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Running vanilla Windows 98 in 2020 and beyond...


Wunderbar98
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Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000. Maybe it varies by manufacturer and model. The ViewSonic E90 CRT just fixed is early 2000s and has the controls. My other two CRTs also have screen and focus adjustments (Samsung SyncMaster 550s, ViewSonic PF790 Professional Series). The professional series ViewSonic is very nice. I don't think you game much but if you come across good drivers for your NVIDIA MX 400 feel free to report, much appreciated. IIRC correctly four different drivers were trialed several weeks ago, all problematic to some extent for games, not regular use.

The clarity (focus) on the recently adjusted CRT is noticeably better. Stayed up too late on internet, videos and games enjoying the 'screen'. Can't believe the difference. The settings were still factory with unbroken glue-gun glue on the adjustment screws. It is doubtful production workers had the time to miniscule adjust with care like someone who owns the hardware. Or maybe the focus drifts over time as the hardware ages. The focus adjustment is very sensitive, even 1 degree makes a difference or if the screwdriver inadvertently moves the screw when pulling it out of the slot. Some use mirrors to make the adjustment in real-time, i was fortunate to have feedback from a family member. Little more to the left, little more to the right, go back a bit, looks good kind of feedback.

Think you're correct about a quirk @UCyborg, thanks for checking with your hardware. Still running the 4-series Linux kernel. On two > 20 year old systems, same Devuan release and same kernel, one system reports 'DVI-I-1', as mentioned, the other 'VGA-1'. The 'DVI-I-1' system has no video outputs on the motherboard and only a single output port on the graphic card (VGA). Strange.

Briefed a long 40 minute video 'What happened to the Computer Reset Warehouse?' from LGR (Lazy Game Reviews), always enjoy their videos. The warehouse is scheduled for shutdown later this year, sad. Mountains of glorious old school hardware. Fortunately it seems most of it has gone to people who still care about this old stuff.
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On 3/1/2022 at 12:56 AM, Wunderbar98 said:

Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000. Maybe it varies by manufacturer and model. The ViewSonic E90 CRT just fixed is early 2000s and has the controls. My other two CRTs also have screen and focus adjustments (Samsung SyncMaster 550s, ViewSonic PF790 Professional Series). The professional series ViewSonic is very nice. I don't think you game much but if you come across good drivers for your NVIDIA MX 400 feel free to report, much appreciated. IIRC correctly four different drivers were trialed several weeks ago, all problematic to some extent for games, not regular use.

For me only stable drives been forceware 23.11. Older drivers got issue with video playback or they keep crashing and newer ones I lose FPS on Star Trek Elite Force. Also I should mention I updated directx to 2006 version and that been only DX9 release that did not hose up my Windows 9x rig.

I would recommend checking card itself with thermal gun while in game. If glitches occurs while card is hot that is reason. MX400 can get over 50c with passive cooling.

On 3/1/2022 at 12:56 AM, Wunderbar98 said:

The clarity (focus) on the recently adjusted CRT is noticeably better. Stayed up too late on internet, videos and games enjoying the 'screen'. Can't believe the difference. The settings were still factory with unbroken glue-gun glue on the adjustment screws. It is doubtful production workers had the time to miniscule adjust with care like someone who owns the hardware. Or maybe the focus drifts over time as the hardware ages. The focus adjustment is very sensitive, even 1 degree makes a difference or if the screwdriver inadvertently moves the screw when pulling it out of the slot. Some use mirrors to make the adjustment in real-time, i was fortunate to have feedback from a family member. Little more to the left, little more to the right, go back a bit, looks good kind of feedback.

here during winter dark comes around 16 so I get many hours of CRT in dark room where colors are amazing. It makes many of my old videos look sharp. Yesterday I was watching Star Trek Motion Picture on it and colors and clarity was much better even compared to my high end Dell Studio LCD screen.

On 3/1/2022 at 12:56 AM, Wunderbar98 said:

Think you're correct about a quirk @UCyborg, thanks for checking with your hardware. Still running the 4-series Linux kernel. On two > 20 year old systems, same Devuan release and same kernel, one system reports 'DVI-I-1', as mentioned, the other 'VGA-1'. The 'DVI-I-1' system has no video outputs on the motherboard and only a single output port on the graphic card (VGA). Strange.

