Jump to content
MSFN is made available via donations, subscriptions and advertising revenue. The use of ad-blocking software hurts the site. Please disable ad-blocking software or set an exception for MSFN. ×

Running vanilla Windows 98 in 2020 and beyond...


Wunderbar98
 Share

Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

All the drama, geez peoples. FWIW @Mr.Scienceman2000 your posts are informative and interesting, thanks for your contributions. Did some quick searching for ActiveX exploits and came across this, probably just scratching the surface.
https://flylib.com/books/en/1.47.1.112/1/

Interestingly on new Windows installs many of my personal preferences are opposite default, even installer choices, as many 'features' are perceived as unnecessary or security holes. To me this provides a safer, calm computing environment.

safest is to have any vurneable component removed. If cannot hardening it. By disabling all scripting and other plugins on IE (javascript, msjava, activex, flash) and only leaving allow applications to execute (if windows xp and newer). Even if you do not browse internet on IE, some programs may embedded ie contect, for many free utils used to have ad banner before MS intergrated ads to OS level with advertising ID. In theory those could be used to inject spyware if scripting is enabled so disabling them does improve security.

And I agree with newer Windows bundling unwanted stuff by default or even disallowing removal of them. If they are so bad you need force them on in order to have user keep them doesn't that tell lot from quality of product?

15 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

Oh yeah, infinite scrolling would also be banned. Who came up with that, guessing some marketer wanting to keep you hooked. Stop scrolling for a while, turn off the computer and get some sleep. If you're addicted to a smartphone, rest those weary opposible thumbs.

When i think back to 'important' websites from years back (eg. email, bank), the web interface was generally very functional and efficient. Now there are so many icons and menus, so much clutter, hamburgers, hover text, scripts, etc. IMHO most modern sites do not provide much more valuable information, mostly marketing and noise, and they take much more processing to navigate.

infinite scroll is stupid since makes harder find information. Second is contect variable based on algorithm. If I try look for something and then come back to page, site order could have changed and I cannot find other stuff wanted anymore. As for phones, they have been designed to be addictive. I noticed on workplace phone it started beep from old notifications if did not pick it up for some time even had read those messages on laptop few days before. Feels like it wants me to check it, which I wont because it was not SMS notification tune or ringtone.

Perfect online banking site to me would be this: No javascript. If javascript is enabled, site would deny access prompting user to disable it because security risks, site would only have bank accounts, loans, transaction history, way perform transaction (used here to pay bills or transfer money to other person bank account), credit and debit cards. Nothing else is not needed in my opinion. No need ads or prompts everywhere to get loan all the time. 

15 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:



Thank-you also for your gamepad comments @Mr.Scienceman2000, nice to see Windows 9x can use some modern controllers. The only gaming controller used here needs an old fashioned gamepad port. The 'faster' Windows 98 system i'm setting up has no such port, unless a proper sound card gets installed. Maybe i'll just use that system for keyboard/mouse games, many of my favourites don't need a gamepad anyway.

You should get either Fortemedia FM801 based soundcard or ESS Solo 1 soundcard to it. Both of those are cheap, relatively easy find even today, got game port and even got dos emulation. I recommend ESS Solo1 more out of those two. I got both of them

15 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

 
I've been using more recent Firefox lately. From poor memory, remember the 'Australis' phase some years ago. To me a crazy mess, rounded tabs wasting precious pixel space, hidden menubar, tabs above the navigation/URL bar, traditional navigation buttons removed or shuffled, introduction of 'hamburgers', etc. Even worse it was intentionally designed not to be easily revertable, abandoning many loyal followers. Well to my surprise recent Firefox seems to have reverted to some common sense, tabs are square again and the menubar is easy to re-activate. Still to me it's modern day spyware, the irony. Firefox usership is presently very low, hopefully it will survive.

Much of this seems similar to Windows abandoning the Start menu with newer releases. What a pity, such a functional interface. Why not keep it default and allow an option to remove as desired. Gramma and grampa would definitely approve, so would multitudes of office workers that just want to get their jobs done. My favourite interface ever remains Openbox on Unix-like systems but most users don't want to waste time tweaking every little thing.

I am more surprised how Mozilla diehards are defending new UI so hardly. They say anyone who do not like it does not understand how good it is or goes to personal attack. Same to Microsoft.

Most sad defence attempt was back in 2012 when Windoze I mean Windows 8 was released and many power users were not happy to new UI. Microsoft released old video called "Windows 95 usability testing (1993). First though was interesting see early Windows 95 beta, that had not leaked, then realised it was used as argument to silence any who criticised Metro UI on Windows 8.

