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Running vanilla Windows 98 in 2020 and beyond...


Wunderbar98
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13 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

Following @Mr.Scienceman2000's post a while back, ActiveX settings on this system are now hardened too. Some day i would like to go 'lite' and remove or disable most of the OS but that's a whole other project. I remember reading someone stripped a Windows 95 system down to 10 MB, cool.

98lite can be installed and shell can be swapped and ie removed without reinstall. I did so to mine until accidentally hosed up registry when tried remove few old drivers and had last scanreg backup from 2 years ago so broke stuff even more

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
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Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000. If you multi-boot, sounds like you may with GNU/Linux, then backing up a Windows 9x install is as easy as copy/paste, or 'cp -axv Windows_root_directory/* Destination_directory', then if 'lite' fails the system is easy to restore.

The faster Windows 98 system i'm tweaking now is almost fully finished, don't want to mess around. I did, however, successfully do this with another install using batch script based software, not 98Lite. Don't recall the name, mentioned in this thread but today i'm tired. Another 'lite' attempt, on an established setup, wasn't as successful, things like graphic and sound drivers broke. I didn't have time to deal with the mess and just restored from backup.

Please correct if wrong, to me it's best to setup a 'lite' system after a base Windows 98 install, before drivers and much tweaking. Unless someone has better ideas, i plan to try this next time a fresh Windows 98 system is needed.

- Install Windows 98 base system (avoid most extra software)
- Install Windows 98 update patches (i do mine manually)
- Run favourite 'lite' software
- Install drivers (graphics, sound, etc)
- Install favourite software
- Tweak

***

Figured out something else about this forum software. Member signatures only appear when i'm logged in, nothing to do with CSS. Still tweaking my RetroZilla userContent.css file, hope to upload (dump) to the RetroZilla thread soon. Seems to make this forum easier to visualize, some additional globabl tweaks too. Personally i hate messing with this stuff, nothing personal to those who enjoy it. Spending effort getting a single website working better seems like a poor use of time. On the other hand, most 'global' configurations aren't overly useful, they may make some sites better but cause breakage in others.
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@Wunderbar98 Teddy avatar courtesy of Windows 98 tools, most built-in. Working at pixel level, shading and blending, is always enjoyable. Unfortunately RetroZilla can't upload files to this forum, drat, drat and double drat.
- RetroZilla with ImageZoom extension
- Screenshot (Alt-PrintScreen)
- Kodak Imaging for Windows (C:\WINDOWS\KODAKIMG.EXE)
- Microsoft Paint
 

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@Mr.Scienceman2000, thank you for the advice ! Unfortunately I won't be able to install , because that mobo is acting up ! If I set it to IDE mode , it won't detect HDDs with small size (like 160-250GB) , weirdly enough , 8TB and UP are detected !!! I'm not ready to use an 8TB HDD for win98 , lol. I'll search for another mobo.

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On 10/4/2021 at 7:28 AM, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:
On 10/3/2021 at 8:34 PM, Wunderbar98 said:

Regarding your workplace experience, yes me thinks most users don't tweak Windows much and just use it as-is, or maybe workplace restrictions. Shame as there are lots of possibilities.

I am not allowed adjust my workplace computer outside color scheme, wallpaper and sounds. I cannot even run browser not listed on software center. Well I can with admin rights, but workplace policies are workplace policies and I follow them. I would want to tweak my work computer or install my own os, but it is not my property.

There isn't any restricting policies in place where I work, people are just trusted that they won't mess up their computers. I wouldn't go as far installing another OS. Modifications are easily revertible and obviously I'll do it if there's going to be an opportunity to leave before I die...

On 10/4/2021 at 7:28 AM, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:
On 10/3/2021 at 6:12 PM, UCyborg said:

The old Polo apparently has the lights on position wired in a way that only turns on the warning beeper in addition to lights when the key is on off position, not prevent lights from turning on like with newer cars.

How many times you left headlights on because did not notice beep? I did many times. I sometimes forget turned light switch into on position when been driving long during dark and is day when reach place and if place I park is noisy may not hear beep. Luckily never ran battery flat. 

Never as this is the first car I've owned and the switch was rewired many years ago. If I was the first owner (am 3rd), I wouldn't ask to re-wire as it doesn't seem much of an annoyance to flip it on before I go and back off when I arrive. The beeper is very loud so you can't forget to turn it off.

