is windows vista possible next to windows 11 on uefi mode?

[jaclaz]

Well, in the link you posted there is no mention of "UEFI HDD" nor of "normal HDD".

https://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/select-boot-device-on-uefi-bios/

For all it matters, your motherboard firmware can call your hard disk "Goofy" and an external USB one "Mickey Mouse", and as well you are perfectly free to call them whatever you like..

In any case a hard disk is a hard disk and it can be either MBR or GPT partitioned, the whole point is that a lot of people confuses GPT with UEFI (like you did and insist on doing) , whilst the second does not necessarily imply the first..

When you switched everything to "normal" (in your jargon) you installed the Windows 7 in "legacy mode", as said before Microsoft - in their wisdom - introduced a limitation not allowing to install Windows 7 in UEFI mode on MBR disks, still that does not mean that GPT is required by UEFI.

jaclaz

[D.Draker]

9 hours ago, jaclaz said:

Well, in the link you posted there is no mention of "UEFI HDD" nor of "normal HDD".

https://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/select-boot-device-on-uefi-bios/

For all it matters, your motherboard firmware can call your hard disk "Goofy" and an external USB one "Mickey Mouse", and as well you are perfectly free to call them whatever you like..

In any case a hard disk is a hard disk and it can be either MBR or GPT partitioned, the whole point is that a lot of people confuses GPT with UEFI (like you did and insist on doing) , whilst the second does not necessarily imply the first..

When you switched everything to "normal" (in your jargon) you installed the Windows 7 in "legacy mode", as said before Microsoft - in their wisdom - introduced a limitation not allowing to install Windows 7 in UEFI mode on MBR disks, still that does not mean that GPT is required by UEFI.

jaclaz

It's Microsoft jargon, motherboard manufacturers closely follow the nouveau English, it's like here at MSFN, no actual block function, but "ignore".

Lemme help the new fella, here's the right Microsoft link.

"UEFI/GPT-based hard drive ..." It's what they call now inside many (if not all) newer motherboards. What was the newest mobo you had recent encounters with, jaclaz?

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/configure-uefigpt-based-hard-drive-partitions?view=windows-11

[jaclaz]

"UEFI/GPT-based hard drive" makes sense (particularly in MS jargon).

"UEFI HDD" (particularly when compared with "normal HDD") makes none.

jaclaz

[D.Draker]

5 hours ago, jaclaz said:

"UEFI/GPT-based hard drive" makes sense (particularly in MS jargon).

"UEFI HDD" (particularly when compared with "normal HDD") makes none.

jaclaz

In all modern MOBOs it's called "UEFI hard disk drive", not "UEFI/GPT-based hard drive". Some mobos just say "UEFI HDD". Here's a screengrab.

 

[jaclaz]

13 minutes ago, D.Draker said:

In all modern MOBOs it's called "UEFI hard disk drive", not "UEFI/GPT-based hard drive". Some mobos just say "UEFI HDD". Here's a screengrab.

 

8 hours ago, jaclaz said:

For all it matters, your motherboard firmware can call your hard disk "Goofy" and an external USB one "Mickey Mouse", and as well you are perfectly free to call them whatever you like..

jaclaz

[D.Draker]

First, it's not my mobo we are talking about, second - it's how MS calls them now. It's how they call them at tomshardware.com.

"HDD not showing up as UEFI"

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/hdd-not-showing-up-as-uefi.2648298/

I'm not sure why such reaction, honestly. I don't even argue with you, jaclaz, many things in modern life don't make sense, but I'm not the inventor of them.

And here more screenshots. Look - "UEFI hard disk". or just "hard disk". I also saw "normal HDD", too! Sue the Chinese then, maybe?

Write a complaint to MS? I'm sure the new guy is also not the inventor of that nouveau terminology.

 

[jaclaz]

Which reaction?

No need to sue the Chinese, but knowing when something is incorrect usually helps in life.

jaclaz

[TSNH]

1 hour ago, D.Draker said:

First, it's not my mobo we are talking about, second - it's how MS calls them now. It's how they call them at tomshardware.com.

"HDD not showing up as UEFI"

In the picture you posted there is a MSI motherboard's bios menu and the UEFI text before the hard disk name signalizes how the MB's software will try to boot from it and does not refer to the hard disk itself for which you will get both boot options regardless of whether this hard drive contains efi or lecagy bootloader (or none).

Edited August 21, 2023 by TSNH

[D.Draker]

10 hours ago, TSNH said:

In the picture you posted there is a MSI motherboard's bios menu and the UEFI text before the hard disk name signalizes how the MB's software will try to boot from it and does not refer to the hard disk itself for which you will get both boot options regardless of whether this hard drive contains efi or lecagy bootloader (or none).

