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Cixert

High temperature caution! but the heat sink is cold.

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Posted (edited)

One of the computers I use still has a Pemtium IV Northwood 3.06 Ghz with Hypertreading. I have it set in the BIOS to notify me when the processor temperature reaches 80º C.
As soon as I turn on the computer, in the post the alarm begins to sound. So I open the lid and touch the heat sink, it's completely cold.
When I start XP, if I load many programs, the computer freezes (understand by heat) but the heat sink is still cold.
Aida 64 indicates 80-85º C and fan 2800 rpm. while other computers with Pentium IV Northwood 2.8 Ghz without HT indicate 35ºC and 4500 rpm fan.
Do I have a fan problem or could the temperature sensor be defective?

Edited by Cixert

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Sounds more like you have lost *any* thermal contact between the processor and the heatsink, like if the heatsink has moved away from the processor . :dubbio:

jaclaz

 

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Posted (edited)

@ Cixert

Turn off the PC, remove/unplug the power line, remove the heat sink, clean old thermal compound (on it and on processor), apply new thermal compound, reinstall heat sink, replug power line and reboot PC.  Problem should be solved unless there is a failure on the temperature sensor.

alacran

Edited by alacran

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Posted (edited)
On 6/23/2020 at 2:15 AM, alacran said:

@ Cixert

Turn off the PC, remove/unplug the power line, remove the heat sink, clean old thermal compound (on it and on processor), apply new thermal compound, reinstall heat sink, replug power line and reboot PC.  Problem should be solved unless there is a failure on the temperature sensor.

alacran

The strange thing is that I put the thermal paste 4 months ago. Before, I had another processor, a 2800 Mhz.
At first I had no problems but for 2 months I have had these problems with 3060 Mhz processor

Edited by Cixert

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Posted (edited)

Too much, too less, improper cleaning of old paste or a bad quality paste may cause it.  Also make sure the heat sink is firmly attached to the processor.

Here you have processor specs: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27499/intel-pentium-4-processor-supporting-ht-technology-3-06-ghz-512k-cache-533-mhz-fsb.html

As you can see TCASE is 69° C, where TCASE  or Case Temperature is the maximum temperature allowed at the processor Integrated Heat Spreader. So it means it has been overheated, AFAIR the highest temp during heavy loads (running AIDA 64 stress tests or whatever it was called on those times) I used to get on those processors was about 60 to 62° C

If applaying new paste do not fix the issue it may be time to raplace the equipment, after all that processor and MB are from 2002 or 2003 (17 to 18 years old) and that's a long time.

alacran

Edited by alacran

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When I went to check the paste, the plastic that holds the closure has broken so I have changed the fan and heatsink. At the moment there is no temperature problem, it is around 57º C. and at the moment I have not put thermal paste. But I keep the computer cover open.
I have several questions why the old fan could fail. It sounded weird, like it was forced to spin at high speed and couldn't cool down. I can think of several possible causes.
1-Fan too close to the heatsink could impede an air flow.


2-The turbine in the cover was too far from the fan, preventing air circulation. Here I think that either the turbine is approaching or it is suppressed.
371895758_DSC_0008pequeo.thumb.jpg.7de2137d6c5cfe6d73cf7b2b45900f62.jpg

3-There is a metallic sticker attached to the heatsink.

Is this useful? When I touch it, it doesn't absorb the heat from my finger

105095707_DSC_0024pequeo.thumb.jpg.1b33b6cae211d35f2ab58eed307d331f.jpg


 

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2-The turbine in the cover was too far from the fan, preventing air circulation. Here I think that either the turbine is approaching or it is suppressed.

^ From the pic I assume you're talking about a side panel duct to feed cold air to CPU fan.

A side panel duct is a cool (pun intended) idea for a P4, but unless it is well aligned with the CPU fan it might be doing more harm than good. If it is way misaligned I'd remove the duct and just leave the hole in the side panel.

 

3-There is a metallic sticker attached to the heatsink ...

^ I'd remove that crap from the bottom of the CPU heatsink and replace it with just any decent thermal paste.

 

Buena suerte.

 

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Posted (edited)

Wait a minute.

Which way does the fan spin?

I mean usually (but not always) fans are made to extract blow air from towards the heatsink, not to blow extract air on from it. in this case that black conical thingy attached to the side panel is an exhaust intake and not an intake exhaust or viceversa it could have been (originally) an intake exhaust and now due to the changes in the heatsink and fan it has become an exhaust intake.