On 10/4/2021 at 7:28 AM, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:
On 10/3/2021 at 6:12 PM, UCyborg said:

It happened to my Polo's front-right position light as well earlier this year, which is inherently less powerful, but still. When mechanic "fixed it", it worked properly only for about a month.

Wonder if some of that got to do with VW poor wiring? Something is faulty component that can burn light bulb. I seen VW with issues on ecu display (clock range and other stuff) and side airbags due wiring. Also mechanic may do short term fix to profit more. I know some mechanics even like to pull intake hose from engine to make your pay expensive engine repair.

Well it lasted 20 years. Maybe a bit less if wiring had to be worked on after the first owner crashed it, then didn't want to drive it anymore. I don't know about crooked mechanics in these parts.

My father used to run a car workshop and he always wanted repairs to be done well. if I remember correctly, he would at times fix things after one of the sloppy workers. Granted, mostly body work was done at our place (easier to see if something is off on the outside), cars needing serious engine work were taken to a nearby mechanic.

At the end of the day, nobody and nothing escapes the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Everything moves towards decay and deterioration.

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10 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000. If you multi-boot, sounds like you may with GNU/Linux, then backing up a Windows 9x install is as easy as copy/paste, or 'cp -axv Windows_root_directory/* Destination_directory', then if 'lite' fails the system is easy to restore.

I use dd and ghost. Norton ghost is faster way to restore image if proper partition table and dd is if whole drive is corrupted

10 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

The faster Windows 98 system i'm tweaking now is almost fully finished, don't want to mess around. I did, however, successfully do this with another install using batch script based software, not 98Lite. Don't recall the name, mentioned in this thread but today i'm tired. Another 'lite' attempt, on an established setup, wasn't as successful, things like graphic and sound drivers broke. I didn't have time to deal with the mess and just restored from backup.

Please correct if wrong, to me it's best to setup a 'lite' system after a base Windows 98 install, before drivers and much tweaking. Unless someone has better ideas, i plan to try this next time a fresh Windows 98 system is needed.
 

What gpu you got? I got Nvidia TNT2 M64 and forceware 31 works. Though that is buggy driver released overall so need to change to newer. Will report results once find most stable one.

10 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

- Install Windows 98 base system (avoid most extra software)
- Install Windows 98 update patches (i do mine manually)
- Run favourite 'lite' software
- Install drivers (graphics, sound, etc)
- Install favourite software
- Tweak

You safely disable all internet options during setup expect TCP/IP. If need anything enable them after setup.

Direct X 8 is latest I managed get to run under 98lite. Direct x 9 complains about lack of cryptographic services even if enabled. I guess ms knew 98lite was used a lot.

Retrozilla, vlc 0.8.1, winamp pro 5.05, netscape 9 with TLS 1.2 mod(Thanks @Gansangrifffor info how patch it), premiere 5.0, photoshop 5.5 illustrator 9.0, office 97, . virtual clone drive 5440, spybot search and destroy 1.6.6 (disable persistent protection and teatimer), HZTOOL (Force higher refresh rate on games under 98), TCMP mod, mplayer, ImgBurn 2.5.8.0 works beautifully under 98 micro shell. I may have had forgotten few utils, but atleast those works.

I need get around testing latest 7-ZIP that does not depend on internet explorer functions and also need find way install my copy of Microsoft Tips and Trips 98 without ie. It says you must install ie3 refusing finish setup otherwise, but ie3 wont work on 98. I guess could virtualise it and copy needed registry keys manually to install.

For games tested following so far: Viper racing, Re-volt, Croc Legend of Gobbos, Croc Legend of Gobbos 2, Donald Duck: Goin' Quackers, First 4 Masa Mainio (Gary Gadget) games (were Macromedia based educational game here that I installed to play with friends to experience childhood again), Microsoft Flight Simulator 98 (you need install indeo video codecs), Microsoft Combat Simulator 98 WW2 european series, Half-Life, Half-Life Blue Shift, Half-Life Opposing force, Tf classic and any other original goldsource mod.

