XP/Vista-compatible clients for modern email services?

[Mathwiz]

On 2/9/2023 at 7:48 PM, j7n said:

Why have we let Google get away with locking down e-mail and adding so much bloat to it? All the forums and commercial websites rely on e-mail to enable accounts. If e-mail can't arrive, we will get locked out of those.

If you're an individual, the solution sounds simple: just don't use Gmail or other OAuth2-mandating email services like Micro$oft 365. But that can be easier said than done!

I remember signing up for Internet service with Clearwire back when they were a thing. Like most ISPs, they gave me a "free" email account. Turned out to be Gmail in disguise!

Of course OAuth2 wasn't a thing back then, so it wasn't a big deal - but still, that meant Google's AI was scouring all my email and learning all my likes and dislikes, all without me realizing that I was using "stealth Gmail" for several months.

[j7n]

I remember Pegasus was used at my mother's office more than 20 years ago. It goes back a long time. 50 MB is a bit much for an e-mail client if it installs all the crap. I don't get the role of a "web server" for OAuth. Most people won't have a white IP to host a server. I was pleasantly surprised how quickly Help popped up in the installer on my older computer.

Recently my ISP stopped their e-mail service and transferred all customers to a free web-based provider. I can still log in without encryption, but it has some limits attached to it like needing to log in every so often to not lose the account. I guess an ISP today will have difficulty keeping up with demands for "security" and user interfaces understandable to millennials.

[AstroSkipper]

After reading the last comments here, I rather think we have to be grateful for every developer who still supports Windows XP nowadays. So I'm glad that programs like Pegasus Mail, DreamMail Pro and MailNews exist at all and are free of charge.  They are of course not comparable to the email clients available for Windows 7+, but they work. The current release Pegasus Mail 4.80 from 14.02.2022 is still XP-compatible and quite up-to-date. The beta 4.81 is unfortunately not XP-compatible anymore. I extracted the installer and did a manual install as suggested by Dutch support, but unfortunately without success. The main program winpm-32.exe is the culprit and no longer XP-compatible. I am still in contact with the support and hope that maybe this will be fixed in one of the next releases. As we all know, hope dies last. 

Cheers, AstroSkipper 

Edited February 13, 2023 by AstroSkipper
Update of content

[AstroSkipper]

After my intensive research so far, I have come to the conclusion that the convenient use of Microsoft 365 necessarily entails newer operating systems like Windows 10+ and up-to-date email clients. Strictly according to the motto: Saying A means also saying B (translated German saying ). There are still other solutions like Mail Servers or externally adding protocols to email clients, but this is rather fiddling and beyond comfortable. Fortunately, I do not use the email service Microsoft 365, so my email services including Gmail work under Windows XP with existent, XP-compatible email clients. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by AstroSkipper
Update of content

[AstroSkipper]

On 2/10/2023 at 11:52 PM, AstroSkipper said:

On 2/10/2023 at 10:05 PM, AstroSkipper said:

As I already said, fully functioning email clients under Windows XP are rare and not easy to find. Nevertheless, I have found another candidate whose latest version is supposed to be XP-compatible according to the homepage and many other sites.  This is the email client DreamMail Pro. It is available in the latest version 6.6.5.9 from 05.01.2023.
The program comes from a Chinese manufacturer and is of course available in English and some other languages. It is free of charge and actually being further developed. In China, Windows XP is still appreciated, as we know.  I did a short test. It installs successfully under Windows XP and runs there properly as far as I can see in a few seconds of testing. Rather unpleasant is the installer, which strangely can only be opened in Chinese. 
Here is the link to DreamMail's homepage: https://www.cy-email.com/ and its installer: https://dl.cy-email.com/dm6/Download/dmpro_setup6.6.5.9.exe

Greetings from Germany, AstroSkipper 

To force the installer of DreamMail Pro 6.6.5.9 to use English instead of Chinese as the installer language, I created a small loader that does this when it calls up the setup program. It must be executed in the same directory in which the setup file is located with its original file name dmpro_setup6.6.5.9.exe. Here is the download link of my loader: https://www.mediafire.com/file/4bh4pybunlmr5hq/ForceEnInstall.7z/file 
Although some virus scanners detect this file as malicious, it is just a false-positive as always. Use my loader to force an English install, only if you trust me, of course! 