That as argument was very lame since video was from 1993, two years before Windows 95 launch. Windows 3.1 before it was quite hard to use compared Machintosh Finder. That point Microsoft was doing usability tests with two groups. One was normal users and second power users. Video they used was from normal users and was used to take notes what need to be changed. Some of those findings can be read on Microsoft Windows Chicago Reviewers guide (this site has summary of it and was only place could find document on). When Windows 95 came public, ui had changed a lot and was much more clear and made more sense than before.

So yeah using that video as argument is perfectly good since power users complaining about UI changes done to new Windows which made it like Microsoft BOB, expect Microsoft Bob had no ads and could run 486 and was never meant to power users.

Well most peoples it is no issues since watching cat videos or playing candy crush does not require proper UI.

15 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

it's not safe for pedestrians or cyclists anymore.

I agree on this 100%. For me rule is always let any lightweight (pedestrians and cyclists) go first even if you do not have to let them by law. Car hitting to them does bad damage to them and can kill them. Many times I stop on on crossing to allow them pass I keep hearing horn behind me like I would be doing something wrong. It is not required, but not illegal either (unless someone can show me law that makes it illegal) and can help on busy areas. I drive with both bicycle and car and do not want crash on either. Many peoples wont know, but car has thing called brake pedal that slows car down and it can be used on crossings.

Well atleast I am happy to live outside town. There is little to now traffic, since living away from main roads. Next to me is pretty much only forest and river and most walk to visit stores, shops or bar. I only visit town for work or some special shopping. Funny that rents are lower here because nobody want to live outside center of city, even it is much more calm area. And it even got good bus connections, bicycle roads etc. I like to cycle and walk on forest, where no traffic or anything else.

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
Link to comment
Share on other sites


19 hours ago, UCyborg said:

In other news, we got the first 3D zebra crossing in the capital city recently. Not sure what to think of it.

speed bumps are only that slow down. If you do not slow down to them, they slow car speed to 0 for good. Those are used near schools here. Sharp ones are stupid though, good luck crossing them on low drivetrain sedan that got few peoples onboard. I did manage hit drivetrain to sharp ones on 2008 passat (was not mine just drove it) even had speed under 20km/h so not nice at all. Luckily did not ruin anything but could have had

19 hours ago, UCyborg said:

I still find it absurd that we have to drive with lights on in the broad daylight.

it seems to apply whole Europe apparently. Here we have same. Though most of cars I driven had no option to turn off headlights, expect dim them on park mode (light switch centered).

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

speed bumps are only that slow down. If you do not slow down to them, they slow car speed to 0 for good. Those are used near schools here. Sharp ones are stupid though, good luck crossing them on low drivetrain sedan that got few peoples onboard. I did manage hit drivetrain to sharp ones on 2008 passat (was not mine just drove it) even had speed under 20km/h so not nice at all. Luckily did not ruin anything but could have had

I wonder if that is the actual reason why peoples buy SUV's en masse. to use them as normal city cars. :dubbio:

jaclaz

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/30/2021 at 9:04 PM, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

Well blame it on my rally english :roll1:. Most of words I say way they are pronounced and many times I end up writing sentences in way or order written in finnish and end up using it on english. Here you can use ihmiset (peoples) that way on sentences.  If professors on universities are allowed do that mistake I assume it is ok to me :yes:.

And I do not care from grammar that much as long as understand UNLESS it is offical writing or report and not some message or forum post. Or perhaps I learnt not to focus on small problems like that

Everyone , excuse me for off-topic !

You might be surprised , but I actually studied some Finnish ! Yes I did , back in the early-early 1990s. Of course I do not remember much , but "ihmiset" you're referring to , is already plural too , just like in English ! I find it strange  , like very strange  (assuming you're Finnish , as it says on your profile).

https://en.bab.la/dictionary/finnish-english/ihmiset

Back on topic :

I have an idea to try out windows 98 (vanilla) on a G31 mobo from 2006 , someone did it already ? Is it stable ? Thanks.

P.S.

My teacher ,  a 25-28 years old female from Finland (!), said almost 80% of "Finnish" words came from English . I do not know if it's true , I quit the studies , Finnish was quite hard . 

Edited by Dixel
P.S. added
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dixel said:

Everyone , excuse me for off-topic !

You might be surprised , but I actually studied some Finnish ! Yes I did , back in the early-early 1990s. Of course I do not remember much , but "ihmiset" you're referring to , is already plural too , just like in English ! I find it strange  , like very strange  (assuming you're Finnish , as it says on your profile).

https://en.bab.la/dictionary/finnish-english/ihmiset

P.S.