There is not reason to update newer kernel on older HW until it is EOL. I only use latest stable kernel on my Server which runs QEMU and KVM since hardware on it is pretty new. Also I need to ask since might do some testing on my upgraded system does power management work on Devuan for CRT? If I tell CRT go sleep after certain time does it glitch out like did on my last tests? Also which driver you use?

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Thanks for the feedback @Mr.Scienceman2000. Many NVIDIA ForceWare drivers were trialed with Madden 2000 in Direct3D. Frustrating, for me best seems around v21.81 but still can't play the game in Direct3D without graphic glitches.

These ForceWare drivers for MX 400 all fail to properly run Madden 2000 in Direct3D. In Windows 98 SE the MX 200 runs the game fine with appropriate driver (reported earlier).

5.32 Game won't launch (2000)
6.18 Game won't launch
6.31
8.05
12.41
21.81 Maybe best here
21.83
23.11 Sound lockup
28.32
43.45
44.03 Game won't launch
45.23 Game won't launch
53.04 Game won't launch
71.84 Game won't launch
81.98 Game won't launch (2005)

No thermal gun owned but may install a cooling fan at next refurbish (3 year cycle). It's not temperature though, rather driver or other software. Reported earlier trying to get SpellForce running, on same hardware the game runs well in Windows XP using newer ForceWare drivers (query v93), even when pushed to the limit, no graphic glitches.

Installed Directx.cpl for DirectX tweaks via Control Panel, no benefit either. Note the *.cpl needs to go into C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\ (not SYSTEM32, instructions are incorrect).
https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/microsoft_directx_control_panel.html

More BIOS tweaks, no benefit.

Installed and used Driver Cleaner Professional, not sure it's necessary software, seems okay, has backup/restore functionality in case removal causes breakage.
https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/driver_cleaner_professional.html

Installed and briefly played Star Trek Voyager Elite Force demo, runs fine.

Here CRT is preferred too for sharpness and colour where 5 computer and television tubes are used. Only exceptions are an LCD media center (small tabletop) and a netbook (built-in LCD). In comparison my LCDs appear fuzzy. Maybe free LCD giveaways are lower quality but my CRTs were free giveaways too.

Power management with CRT (and LCD) works fine here on all Devuan release used (net installed Jessie, ASCII, Beowulf). This includes Window Manager (Fluxbox, OpenBox) and Desktop Environment (LXDE, MATE). I never mess with it and use default, think black screen after 10 minutes.

The 'nouveau' driver is used with NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 400 running Xorg with OpenBox. If running a Window Manager create an /etc/X11/xorg.conf file and use the 'cvt' command to get a modeline for your resolution and refresh rate. Note i don't game in GNU/Linux, graphics work fine for window management, videos and web browsing.

Section "Monitor"
Identifier "Monitor0"
Modeline "1152x864_60.00" 81.75 1152 1216 1336 1520 864 867 871 897 -hsync +vsync
Option "PreferredMode" "1152x864"
EndSection

Section "Device"
Identifier "Card0"
Driver "nouveau"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Device "Card0"
Monitor "Monitor0"
EndSection
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On 3/5/2022 at 8:09 AM, Wunderbar98 said:

Many NVIDIA ForceWare drivers were trialed with Madden 2000 in Direct3D. Frustrating, for me best seems around v21.81 but still can't play the game in Direct3D without graphic glitches.

They don't call it the dark ages of graphics drivers for no reason. Does Madden 2000 have Glide renderer? There seems to be a consensus if a game from the era has both D3D and Glide renderers, Glide will work better. Of course that requires either one of those 3Dfx accelerator cards (zero experience with those) or a wrapper (only have experience on newer hardware with them, where they generally work OK).

On 3/2/2022 at 2:04 PM, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

There is not reason to update newer kernel on older HW until it is EOL. I only use latest stable kernel on my Server which runs QEMU and KVM since hardware on it is pretty new.

I use whatever kernel comes with the distribution. Not sure what I'd consider "the ultimate distribution", in my limited experience; Debian - too conservative, Manjaro - too bleeding edge. Not sure I'd gain anything by trying others, desktop Linux is desktop Linux. Ubuntu is popular enough so could go ask about some aspect of it on some some forum if I really had to. Some say it's crap, but I don't really care.

Forums like these are of limited usability in my experience, you mostly have to fend for yourself or just live with it if you can't solve something.