Cheers, AstroSkipper

I installed DreamMail Pro with my self-created loader to force an installation in English (default is Chinese) which worked fine. I tested DreamMail Pro wth two email services, WEB.DE and Gmail. The configuration of WEB.DE was easy and works as expected. The configuration of Gmail was a bit tricky. DreamMail Pro can only work with Gmail if the two factor authentication has been enabled in its account settings to get and use an app password. DreamMail Pro doesn't seem to provide a real Oauth2 protocol as MailNews does. But it works with Gmail, too.  The documentation is only available in Chinese (for non-Chinese people not easy, you need Google Translator). The automatical creation of message folders and their handling by DreamMail Pro has definitely to be improved in the next releases. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by AstroSkipper
Update of content

[Mathwiz]

For Micro$oft 365 mail, OE Classic works; it just has a lot of frustrating issues. And to be fair, DreamMail Pro will probably work if you can get the administrator of your email account to allow it. The other XP option that is known to work is 365's Web interface: https://outlook.office.com/mail.

Win 7 would probably be an easier target. OAuth2 was starting to become a "thing" in 2019. Few developers were targeting XP or Vista by then, but Win 7 was still officially supported.

I found one more that might work. Unfortunately, it's feature-limited (like OE Classic) and the "Pro" version is quite expensive for a single copy ($59.95 USD), although the price per copy goes down quite a bit if you're a company buying multiple copies. It's actually for Win 7 but they say there's an XP version available upon request:

[AstroSkipper]

On 2/13/2023 at 9:29 PM, Mathwiz said:

I found one more that might work. Unfortunately, it's feature-limited (like OE Classic) and the "Pro" version is quite expensive for a single copy ($59.95 USD), although the price per copy goes down quite a bit if you're a company buying multiple copies. It's actually for Win 7 but they say there's an XP version available upon request:

I installed the last XP-compatible version of eM Client (eM Client Pro 7.2.35595.0) on my system in 2019. It's a fully licensed version. I think it won't work properly with Gmail due to its age, but I didn't try it. It needs ProxHTTPSProxy to look for updates (using IE engine!). No good!  Simply too old! The current release of eM Client is 9.2.1577.0 and of course not compatible with Windows XP.  For more recent OSs, it is supposed to be a good email client, though. 

PS: I tested eM Client Pro 7.2.35595.0, it no longer works properly in Windows XP, not even with the simple email service WEB.DE. Uninstalled.

Edited February 15, 2023 by AstroSkipper
Update of content

[mina7601]

On 2/12/2023 at 6:44 AM, Mathwiz said:

OK, so Pegasus v4.80 works on XP, but 4.81 beta requires Vista. Well, at least we're getting close!

Yes.

On 2/12/2023 at 6:44 AM, Mathwiz said:

Makes me wonder if Pegasus 4.81 can be patched as well.

I don't think so. considering XomPie is very old (last release was in 2017), but One-Core-API makes it install and run.

On 2/13/2023 at 3:42 PM, AstroSkipper said:

I am still in contact with the support and hope that maybe this will be fixed in one of the next releases.

On 2/12/2023 at 6:44 AM, Mathwiz said:

OTOH, maybe they'll fix it for XP.

Maybe, but I wouldn't count on that, though, it would be a miracle if they fix it.

On 2/12/2023 at 6:44 AM, Mathwiz said:

(I'm guessing 4.80 does not do OAuth2.)

Correct, 4.80 doesn't do that, but 4.81 beta only.

Edited February 14, 2023 by mina7601

[mina7601]

There's also another thing that I do not like about Pegasus Mail: that after uninstalling it, it still keeps PMAIL folder at the root drive, thus making its uninstaller useless.

[AstroSkipper]

Actually, I wanted to test the email client OE Classic, but ads in outgoing messages and the limit of only two accounts in their free version are a no-go.  That's why I tested IceDove, but unfortunately, it doesn't support OAuth2 or authentication by app password which means no access to Gmail by this email client. That is a pity and therefore not an option for me. But another candidate has long since appeared on the horizon that meets and even exceeds all my requirements. And that is @roytam1's email client MailNews, which is ultimately based on Thunderbird 52. This email client has a real, working Oauth2 protocol that makes accessing Gmail easy. For me, simply perfect and the best choice for Windows XP at the moment..  More about that in the next days!

Cheers, AstroSkipper

Edited February 15, 2023 by AstroSkipper

[Mathwiz]

On 2/13/2023 at 2:58 PM, AstroSkipper said:

The current release of eM Client is 9.2.1577.0 and of course not compatible with Windows XP.  For more recent OS's, it is supposed to be a good email client, though.