My teacher ,  a 25-28 years old female from Finland (!), said almost 80% of "Finnish" words came from English . I do not know if it's true , I quit the studies , Finnish was quite hard . 

Well Finnish language is different depending on provinces. Every place use different wording. And learning it is hard since we do not use similar grammar rules as other languages. In English for example there is the, an, a, but we do not have any of those. It is rather confusing language and only way master it is if been using it whole life. Good thing is even computers and AI translators fall short on it so easy to detect machine translated sites:lol:.

And yes I am native Finnish and been living there my whole life. And no we do not take sun on -40c or fight against polar bears despite internet claiming that:roll1:.

And claim is true. We do have many words used with slight changes. For example revving is revittää in finnish.

Ok I get back to topic too now

1 hour ago, Dixel said:

I have an idea to try out windows 98 (vanilla) on a G31 mobo from 2006 , someone did it already ? Is it stable ? Thanks.

I do not have experience with exact chipset, but with one that is near same. Q35 chipset with core2duo works with Windows 98, but you need enable IDE mode to SATA drives and change IDE mode to legacy. If board lacks that option use legacy since it should do the same.

Before installing Windows 98 copy all install files from install cd win98 folder into c:\windows\system\precopy . That is default path Windows 98 uses to search for files if cd is not detected during phase 2 of setup. In my experience setup has to be started from CD/DVD drive in order make Windows 98 detect drive later on newer chipset. use following setup switch "/p i /im /is". In english Windows 98 this is setup.exe /p i /im /is and on your depending whatever is name of 98 setup executable. Those switches skips pnp bios detection (acpi wont work on that chipset) and scandisk.

After setup you can use either univbe or Windows 98 compatible pci e (nvidia 6xxx, 7xxx atleast). On my tests was very stable after disabled acpi

 

 

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That would be a wonderful banking site @Mr.Scienceman2000, sign me up. Still don't understand why the majority don't see JavaScript as unauthorized, unaudited code execution. Thanks for the soundcard suggestions, hopefully someone will find it useful, i'll just grab something from storage. Forgot about Microsoft Bob, you know your MS history. Here in redneck central speedbumps barely flex the suspension of the average pickup truck.

Hi @Dixel, try it if you find official drivers otherwise personally i would swap out with known supported hardware or at least hardware from the best supported era (maybe 1995-2004). IIRC official Windows 98 support ended in 2006 so your hardware may be okay.
https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/microsoft-puts-end-to-windows-98-support/

The other day i needed a Windows XP hotfix for known Microsoft breakage following Internet Explorer upgrade. I couldn't find it in the Microsoft Update Catalogue so it was downloaded from an unknown (to me) third party site. The hotfix was manually extracted and compared to another non-English release to estimate if it was actually legitimate, still leaving doubt.

Thankfully the hotfix worked but still it would be nice if Microsoft could maintain a server with a few gigabytes of archived patches. Most distributions, like Debian, make it easy to get archives, even back to their first release (Debian Buzz 1996).
http://archive.debian.org/debian-archive/debian/dists/

And of course more modern releases.
http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/

Last week some 2004 era motherboard drivers were also easily downloaded directly from the vendor's site (MSI) and old DOS stuff can still be found. Come on Microsoft help out us little guys, we just want to run our systems as safely as possible without breakage. Consider it a small contribution to reducing (hardware) waste. Future profit margins aren't sustainable anyway if the planet gets decimated.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

Hi @Dixel, try it if you find official drivers otherwise personally i would swap out with known supported hardware or at least hardware from the best supported era (maybe 1995-2004). IIRC official Windows 98 support ended in 2006 so your hardware may be okay.
https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/microsoft-puts-end-to-windows-98-support/

you can get away with using Windows 98 without chipset driver if you got ACPI disabled (/p i flag disables pnp bios and acpi). Also need 98 compatible audio card and gpu. Not most optimal, but will do the job. Though I prefer supported hardware under Win9x

3 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

The other day i needed a Windows XP hotfix for known Microsoft breakage following Internet Explorer upgrade. I couldn't find it in the Microsoft Update Catalogue so it was downloaded from an unknown (to me) third party site. The hotfix was manually extracted and compared to another non-English release to estimate if it was actually legitimate, still leaving doubt.