My two cents (actually only one):

DO NOT do that, i.e. DO NOT EVER run a processor without thermal paste (or a good thermal pad[1]) between it and the heatsink (it might take some time (from several seconds to a few minutes) to have two perfectly matching surfaces warp and become non-matching due to thermal expansion but it may happen (it may also not happen, of course).

jaclaz

 

[1] which is what you call a "sticker" in the photo, I am confused, you said you had put some thermal paste before :dubbio:(you don't use BOTH a pad AND thermal paste).

 

 

 

 

Edited by jaclaz
Corrected thanks to the input of an expert, qualified Mechanical and Electrical Engineer, inverting the factors, result does not change

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The "metallic sticker" is a soft metal thermal interface. Some Intel CPU heatsinks from around the turn of the century were "blessed" with this extremely inefficient "thermal solution":

Itanium disassembly

That crap needs to be completely removed and replaced with decent thermal paste, specially so when dealing with P4 Burnwood/Preshott furnaces.

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On 7/11/2020 at 10:38 AM, jaclaz said:

Wait a minute.

Which way does the fan spin?

I mean usually (but not always) fans are made to extract air from the heatsink, not to blow air on it. :dubbio:in this case that black conical thingy attached to the side panel is an exhaust and not an intake or viceversa it could have been (originally) an intake and now due to the changes in the heatsink and fan it has become an exhaust.

No, my friend, you are wrong usually the fan blow air on the heatsink, it is a more efficient process than the opposite, at higher pressure and speed of the air blow to the heatsink, the heat transferred from the heatsink to the air is higher, I assume you are not very familiar with thermodynamic.

Also some times there are additional fans at the back extracing the hot air from inside the box (highly recommended on very hot locations) but the cheap cases do not provide them, you have to buy and install them.

alacran

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1 hour ago, alacran said:

No, my friend, you are wrong usually the fan blow air on the heatsink, it is a more efficient process than the opposite, at higher pressure and speed of the air blow to the heatsink, the heat transferred from the heatsink to the air is higher, I assume you are not very familiar with thermodynamic.

Yeah, sure, let me know where you teach thermodynamics so I can carefully avoid them lessons.

There are setups with fans blowing and setups with fans sucking air, which one is better depends on a number of factors, the case, the other fans, the specific heatsink, the type of fans and what not, here the topic is about a PC that has been modified, with (from what I can understand)  changing heatsink and fans so checking that the fan blows in the correct direction (whatever this direction is) is important.

jaclaz.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/15/2020 at 2:08 PM, jaclaz said:

Yeah, sure, let me know where you teach thermodynamics so I can carefully avoid them lessons.

There are setups with fans blowing and setups with fans sucking air, which one is better depends on a number of factors, the case, the other fans, the specific heatsink, the type of fans and what not, here the topic is about a PC that has been modified, with (from what I can understand)  changing heatsink and fans so checking that the fan blows in the correct direction (whatever this direction is) is important.

jaclaz.

 

Well my friend, just to let you know I'm a retired Mechanical and Electrical Engineer and took thermodynamics during 3 years on College.

I repair PCs as a hobby since more than 20 years ago, even long before I was retired. And all Intel processors (wich come with heatsink and fan included into the box) I have installed in the last 20+ years blow air to the heatsink with no exception, but nevertheless if the user changed the heatsink, it usually comes with the fan installed, and if he removed the fan and put it back, it's very improbable to put it on the wrong direction as there is a sticker on the top side of the fan with all fan datas as RPM, Volts, Amperes;  also the holes for the screws are usually deeper on the top side, making almost impossible to put it in the wrong direction, but better take a look to the attached picture of a Pentium 4 Socket 478 Heat Sink. From: https://store.cwc-group.com/pe4so478remo1.html

I remember long time ago the AMD processors were sold without heatsink and you had to buy it separately, but they also came with the fan installed.

alacran

Pentium 4 Socket 478 Heat Sink.gif

Edited by alacran

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Well, my friend, I am wrong and ignorant, no real need to provide your academic qualifications.

jaclaz

 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, jaclaz said:

Well, my friend, I am wrong and ignorant, no real need to provide your academic qualifications.

jaclaz

In no way you are ignorant, I never thought or said that. In fact I have learned many thing from your info and also from your precise links and I appreciate that a lot.  It is only that in this case related to standard Intel heatsinks my info is more accurate than yours.

About the other subject, you forced me to give you that info with this comment.

On 7/15/2020 at 2:08 PM, jaclaz said:

Yeah, sure, let me know where you teach thermodynamics so I can carefully avoid them lessons.

jaclaz.

 

Your friend

alacran

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It has been 2 months with the new heatsink-fan and I have not had problems with heating again.
I have closed the cover adjusting the turbine to the fan.
I am still without thermal paste and without problems.

 

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