Late edit: What I really tried to convey with previous statement, interesting questions popup at times that never get answered.

Edited by UCyborg
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Thanks for the Glide wrapper suggestion @UCyborg. I had previous wrapper success with other games. Even though Madden 2000 supports Glide none worked, trialed four (dgVoodoo, GlideWrapper, nGlide, OpenGlide). If this wasn't a multi-boot i would swap the card, an old ATI may be more successful. Rest in peace my favourite old Voodoo Banshee.

Run what you want, don't matter. There are sometimes significant differences between distributions, just like Windows releases. I'm thankful for those who post on forums, helped me solve lots of problems. Agree need to do your own homework to solve the issue and many threads leave more questions than answers.

Came across an interesting forum post regarding BIOS cache settings. Enabling cache always seemed sensible, this post makes me think otherwise. Since Windows 9x would benefit from as much stability as possible i've disabled the relevant settings. Thus far no problems or performance issues on any of the multi-OS booted. Quote pasted below in case link dies.

---
System/Video BIOS Cacheable (BIOS options)...

System BIOS Cacheable

This feature is only valid when the system BIOS is shadowed. It enables or disables the caching of the system BIOS ROM at F0000h-FFFFFh via the L2 cache. This greatly speeds up accesses to the system BIOS. However, this does not translate into better system performance because the OS does not need to access the system BIOS much.

As such, it would be a waste of L2 cache bandwidth to cache the system BIOS instead of data that are more critical to the system's performance. In addition, if any program writes into this memory area, it will result in a system crash. So, it is recommended that you disable System BIOS Cacheable for optimal system performance.


Video BIOS Cacheable

This feature is only valid when the video BIOS is shadowed. It enables or disables the caching of the video BIOS ROM at C0000h-C7FFFh via the L2 cache. This greatly speeds up accesses to the video BIOS. However, this does not translate into better system performance because the OS bypasses the BIOS using the graphics driver to access the video card's hardware directly.

As such, it would be a waste of L2 cache bandwidth to cache the video BIOS instead of data that are more critical to the system's performance. In addition, if any program writes into this memory area, it will result in a system crash. So, it is recommended that you disable Video BIOS Cacheable for optimal system performance.

Video RAM Cacheable

This feature enables or disables the caching of the video RAM at A0000h-AFFFFh via the L2 cache. This is supposed to speed up accesses to the video RAM. However, this does not translate into better system performance.

Many graphics cards now have a RAM bandwidth of 5.3GB/s (128bit x 166MHz DDR) and that number is climbing constantly. Meanwhile, SDRAM's bandwidth is still stuck around 0.8GB/s (64bit x 100MHz) or at most 1.06GB/s (64bit x 133MHz) if you are using a PC133 system.

Now, although a Pentium !!! 650 may have a L2 cache bandwidth of about 20.8GB/s (256bit x 650MHz), it makes more sense to cache the really slow system SDRAM instead of the graphics card's RAM.

Also note that caching the video RAM doesn't make much sense even with the Pentium !!!'s high L2 cache bandwidth. This is because the video RAM communicates with the L2 cache via the AGP bus which has a maximum bandwidth of only 1.06GB/s using the AGP4X protocol. Actually, that bandwidth is halved in the case of the L2 cache caching the graphics card's RAM because data has to pass in two directions.

In addition, if any program writes into this memory area, it will result in a system crash. So, there's very little benefit in caching the video card's RAM. It would be much better to use the processor's L2 cache to cache the system SDRAM instead. It is recommended that you disable Video RAM Cacheable for optimal system performance.

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/system-video-bios-cacheable-bios-options.392507/
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LoL - Only the first megabyte of memory is affected. Nobody will ever see better performance or stability by disabling those BIOS features. But those with very slow main memory will benefit from them being enabled in real DOS, while Windows is loading, and when accessing 16-bit drivers or disks in MS-DOS compatibility mode.

 

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On 3/2/2022 at 2:04 PM, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

here during winter dark comes around 16 so I get many hours of CRT in dark room where colors are amazing. It makes many of my old videos look sharp. Yesterday I was watching Star Trek Motion Picture on it and colors and clarity was much better even compared to my high end Dell Studio LCD screen.