Thankfully the hotfix worked but still it would be nice if Microsoft could maintain a server with a few gigabytes of archived patches. Most distributions, like Debian, make it easy to get archives, even back to their first release (Debian Buzz 1996).
http://archive.debian.org/debian-archive/debian/dists/

And of course more modern releases.
http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/

Last week some 2004 era motherboard drivers were also easily downloaded directly from the vendor's site (MSI) and old DOS stuff can still be found. Come on Microsoft help out us little guys, we just want to run our systems as safely as possible without breakage. Consider it a small contribution to reducing (hardware) waste. Future profit margins aren't sustainable anyway if the planet gets decimated.

well Microsoft pulled EXFAT update for Windows XP from their site and removed all traces of it. I had hard time finding Finnish version of update and finally did. I got no server space right now to store publicly accessibe them so I keep multiple copies of them backed up and share if someone needs them.

 

As for drivers Nvidia removed their Windows 9x, NT4 and XP driver archives from site making finding drivers harder. All sudden product magically drop XP support.

Best example was Happauge WinTV solohd tv tuner for computer. 5 years ago site said it supports Windows XP, but recently that mention went away. What made it more conflicting was few of their different region sites claimed Windows XP support and there was support for Windows Media Center Edition 2005 according another help page on their site. I emailed to company asking if if there is support for it using conflicting information as proof. Answer I got was this

"Hey not supported and never has been supported. Also XP is out of support so we do not answer questions related to it"

Support did not even read my message where asked why there was information claiming does and does not on current site. Also their site had XP compatible driver from 2015 for tuner.

I bought the tuner and connected it into XP machine and tried offical driver installer that failed to detect card. I looked INF file with notepad++ and compared hwid to one listed under device manager. Only different was at end after PID. I changed it to match my tuner and driver installed just fine. Also remote works and channels tune under DVBviewer under XP. I am using it to watch/record channels and read news and weather off teletext (on CRT of course).

So company went trough all trouble trying wipe information from XP support, changing hwid so wont work by default. Rarely see company that does not want my money

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/2/2021 at 2:40 AM, Wunderbar98 said:

Oh yeah, infinite scrolling would also be banned. Who came up with that, guessing some marketer wanting to keep you hooked.

I don't know, but there's an extension for Mozilla software called AutoPager. Seems to be still available on Thunderbird addons page. I must have found it useful back then for forums or searching for stuff buried behind in the search results. I remember also making a rule to automatically load the next page of then attended high school's news page.

I don't remember why I stopped using it, could be compatibility with web or with the browser or I simply chose to. I have about 50 Firefox extensions archived, I'd have to dug them out if I wanted to see how many extensions' installation could be even attempted out-of-the-box since the younger me had less technical understanding and only backed up extensions folder itself, so at best, only those survived that don't get unpacked from XPI at install. I currently use cca. 20 in more traditional browsers (Pale Moon/Basilisk) and cca. 10 in Chromium browsers.

On 10/2/2021 at 2:40 AM, Wunderbar98 said:

I've been using more recent Firefox lately. From poor memory, remember the 'Australis' phase some years ago. To me a crazy mess, rounded tabs wasting precious pixel space, hidden menubar, tabs above the navigation/URL bar, traditional navigation buttons removed or shuffled, introduction of 'hamburgers', etc. Even worse it was intentionally designed not to be easily revertable, abandoning many loyal followers.

After Australis came, Classic Theme Restorer and Status-4-Evar extensions also appeared. My Basilisk that has Australis interface by default looks very similar to Pale Moon thanks to those. There were also some other extensions, which, since their authors only target Firefox, only properly supported Firefox with Australis interface through their evolution.

On 10/2/2021 at 2:40 AM, Wunderbar98 said:

Much of this seems similar to Windows abandoning the Start menu with newer releases. What a pity, such a functional interface. Why not keep it default and allow an option to remove as desired. Gramma and grampa would definitely approve, so would multitudes of office workers that just want to get their jobs done.

I'm not sure about grandmas and grandpas, my mother is on the older side and she always launched programs through desktop icons. The only reason she has Open Shell installed is because I've setup her computer. :P Obviously, she's a simple user.

Open Shell (or Classic Shell in the older days), QTTbarBar, OldNewExplorer and 7+ Taskbar Tweaker are the first programs that get loaded on a computer that I use. But, from my experience at work, even seeing just Classic Shell is a rarity. I've seen one, MAYBE 2 customers that had it installed in the last cca. 2,5 years.

Same at the workplace itself, I'm the only one with visibly tweaked Windows (of cca. 20 people). Some have dark mode enabled, not sure if there's much else. At the beginning, I was asked the few times if I have Windows 7 installed. No, I setup Windows 10 to look pretty (to my eyes) and be more functional.