Only updates I installed were Ide HDD cache bug update and Fdisk update

I will update this post as find more software that works on 98lite and if any workarounds is needed

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
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8 hours ago, Dixel said:

@Mr.Scienceman2000, thank you for the advice ! Unfortunately I won't be able to install , because that mobo is acting up ! If I set it to IDE mode , it won't detect HDDs with small size (like 160-250GB) , weirdly enough , 8TB and UP are detected !!! I'm not ready to use an 8TB HDD for win98 , lol. I'll search for another mobo.

I am more surpised you got 8tb and bigger hard drives to be used on tests like that :buehehe:. Biggest drive I got is 4tb.

 

Was drive detected by bios? Did you try wipe drive partition table before it? Sometimes that can break stuff. 9X is very picky about what drive can have

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
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On 10/5/2021 at 10:10 PM, Wunderbar98 said:

Hi @j7n. As per help file DisplaySet runs under Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows NT 4, and Windows 2000. From what i see you can just Bold toggle on/off, no font weight option.

In the registry bold is recorded as "700" and regular as "400" in color schemes. These values appear in some other programs too. To produce a highlighted menu item, Windows adds "200". Now 400+200=600, which is not bold. If you select a font that has a hand-drawn bold face, the difference is clear. Not so with MS Sans Serif. This is so on Windows 98-2003, where the classic scheme has been almost unchanged. I wouldn't fault an application for not focusing on this nuance, but DisplaySet is in other ways very thorough with exposing all the values in a color scheme preset.

Well, you would have to have an open service of some kind on the computer for malware to connect to. Most people are behind a router. I think that by calling computer programs viruses, people might think they are as scary for a computer as they are for man walking with dozen open ports.

Clipboard-.png

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9 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

Was drive detected by bios? Did you try wipe drive partition table before it? Sometimes that can break stuff. 9X is very picky about what drive can have

1 - Yes , it was fully detected , but only in SATA mode , in IDE it just says something like WD HDD [unknown model on sata S1].

2 - It was new (raw) . I tried an old (10 years or more) WD Raptor 160GB and then later 250GB. They both work fine in SATA , but not IDE.

3 - I didn't start the installation process at all.

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11 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

Direct x 9

Breaks a lot of things and makes sound (audio quality) much worse , in my experience.

Edited by Dixel
a typo
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15 minutes ago, Dixel said:

Breaks a lot of things and makes sound (audio quality) much worse , in my experience.

good to know. I guess I avoid it like a plague. I need direct x 8 for few games. Maybe if had late win9x hardware it would be ok. I noticed had less graphic related issues on dx8 than dx9 installed on 98. Had illegal processes when closing games on few installs until had direct x 8 installed.

20 minutes ago, Dixel said:

1 - Yes , it was fully detected , but only in SATA mode , in IDE it just says something like WD HDD [unknown model on sata S1].

2 - It was new (raw) . I tried an old (10 years or more) WD Raptor 160GB and then later 250GB. They both work fine in SATA , but not IDE.

3 - I didn't start the installation process at all.

Very interesting problem. I guess it did not work on one chipset. If Windows 98 detects drive on first phase it might be able do copy part without issues and if lucky may even be able boot into desktop. If not R. Loew sata patch will likely work.

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2 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

good to know. I guess I avoid it like a plague.

Yes, DirectX9 is miserable. It even breaks audio/video quality on Vista and W7 ! Most good games do not need that DX9 redist. package anyways. And if some game wants it , just put the wanted DLL in the game folder , problem solved. 

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2 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

Very interesting problem. I guess it did not work on one chipset. If Windows 98 detects drive on first phase it might be able do copy part without issues...

There was no "phases" , I didn't even put Win98 CD into the drive , because the mobo doesn't work in IDE mode with small drives (weird , I know!). And I'm greedy to waste an 8TB drive for Win98, lol. 

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33 minutes ago, Dixel said:

8TB drive for Win98, lol. 

but imagine all those sweet potato quality avi videos you could fit into that :roll1:.

Well in all seriousness even 128gb ssd is overkill for Windows 98 with lot of software and media. Did so because my old drive and finding working 120gb or smaller hdd is hard here. Bios limit is 137gb.

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
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2 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

even 128gb ssd

I do not trust SSDs , sorry ! Just replaced my almost 10 y.o. drive with a new one and now it has 666 GB of free space , lol !

666.png

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