This is your theory, There's no punctuation marks, nothing that would support it.

Microsoft calls them "UEFI/GPT-based hard drive", motherboard manufactures remove "/gpt-based" and it becomes just "UEFI HDD", "UEFI CD" and so on.

You're not agree with the new, official MS terminology? Sue them. While at it, don't forget to deal with the Chinese, for their poor English.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/configure-uefigpt-based-hard-drive-partitions?view=windows-11

[Saxon]

According to Microsoft,

"The GUID Partition Table (GPT) was introduced as part of the UEFI Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) initiative."

And Microsoft suggests to learn about it.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/windows-and-gpt-faq?view=windows-11

[jaclaz]

Sure. 

GPT is "a part of" "UEFI", as well as MBR, again, that is the whole point.

Microsoft decided to "narrow" the UEFI specifications, see in the article:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/windows-and-gpt-faq?view=windows-11

Quote

GPT Disks and ESPs

No, MBR disks can also have ESPs. UEFI specifies booting from either GPT or MBR. The ESP on an MBR disk is identified by partition type 0xEF. However, Windows does not support booting UEFI from MBR disks or 0xEF partitions.

As often happens with Microsoft, this is a half lie, as - at least up to 7 - it is possible to boot in UEFI mode from MBR disks with a few "tricks":

https://msfn.org/board/topic/184850-is-windows-vista-possible-next-to-windows-11-on-uefi-mode/?do=findComment&comment=1250504

Now,. is it "smart" to boot from a MBR disk a Windows system that is officially not supported?

Certainly not, as you have to add to the artificial limitations created by MS as heaven only knows which kind of deviations from the standard specifications were introduced by the various motherboard manufacturers in their UEFI implementations and what not.

As well, is it "smart" to boot in BIOS mode from a GPT (hybridized or using one of the other loader tricks) disk?

No, but it may be needed/useful in some cases.

jaclaz

 

.

[Tripredacus]

Quote

Windows does not support booting UEFI from MBR disks or 0xEF partitions.

I doubt it has anything to do with Windows. The EFI bootloader hands off to Windows and I'm fairly certain that Windows itself is agnostic to which bootloader was actually used. Especially since Windows is not an EFI application, it is still just the same x86 or amd64 binary that the bootloader chains to no matter which bootloader is being used.

The previous example I gave relates to nothing that Microsoft or Windows does, but rather how firmwares can not follow the spec. Whereas BIOS can't boot an EFI Application because it doesn't know what it is, UEFI is supposed to only boot EFI applications. Obviously there are various situations where you can boot a legacy bootloader under UEFI but this is not by design. I'm also not sure whether or not the firmware or the bootloader even cares about the disk type. I don't think enough testing has been done to actually conclude whether or not MS is telling the truth about what actually works vs not, regardless of what they support.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Tripredacus

[jaclaz]

Trip, you are misquoting me, it's Microsoft that said that on that linked article, and - as said - it is a half lie, whether a UEFI implementation actually respects the UEFI specification and thus considers a 0xEF a valid ESP or it does *something else* (like using a "normal" 0x0B or 0x0C partition ID, possibly connected to the active status of the partition) as seen in the (given) raspberrypi example is a separate thing.

Once the Winload.efi has been correctly chainloaded, one way or the other, how and from which device it happened becomes irrelevant, at the most Windows may decide to not mount the BCD in the Registry or prevent some boot (what MS calls system) device related features, such as hybernation).

Now MS may well decide to not load/mount/access 0xEF ID partitions, but of course cannot make the same thing with traditional FAT volumes ID's such as 0x0B or 0x0C so if the motherboard's UEFI allows to chainload the bootmgr.efi on such a partition the (UEFI) boot will be successful.

jaclaz

 

[Tripredacus]

23 hours ago, jaclaz said:

Trip, you are misquoting me

I quoted the MS quote in your post. Unlike previous versions of IPB, you can't change the text on the quote bar. I was adding to that text, not necessarily replying to you. :p

[jaclaz]

You could well have specified that, as is your post is incorrectly attributing me something I never said.

BTW making a correct quote is possible, notwithstanding the (stupid) new iPB board software limitations:

On 8/23/2023 at 10:32 AM, jaclaz said:

Microsoft decided to "narrow" the UEFI specifications, see in the article:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/windows-and-gpt-faq?view=windows-11

Quote

GPT Disks and ESPs

No, MBR disks can also have ESPs. UEFI specifies booting from either GPT or MBR. The ESP on an MBR disk is identified by partition type 0xEF. However, Windows does not support booting UEFI from MBR disks or 0xEF partitions.

.

jaclaz