On 10/2/2021 at 2:40 AM, Wunderbar98 said:

In Windows i'm usually click-happy. Just noticed a COMMAND.COM 'window' can't be closed using the usual Alt-F4, Alt-x or Escape keys. Of course clicking on the close button or issuing 'exit' works, still odd. Maybe just reminds the user, hey you're using the power of DOS now.

This is actually very old news and hasn't changed until Windows 10. Applies to anything console based AFAIK.

22 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

speed bumps are only that slow down. If you do not slow down to them, they slow car speed to 0 for good. Those are used near schools here.

Same, but I don't know whether there was one previously in that area and they replaced it or just filled the empty spot with this new invention (I know it isn't new, the idea is several years old at least).

22 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

it seems to apply whole Europe apparently. Here we have same. Though most of cars I driven had no option to turn off headlights, expect dim them on park mode (light switch centered).

I remembered to bring it up because I had to change back-right light bulb recently. What's funny is that the old one doesn't even look broken from outside, wire looks OK. Since I have another broken ELVELUX 12V R5W which apparently wasn't thrown away and looks the same, maybe it's the quirk of this particular bulb. Bigger problem will be when the front light goes kaput, I'm not sure about the accessibility on the front side.

Years ago, someone took the car to mechanic to re-wire the lights switch, the off position since means lights on as long as key is turned to on position. My family members all have newer cars (cca. 5 years old), those have it wired by default that lights are off when the key is off, even if light switch is on.

The old Polo apparently has the lights on position wired in a way that only turns on the warning beeper in addition to lights when the key is on off position, not prevent lights from turning on like with newer cars.

I personally think the law is as senseless as the thing with moving clocks forward at summer. People driving with one bad front light (weak illumination) is quite common sight here. It happened to my Polo's front-right position light as well earlier this year, which is inherently less powerful, but still. When mechanic "fixed it", it worked properly only for about a month.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
Thanks for all the Windows 98 tips @Mr.Scienceman2000, probably lots of users with 'newer' edge case hardware, thankfully i've been spoiled. Anyone who modifies INF files for driver installation is automatically considered for Windows 9x Geezer of the Year. Visit my basement for your pick of NIC or sound card, plus the parking spot closest to the club house entry is reserved for you until the end of the year :)

Eligibile Windows 9x Geezer of the Year recipients must meet at least one of the following criteria:
- successfully manipulated an unsupported hardware driver
- run unsupported hardware (or hardware exceeding original OS specs)
- run Windows 9x on real hardware (not in storage or VM)
- at least 20 years of Windows 9x experience
- compiled software for Windows 9x this year
- used DOS for web browsing this year
- scratch coded at least one batch file this year

Nvidia removing old drivers, crazy, thanks for the update. For me downloading drivers from 3rd party is cringeworthy, last resort. Slowly i've been installing Windows 98, XP and now Windows 2000 across various hardware, hoarding the drivers.

As usual thanks for your input @UCyborg. For anyone who isn't aware, many XPI browser extensions have been preserved at the site that archives stuff. I worked on this previously:

Firefox Legacy Collector URLs
https://msfn.org/board/topic/177106-running-vanilla-windows-98-in-2020-and-beyond/page/16/?tab=comments#comment-1175476

Classic Theme Restorer was popular, that's saying something about the popularity of Australis, but i never used it. That was enough for me to switch to SeaMonkey, still my favourite full-featured browser.

Regarding your workplace experience, yes me thinks most users don't tweak Windows much and just use it as-is, or maybe workplace restrictions. Shame as there are lots of possibilities. Thanks for clarifying longstanding no Alt-F4 close for COMMAND.COM, just new to me then.

I like my vehicles just like my computers, old. Now i'm that old guy driving the old pickup he bought new in his younger years. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Lightbulbs are easy and cheap to replace. Less sophisticated stuff to go wrong. Speedbumps won't wreck the undercarriage. Everything is accessible and maintainable, can easily slide underneath to change the oil and grease the drivetrain. Still has most of the important safety features (air bags, side beams, anti-lock, traction control), just no modern sensory overload. I still manually shift gears, same satisfaction as installing an OS from scratch.

###

The 'Quick and Dirty YouTube' script on page 41 of this thread was re-tested. Still works fine and gets a decent 640x360 resolution video that should work well on most Windows 9x systems.