I installed this version on Win 7. The only problem I had with eM Client was that I couldn't set up a second account (free version allows 2) that was to be a simple POP account. It kept trying to do "auto-detection" even though I was trying to specify everything manually, so it kept screwing up the configuration. (I wonder if that's what happened when you tried to set up web.de on XP?) So I couldn't use it for that account. It works fine with Micro$oft 365 email though.

It's more than just an email client. It looks almost exactly like the 365 Web interface! It seems to incorporate much of the functionality of Micro$oft Outlook, including a calendar with appointment reminders. And that's the free version!

I wasn't actually looking for something that sophisticated, but since I don't have a working copy of Outlook for Windows 7 (Outlook 365 naturally requires Win 10), at least this client can take Outlook's place.

For XP, I've pretty much decided the best email client for 365 is a Web browser. Serpent 55 works, but the JavaScript engine is rather slow, so Chrome-based browsers like MiniBrowser are probably a better choice at the moment.

[Mathwiz]

On 2/14/2023 at 7:17 PM, AstroSkipper said:

I wanted to test the email client OE Classic, but ads in outgoing messages and the limit of only two accounts in their free version are a no-go.

If it only had one or two of the numerous bugs/issues I mentioned at the start of this thread, I'd encourage you to pay the $37 US for the "pro" version. But with all the bugs, it's just too frustrating to use. Don't waste your money the way I did.

On 2/14/2023 at 7:17 PM, AstroSkipper said:

I tested IceDove, but unfortunately, it doesn't support OAuth2 or authentication by app password which means no access to Gmail by this email client.

The IceDove UI doesn't let you choose OAuth2, even though per @roytam1 the code is "in there." MailNews does let you choose OAuth2. But with 365, its OAuth2 option didn't open my Web browser to a Micro$oft sign-in link as it should. OE Classic (on XP) and eM Client (on Win 7) both did, and I was able to sign in and grant them permission to access my 365 account.

I'm quite surprised you couldn't use an app password with IceDove though. An app password is supposed to use "old-style" authentication that should work with IceDove, or any other older email client like Windows Live Mail.

[AstroSkipper]

7 hours ago, Mathwiz said:

I installed this version on Win 7. The only problem I had with eM Client was that I couldn't set up a second account (free version allows 2) that was to be a simple POP account. It kept trying to do "auto-detection" even though I was trying to specify everything manually, so it kept screwing up the configuration. (I wonder if that's what happened when you tried to set up web.de on XP?)

The last XP-compatible version 7.2.35595.0 of eM Client Pro is much too old. It does not do anything. No access to my email service providers. This version is nearly four years old and that's definitely too much for an email client nowadays. Anyway! MailNews is my best choice on Windows XP and works perfectly with all of my email service providers.  The browser's web interfaces of my email accounts are heavy on loading and sluggish, and a lot of them work only in a restricted mode. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by AstroSkipper

[Mathwiz]

Yes I saw your post at @roytam1's browser thread. As long as MailNews works well with all your email services, there's no reason to try to troubleshoot what might have gone wrong with IceDove, eM Client, or what have you!

Stick with what works. MailNews also supports several useful add-ons, although editing install.rdf may be necessary to install them.

A lot of email services have gone to OAuth2, but most at least offer the alternative of app passwords. I just happened to get put on the one service - M$ 365 - that decided against app passwords, so the browser interface - slow and cumbersome as it may be - is the only choice I have left on XP (aside from OE Classic and its numerous issues).

[roytam1]

On 2/20/2023 at 3:48 AM, Mathwiz said:

Yes I saw your post at @roytam1's browser thread. As long as MailNews works well with all your email services, there's no reason to try to troubleshoot what might have gone wrong with IceDove, eM Client, or what have you!

Stick with what works. MailNews also supports several useful add-ons, although editing install.rdf may be necessary to install them.

A lot of email services have gone to OAuth2, but most at least offer the alternative of app passwords. I just happened to get put on the one service - M$ 365 - that decided against app passwords, so the browser interface - slow and cumbersome as it may be - is the only choice I have left on XP (aside from OE Classic and its numerous issues).

regarding O365, there is an issue filed: https://repo.palemoon.org/athenian200/epyrus/issues/44

and for gmail with custom domain, this PR may help: https://repo.palemoon.org/MoonchildProductions/UXP/pulls/2052