Have you ever owned a LCD screen made by LG? When we still had a CRT computer screen at home, nothing particularly colorfully rich was run on the computer, but going from CRT TV to LCD one striked me as a clear upgrade. Don't think I ever knew exact models, but a smaller TV was from GoldStar (South Korean, later became LG) and a bigger one was from Gorenje (that's Slovenian company), the latter were quite common in Slovenian homes in its time.

Years ago, the only thing regarding about picture quality I was reading about that CRT might be better at is black color reproduction. Though the whole CRT technology left "errr" impression on my young-self, bulky, weird noises, stuff coming out of the back - seriously, I have some special stone from the time, I don't think anyone told me what it was, but it was supposed to attract "stuff" coming out the back of CRT screen when you put it at the back on top. And something brownish indeed accumulated on it.

I haven't seen one such screen live in over a decade. Also recently came across a local company that refurbishes older computers. They collect older computer equipment, but they explicitly don't accept CRTs.

My current main screen is LG W2361V-PF from 2009 and I dare to say it's a bomb, nice colors, 2 ms response time. Second is Samsung SyncMaster 710N from 2004, 12 ms response time, this one still talks analogoue, have to use DVI to VGA adapter, it's possible to get misaligned picture until it's auto-aligned and it remembers new setting. It may need re-adjusting if you plug it to a different GPU, even if you use same resolution as before. On newer screen, picture is properly aligned automagically. The older screen is OK for "office stuff", but colors are noticeably kinda off in movies, games and such.

Edited by UCyborg
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18 hours ago, UCyborg said:

Have you ever owned a LCD screen made by LG?

I used to have LG display that had startup music. It was 20" 1650x1050 computer monitor. It was very good until I gave it away to one relative who needed it more than me.

19 hours ago, UCyborg said:

When we still had a CRT computer screen at home, nothing particularly colorfully rich was run on the computer, but going from CRT TV to LCD one striked me as a clear upgrade. Don't think I ever knew exact models, but a smaller TV was from GoldStar (South Korean, later became LG) and a bigger one was from Gorenje (that's Slovenian company), the latter were quite common in Slovenian homes in its time.

Years ago, the only thing regarding about picture quality I was reading about that CRT might be better at is black color reproduction. Though the whole CRT technology left "errr" impression on my young-self, bulky, weird noises, stuff coming out of the back - seriously, I have some special stone from the time, I don't think anyone told me what it was, but it was supposed to attract "stuff" coming out the back of CRT screen when you put it at the back on top. And something brownish indeed accumulated on it.

Goldstar tubes were never any best. They were decent at best. Horrible contrast and brightness. Mitsubishi and Sony did better tubes. Most TV/Computer CRT had either LG, Goldstar, Sony or Mitsubishi tube so there was no many manufactures. Apple used Mitsubishi Diamondtron tubes and Nokia used Sony Tritrons for example on their monitors back in day.

I got 17" Mitsubishi tube and colors and sharpness beat almost any LCD.

19 hours ago, UCyborg said:

My current main screen is LG W2361V-PF from 2009 and I dare to say it's a bomb, nice colors, 2 ms response time. Second is Samsung SyncMaster 710N from 2004, 12 ms response time, this one still talks analogoue, have to use DVI to VGA adapter, it's possible to get misaligned picture until it's auto-aligned and it remembers new setting. It may need re-adjusting if you plug it to a different GPU, even if you use same resolution as before. On newer screen, picture is properly aligned automagically. The older screen is OK for "office stuff", but colors are noticeably kinda off in movies, games and such.

My Dell Ultrasharp 24" is sure great but cant beat high end CRT. It got short response time, got Composite, Component, Dvi, VGA, S-video ports, internal usb hub and memory card reader. I got it from friend for free since he did not need it.

I got 3 monitors on my "modern setup" since from time to time to need use multi screen. For example if I am messing with radio stuff I might have adsbScope open on one monitor (to show any planes nearing airport) and HDSDR on other Window to tune in for radio frequency. It is kinda hobby I got and I can do it with cheapo tv tuner.