The 'Quick and Dirty MSN Video' script was updated, bottom of page 41, to process video titles containing commas and pipes.
https://msfn.org/board/topic/177106-running-vanilla-windows-98-in-2020-and-beyond/page/41/?tab=comments#comment-1199501

Both Quick and Dirty posts have links to download and set up 'Enhanced Cygwin-Lite', necessary for the script.

When first testing the MSN script on another Windows 98 system Wget output indicated SSL connection error. This old Wget can't connect to MSN's HTTPS. Thankfully, however, it does connect fine to YouTube's HTTPS. So for MSN video bookmark the HTTP-only URL in your web browser of choice, similar to below, adjust for your country. Nice Microsoft still provides this.
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/video
Edited by Wunderbar98
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/2/2021 at 7:50 PM, jaclaz said:

I wonder if that is the actual reason why peoples buy SUV's en masse. to use them as normal city cars. :dubbio:

Ironic is that sometimes those small front wheel drive sedans do better on forest than SUV since lightweight and wont get stuck on uphill:buehehe:.

9 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

Regarding your workplace experience, yes me thinks most users don't tweak Windows much and just use it as-is, or maybe workplace restrictions. Shame as there are lots of possibilities.

I am not allowed adjust my workplace computer outside color scheme, wallpaper and sounds. I cannot even run browser not listed on software center. Well I can with admin rights, but workplace policies are workplace policies and I follow them. I would want to tweak my work computer or install my own os, but it is not my property.

On my home in other hand I customised and personalised computer to meet my needs. I got picture of forest near me or pictures from nearby lake as wallpaper. I got back to photographing after moved into new area that had potential to take good nature pictures. Good old Canon Powershot G6 does the job. I also changed color schemes and sounds to ones I like and tweaked all way it pleases me. Also changed my favorite screensaver (3d flying objects). I could say my computer is part of my personality now:D.

10 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

I like my vehicles just like my computers, old. Now i'm that old guy driving the old pickup he bought new in his younger years. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Lightbulbs are easy and cheap to replace. Less sophisticated stuff to go wrong. Speedbumps won't wreck the undercarriage. Everything is accessible and maintainable, can easily slide underneath to change the oil and grease the drivetrain. Still has most of the important safety features (air bags, side beams, anti-lock, traction control), just no modern sensory overload.

Many times old technology does job better than new one. And lot of old quality technology is worth money and effort to fix. There is reason why I use older or simple technology. My cheap Casio f91w watch been keeping time just fine and likely will keep in on future. My old nokia and siemens phones will be kicking with me for long time as long as got batteries, quality CRT monitor or monitor overall can last long time with proper maintenance.

 

Sadly there seems to be lot of fight against old technology. Every time someone asks on forums (not MSFN) if CRT or old computer is worth something answer is scrap it for gold or throw into trash. Many times seen even 21" tritrons or diamondtrons to be recommend scrapped despite having zero issues. I personally love CRT monitors. They can do oddball resolutions, lack native resolution allowing soft image even on lower resolutions, got better colors. Flickering issue can be solved by using higher refresh rate on monitor, most cannot see flicker on 75hz and mine does 100hz. Screeb burnin is no longer issue as it was in early CRT days. Late 90s/Early 2000 crt monitors got no such high risk for burn in as long as uses screensaver and wont leave monitor viewing same image 24/7. I use screensaver with 5 minute timeout period and monitor turns off after 20 minutes if left pc unattended. Also computer is off when not home.

There is benefits on lcd too, but it is not true that CRT are worse in every way. What made it worse was article titled "CRT televisions got fire hazard" (roughly translated too english) that was only talking from few Finlux and Salora CRT TV that had faulty coil and many though meant all CRT monitors and televisions. Those two were defective to begin with.

Same way there has been attempts to try get peoples scrap their old reliable phones and buy brand new ones. Some said to me that "buy those brand new nokia classic phones if do not want smartphone." Those new "classic" nokia phones are cheap foxconn low quality devices. Original nokia phones I got were assembled in finland. Even casings were molded here from plastic ordered from europe. New ones got cheapest and weakest plastic on world, got Kaios instead of series 30, 40 or 60 that is literally web browser based OS. New ones also has issues with keypad buttons failing. As long as GSM network remains on I got myself backed with reliable old phones.

Also driving schools these days tells to buy as new car as possible with as low kilometers as possible ignoring any of known issues on that models. For example some Mazdas with Motorcraft VVT gear are cheap sport cars, because that gear will break before 100k that can result engine be unusable for good. Nobody seems to teach consumers do your own research before buying, but that would not be good for companies that want you buy new stuff

I could swear most of it has been done by companies to make peoples buy new things instead of wise consuming. 

