2.0), Photoshop CS, couple IE windows, FrontPage 2003 and any number of other applications all opened at the same time.

1TB of Raptors, again is it just to compensate for small penis size or what?

Some people actually need that much space. My home file server has 1.25TB.

@vegettoxp: Go ahead and start laying out your blueprints. Blueprints are much easier to update as the new technologies are released than actual hardware.

Edited April 12, 2006 by nmX.Memnoch

[Zxian]

The only people who will run Vista are the ones with the "must have the latest!" mentality, rich people and the greasy-haired freckle-faced going to be a virgin at 40 techno weenies.

Some of us who work in the tech industry will have to be evaluating it right away. Fortunately I have both a TechNet Plus and MSDN subscription at work so I can start testing a little early.

I'm with nmX.Memnoch on this one. If I can get my hands on Vista for free through my university's MSDNAA program, I'll definately be running it as my primary operating system. If my system can handle it, there wouldn't be much reason not to use it.

[vegettoxp]

I know alot of things are gona change between now and Vista and that's why I am saving money, so when I am ready to get my system's hardware, I will have all the information I need. Plus I am still waiting on Microsoft to release the Specs on Windows Vista Ultimate Edition!

I just want to be ready when Vista comes out!

[big poppa pump]

The only people who will run Vista are the ones with the "must have the latest!" mentality, rich people and the greasy-haired freckle-faced going to be a virgin at 40 techno weenies.

Some of us who work in the tech industry will have to be evaluating it right away. Fortunately I have both a TechNet Plus and MSDN subscription at work so I can start testing a little early..

Agree! I have been in the tech industry for the past 10 years and have MSDN subscriptions from 2 different places. I have MSDN through my work and another one for my own company. So to sum it up, I'm 31, not greasy haired as I always do a crew cut, no freckles, and oh not to forget I am married for the last 6 years...aka already got laid long before that!!! So, Jeremy, if you still keep thinking what you said above, you really need to get outside more.

1TB of Raptors, again is it just to compensate for small penis size or what?

Some people actually need that much space. My home file server has 1.25TB.

@Jeremy - You do realize that people actually use disk space for things other than storing porn! I have 1.75 TB of disk space on my server @ home which doubles up for both home and business use. I use the server as a server for my mce pc and the extenders @ home. Currently I have over 250 DVD movies and 200+ divx movies archived in the server as I find this much easier than to insert a DVD every time I want to watch a movie.

So guess what! I have the best of both worlds - I have a s**tload of disk space and I have a big penis too!!!

[Jeremy]

Big Penis, it is referred to as either a joke or sarcasm.

i admit it is a bit of initial prejudice towards the common misguided/ill-informed noob, but people don't hesitate to justify themselves, which is fine.

Anyway, all I am saying is that when it comes to the general user and not intelligent techies, they will either stick with a non-bloated OS and never hear of nLite, get Vista and complain about it, which is easy considering the minimum RAM needed, or spend thousands of dollars putting together a new rig to accomodate it.

[vegettoxp]

Jeremy my man, I know what nLite is and I use it for XP myself.

Anyway, all I am saying is that when it comes to the general user and not intelligent techies, they will either stick with a non-bloated OS and never hear of nLite, get Vista and complain about it, which is easy considering the minimum RAM needed, or spend thousands of dollars putting together a new rig to accomodate it.

I do know enough to know what the hell I am doing? I don't know what your problem is, but if you got one, lets hear it. I am building this power house beacsue I want to, not because I don't know what the hell I am doing? I have build a lot of computers in my life. And I am not listening to Microsoft on How to build me my Power House. I wanna build it becasue I like Windows Vista and I like to work with the latest Technology. I am spending my $$, not yours.

So Clam down man!

[ripken204]

lol, vegettoxp, dont take any offense from him, he just acts that way sometimes. now i wanted to build a powerhouse amd system and i did, but that was b/c my old comp rly sucked and i didnt want to wait another year. if u can wait then wait, i fully support you going either amd or intel, but since amd will be using ddr2 in their new socket, there may be a huge increase in performance or there may not.

[vegettoxp]

THX a lot ripken204

And yes, I am gona wait untill oct or nov before I start shopping!

[Jeremy]

First of all, I was calm as can possibly be when I typed that. Second of all, i wasn't even referring to you in my post, I was speaking from a "mass" perspective. If you need 1.5TB and want the latest os, power to you.

[vegettoxp]

don't worry Jeremy, I Am cool!

[Jeremy]

Who said I was worried about anything?

[-I-]

here i ask myself, currently AMD has its Opteron clocked at 2.4 ghz. (i know that people have managed it a 3.5ghz) its a perfect 64bit chip with good bus speads and 1mb L2cash per core (it has 2),

its running from a 933 (realy ell-cheapo (but true-power) mother board,

so why didn't i see it come bye in this thread...

by the way, most revieuws are quite positive about conrou, but i WILL cost WAY to mutch.

and to those who though the 65nm AMD will rock the house, - the wont, its exact copy of the curring cpu (but smaller, and uses a little less power),

the one chip that would maybe put its wage in tha scale for AMD probebly is based on the AM2 socket ...

dont get my wrong at this point i prefer amd WAY over Intel, but the conrou is a real pain for amd to beat....

btw so is the intel Celeron M 420, (for its price range of +/- $125 that is).

[ripken204]

so ur suggesting an opteron for him? i have an opteron 170 and i love it. but i am suggesting for him to wait, thats all.

[nmX.Memnoch]

by the way, most revieuws are quite positive about conrou, but i WILL cost WAY to mutch.

No it won't. The Inq may not get everything right, but they're usually spot on with their pricing.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31126

The E6700, which is a 2.67GHz chip with 4MB of cache and a 1066 front side bus will cost $529 while the E6600, a 2.40GHz version will cost $315. The other two members of the Intel Cointreau family have 2MB of cache apiece, with the E6400 (2.13GHz) costing $240, while the E6300 (1.86GHz) will cost $210.

$315 for the 2.4GHz version of 4MB cache? Count me in...

I've been seeing some really nice overclocks on them too (that link shows the 2.13GHz version reaching 3.1GHz and pulling off Super Pi 1M in 16 seconds).

Also, the Xeon version, which normally uses more power than the desktop version, is said to be somewhere in the 80W power envelope.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31131

Edited April 22, 2006 by nmX.Memnoch

[puntoMX]

@ nmX.Memnoch

"And also, if the hardware doesn't support DX10 features no amount of driver magic is going to add that. So yes, it is all hardware. The drivers are just the operating systems interface to the hardware."

You are wrong on that, drivers can simulate features that isn’t supported by the hardware it self. Look at the DirectX 8.1 cards that run DirectX 9.0 games for example .