Here is pic how I configured 3 screens. Two are in Nvidia 750 1gb and one is on intel iGPU. What I find interesting if Windows would BSOD for some reason third screen on iGPU wont blank and keep buffer from image there even system is halted.

screen.gif.0a2d5771f095345f93fb81dc3cb45ac3.gif

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I noticed this today so maybe it is time to say goodbye on this topic too.

ripmsfn.GIF

(legacy compatible link https://msfn.org/board/uploads/monthly_2022_03/ripmsfn.GIF.1ce928b84224ae2e84f621f8b12b401d.GIF)

 

This topic and subforum has been lifesaver for my poor Pentium 3 800. Before it was system I mostly used to play few old games since was unaware from it modern capabilities on 98 side. Then I found Retrozilla project that gave it little boost but I was unware how use it proper. Then I ended up finding MSFN and it was time when my 9x system really started breath new life in. I was so happy to use operating system from 1999 and computer from 2001 for modern use. It brought so many fond memories from time when was still child and internet was new groving thing.

Now that bad boy got 866mhz Pentium 3, Geforce 2 MX400 64MB, 60GB Samsung HDD, 128gb SATA SSD, DVD burner, CD Burner, ESS SOLO1 Audio card and I can do email, information search, documents, multimedia and messaging. It is not poor anymore.

So thank you all and special thank for @Wunderbar98 for starting this thread that was kick back to 9x and old hardware for me. I will keep keep Running vanilla Windows 98 in 2022 and beyond and right now I am helping friend to do the same with his IBM Pentium 2 system.

 

I hope donations would revive this board but I cant be sure so I need to stay tuned. I hope it is not over yet.

 

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
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How 'bout Intergraph InterView 28hd96? Full HD CRT screen. John Carmack coded Quake on it in 1995. That must have felt like science fiction back then, at least for average mortals.

spacer.png

https://www.themarysue.com/1995-john-carmack-quake-monitor/

2 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

screen.gif.0a2d5771f095345f93fb81dc3cb45ac3.gif

Hey, your Dell is picked as TV. My LG is as well on XP. If memory is correct, it was a regression in certain version of XP NVIDIA driver.

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1 hour ago, UCyborg said:

How 'bout Intergraph InterView 28hd96? Full HD CRT screen. John Carmack coded Quake on it in 1995. That must have felt like science fiction back then, at least for average mortals.

I want 7 of those and then large win9x mainboard with enough slots to have 7 gpus/video cards to run 7 monitors on Windows 98. Windows 98 could natively support up to 7 monitors. I seen CRT triple monitor setup on Windows 98 on one place. It was used to monitor production line.

Well I am fine for having one CRT

2112198078_DSCN2170(Small).JPG.b53925ce36673c9efb75e7b92241adb9.JPG

I actually carried that from other side of Finland on train along other stuff. I was visiting friend there and he gave me that. It took seat on train because was unable fit it to luggage holder and conductor looked me strangely when saw that but though it was ok as nobody had purchased ticket to that seat. I guess she had never seen guy with desktop pc, keyboard, 2x CRT monitors and box full of disks traveling on train :D.

1 hour ago, UCyborg said:

Hey, your Dell is picked as TV. My LG is as well on XP. If memory is correct, it was a regression in certain version of XP NVIDIA driver.

it is bug on 368.81 driver. I use it since was first one Nvidia site suggest to 750 on XP and did not bother to change is since it provides enough graphic performance on games

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Thanks for your feedback @jumper. Maybe but the first megabyte of memory is also important for system stability. Seems there's really no benchmark for any of this, end user needs to decide what works best for their hardware/OS/software combination and trial various settings to troubleshoot problems.

Tom's Hardware 'BIOS for Beginners' (2005) recommends disabling System BIOS Cacheable and Video RAM Cacheable with a disclaimer note for DOS.
https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/reviews/bios-beginners,1126-5.html

In 2008 @MDGx recommended disabling below to troubleshoot or correct issues related to standby, doze, suspend, shut down, power off, errors/General Protection Faults (GPFs) and lockups.
System BIOS Cacheable
Video BIOS Cacheable
Video BIOS Shadowing
Video RAM Cacheable
Video ROM Cache
https://msfn.org/board/topic/116153-limiting-video-ram-in-win98/#comment-758306

Tweak3D's 'CPU/BIOS Tweak Guide' (2000) recommends below.

Video BIOS Shadow - Turn this off. Most video cards have no use for this feature and it will probably only cause problems. Performance shouldn't be affected much.

Shadow System BIOS - Enabling this can possibly give a system boost, so we recommend that you try it out. Most likely it will not increase performance significantly.

Video BIOS Cacheable - This setting should increase system performance as well, if your video card is compatible with the setting. However, most newer video cards will not make use of this feature and enabling it can cause problems.