10 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

I still manually shift gears, same satisfaction as installing an OS from scratch.

I like manuals too. I started driving on same day got licence with automatic gearbox, since allowed me to focus on traffic and other until got enough confidence. Now I prefer manual, more control, uses less fuel, more reliable. Automatic gearboxes got shorter lifespan than manual gearboxes. Opels (GM) until around 2002 automatic gearbox life expectancy is around 300 000km when torque converter starts dying. I know that is not bad lifespan to automatic, but manual can do much longer. Honda automatic transmissions are worst there is. Hondas with manual gearbox are super reliable. Manual gearbox mostly need fluid and if  need replace parts it is usually clutch.

Your old man truck like most old trucks with manual gearbox are most reliable there is. They are built for tough use and will last almost forever if maintained and taken care

10 hours ago, Wunderbar98 said:

Still works fine and gets a decent 640x360 resolution video that should work well on most Windows 9x systems.
 

it is widescreen, but luckily VLC 0.8.6 can force aspect ratio 4:3 so will fill display. It wont even look that bad on 4:3.

13 hours ago, UCyborg said:

The old Polo apparently has the lights on position wired in a way that only turns on the warning beeper in addition to lights when the key is on off position, not prevent lights from turning on like with newer cars.

How many times you left headlights on because did not notice beep? I did many times. I sometimes forget turned light switch into on position when been driving long during dark and is day when reach place and if place I park is noisy may not hear beep. Luckily never ran battery flat. 

13 hours ago, UCyborg said:

It happened to my Polo's front-right position light as well earlier this year, which is inherently less powerful, but still. When mechanic "fixed it", it worked properly only for about a month.

Wonder if some of that got to do with VW poor wiring? Something is faulty component that can burn light bulb. I seen VW with issues on ecu display (clock range and other stuff) and side airbags due wiring. Also mechanic may do short term fix to profit more. I know some mechanics even like to pull intake hose from engine to make your pay expensive engine repair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

Ironic is that sometimes those small front wheel drive sedans do better on forest than SUV since lightweight and wont get stuck on uphill:buehehe:.

Sure, around here we have a clear definition of that class of vehicles: Panda Agricola, (translates to "Agricultural FIAT Panda)

since noone is going to the Camel Trophy or Paris-Dakkar, an old Panda (or any other small front wheel-drive car, but here Panda's are very common) is the perfect car to go around in woods and dirt roads.

However any car that is not  at least 16 years old is frowned upon, while Panda 4x4 and Suzuky Jimny's (of which there are a few) are considered toys for the rich people (unneeded luxury).

jaclaz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for the link to DisplaySet. It indeed allows to change all the colors, and works on Win2003. One thing it doesn't allow is to set or preserve the font weight to 500 in menus, so that a pure bold font can be used for default menu items, as opposed to calculated false bold.

In my experience, CRT monitors don't last long if they are used every day. My Trinitrons failed in the same manner where the red output increased over time, and I had to use the internal controls to raise the other colors, which robbed the display of its advantage of being able to show deep black. Eventually the red started flashing brightly, even triggering a safety power cut, and the monitor became unusable. I wish I had saved the monitors by using them less. I asked a competent technician and he said that nothing could be practically done to fix it, but I don't recall anymore what the explanation was.

The analogy of computer programs to biological viruses has been stretched too far. Some people believe that connecting a cable to a computer will possible "infect" it. I think that if a computer program started randomly mutating, overwriting its code, there is no real chance that it would do something useful and crash every time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all responses. Keep it on topic yous guys or clubhouse KP duty will be assigned. Just joking, nice to see chatter, these are hard times. No hard feelings either @D.Draker, maybe you were just having a hard day, you're welcome anytime. Obviously i can still differentiate between a car and a computer, but I just ask that if members are talking about other OS' or applications that run on other OS' that it be very clear to avoid confusing this lowly Windows 9x simpleton, TIA.

Hi @j7n, i've had mixed experiences with CRT. My first CRT broke after 3 years but my current (old) CRTs just won't die. Regarding viruses, i don't have much experience thankfully, but if they weren't a big deal ask someone who lost data or had to rebuild a system. Seems there are more computer worries now than viruses (backdoors, malware, etc).

I remember the fascination with Java back in the day, it was versatile and cross platform. An introductory programming class taken in about 2000 used Java. It's fun but performance wise not so much. Opening the Java control panel applet takes 5x longer than any other item. Here using Sun Microsystems Java 2 Runtime Environment 5.0 Update 22 (version 1.5.0_22 from 2009). The only application it's used for here is Risk (yura.net), gameplay is a little sluggish too but in a cool way. First Java usage attempts to access the internet, permanently blocked by Tiny Personal Firewall v2.0.14.