Video RAM Cacheable - Depending on the system, and how fast the RAM on your video card is, and how much RAM your video card has, this may or may not increase performance. This is a good setting to try with older cards, but if your card has a lot of RAM on it, this setting may decrease performance.
http://www.tweak3d.net/tweak/cpu/

Thanks for notifying regarding end of forum @Mr.Scienceman2000, sad, another chapter. In case of imminent shutdown, big thanks to all who have contributed to Windows 9x and this thread in particular. I've learned lots, had lots of fun and hope to run Windows 9x for many more years.

Thanks for posting John Carmack's 28-Inch, 16:9, 1080p CRT @UCyborg.

If you read this @D.Draker, SpellForce: Order of Dawn is 30% completed here. I'll do my best to finish the game and purge all content by the end of the year, then it's yours to lend out again. Thanks again for your generosity.
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On 1/10/2022 at 8:57 PM, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

maybe I did not phrase myself correctly. I meant drive had so much bad blocks I could only use half of it capacity even after did proper wipe using manufacture util. It was retail hdd and was using it on my custom build. At that point I had no choice but try keep using it before was able get money for new drive. Luckily I no longer have to do that.

Oh, if that's the case then sorry for the misunderstanding. And also sorry for the delayed response, I had gotten no notification e-mails whatsoever from this board until today when I found about 15 of them all bearing same timestamp.

On 1/10/2022 at 8:57 PM, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

Windows can convert any printer into network printer with few clicks.

Maybe, but wouldn't that specifically require for that particular machine to be running in order for any other machine on the network to use that printer? A true network printer would be accessible at any time without the need for another computer to be driving it. That is precisely why I searched and chose such model.

On 1/10/2022 at 9:50 PM, Wunderbar98 said:

Welcome back @Drugwash, you're alive!

Belated thanks (see reason above). Alive but not actually living, if you understand what I mean. Just surviving, depending on a couple strangers for food and bills.

On 1/16/2022 at 3:14 AM, Wunderbar98 said:

if someone has a favourite simple and light image viewer please let me know

Not sure how helpful it is but I remember Imagine by Chun Sejin as it has always been embedded with the omonimous Total Commander viewer extension.

  

On 2/27/2022 at 2:13 AM, Wunderbar98 said:

If you run a Window Manager like me then use 'xgamma'

While working on a Cinnamon applet for Linux Mint I noticed xgamma was disconnected with the xrandr settings. After changing values through xrandr, xgamma still showed default values. When the system does use xrandr it would be best to use it to adjust brightness and gamma/color temperature. It's only a personal opinion, of course.
xrandr --help and xrandr --dryrun should offer the necessary usage details.

On 3/1/2022 at 12:56 AM, Wunderbar98 said:

The 'DVI-I-1' system has no video outputs on the motherboard and only a single output port on the graphic card (VGA). Strange.

Most likely the video card contains DVI circuitry internally and uses an internal converter to output D-SUB (VGA) signal. Either the driver detects the original DVI circuitry or the card's BIOS has not been properly configured to advertise the VGA output. This can happen when manufacturers build multiple-output boards and then decide to release them as single-output.

On 3/5/2022 at 9:09 AM, Wunderbar98 said:

on same hardware the game runs well in Windows XP using newer ForceWare drivers (query v93), even when pushed to the limit, no graphic glitches.

Possibly newer drivers work around known hardware bugs or just use different commands that do not produce those glitches. Personally I believe the card is at fault not the drivers, but may always be wrong.

14 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

In case of imminent shutdown, big thanks to all who have contributed to Windows 9x and this thread in particular.

Same from me though hopefully this won't happen, if only to preserve history that newer generations would never know about.
Personally I've already forgotten most of the things I knew (and posted) about Windows 9x, due to bad and worsening memory. If it would be for me to still live some time it'd be nice to have this place to revisit old memories.

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On 3/9/2022 at 4:48 PM, Drugwash said:

...Personally I've already forgotten most of the things I knew (and posted) about Windows 9x, due to bad and worsening memory. If it would be for me to still live some time it'd be nice to have this place to revisit old memories.

<OT>

Yeah, totally get that, it sbeen a struggle for me as well to get though each day without going (totally) insame - oh and sanity is overrated btw :) I (fully) understand having to rely on others for help. 

Hope we remain here as I also look back at old posting and every thing is helpful. 

<OT>

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