It would have been nice if Start Menu -> Run box featured autocomplete, though i realize the Tab key traditionally cycles Window control buttons. To be fair the official DOS release of DOSKEY.COM didn't have this feature either, needed to install 3rd party Enhanced DOSKEY. Since Enhanced DOSKEY is one of the first applications installed here on a new build, often it's easier to launch applications from a COMMAND.COM window instead of the Run box.

Came across C:\WINDOWS\QFECHECK.EXE while studying a script. I've seen this executable many times (bright yellow lightbulb icon) but never investigated. This could definitely be a useful tool, especially in the days when regular updates were being released, but even now to confirm the manual or 3rd party automatic install of Windows updates.

***
QFECHECK.EXE:
You can use this tool to find out which versions of updated system files are installed on your computer. You can also check to see whether the versions installed match the versions listed in your computer's registry.
***

Seems a lot of 3rd party developers back then marketed software that provided system information from data that was, obviously, already present on the system. Often just collected or presented in a different manner or maybe added a slight twist or bonus feature. Looking for hardware specs the other day, there are lots of areas to check in a vanilla install for information:
- Ctrl-Alt-Delete (task manager)
- Control Panel -> System
- Windows Explorer right-click C: properties
- Desktop -> My Computer
- Start menu -> System Tools -> System Information
- Start menu -> System Tools -> System Monitor
- Run box -> HWINFO.EXE /UI
- Run box -> DXDIAG.EXE

There was an old interesting thread here concerning Windows update KB891711, whether it should be included in a 3rd party service pack.

***
The file KB891711.exe file is found on Windows 98, Windows 98 SE, and Windows Millenium operating systems. Its a Windows security update file protecting against a "Vulnerability in cursor and icon format handling could allow remote code execution". With the April 12, 2005 release of the file it runs as a service from the following registry entry:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServices

Name Data
KB891711 C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KB891711\KB891711.EXE
***

After the update, the service is active during runtime. It isn't identified via Task Manager (Ctrl-Alt-Delete) but gets picked up by Process Explorer. The file C:\WINDOWS\KB891711\KB891711.EXE should be version 4.10.2223. A funny comment from a member who didn't want any extra services running because he was a 'gamer', running 450 MHz with something like 256 MB RAM in 2005-ish. He was ridiculed without mercy, just joking - lol.

FreeCell game #86 gave some grief if anyone wants a little challenge, maybe my head just wasn't screwed on straight, finished and moving on.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have done some testing with Nokia PC software under windows 98.

Nokia PC suite for Nokia 6600 version 1.1 runs without issue under Windows 98SE (Non lite). On test I used infrared connection that need to be enabled in mrouter settings and phone. Cannot say if bluetooth works, since got no 9x compatible dongle. I was able copy pictures out of phone and sync contacts and calendar notes with outlook 97. (Yes I still use it calendar features on outlook 97)

For other phones from same era Nokia PC suite 5.17 is last with Windows 98 support. It support following devices. 

Quote

 

Nokia 3100 Phone

Nokia 5100 Phone

Nokia 6100 Phone

Nokia 6610 Phone

Nokia 6650 Phone

Nokia 6800 Phone

Nokia 7210 Phone

Nokia 7250 Phone

Nokia 7250i Phone

Nokia 8910i Phone*

 

If you want to use DKU-3 cable with it this driver works for Windows 98.

I like Nokia calendar sync, because can have same notes on my paper calendar, but also on my desktop computer and notebook. Calendar sync should also work with Lotus notes, but I do not have that.

9 hours ago, j7n said:

In my experience, CRT monitors don't last long if they are used every day. My Trinitrons failed in the same manner where the red output increased over time, and I had to use the internal controls to raise the other colors, which robbed the display of its advantage of being able to show deep black. Eventually the red started flashing brightly, even triggering a safety power cut, and the monitor became unusable. I wish I had saved the monitors by using them less. I asked a competent technician and he said that nothing could be practically done to fix it, but I don't recall anymore what the explanation was.

that might dependant on monitor.  I like my CRT and will use as main monitor for Windows 98 pc. Some may or may not get defects even if low use. Sadly CRT services are fading, so likely need service it myself without offical parts. Also I do not have monitor on 24/7. Most of time it is off

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
Hi @j7n. As per help file DisplaySet runs under Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows NT 4, and Windows 2000. From what i see you can just Bold toggle on/off, no font weight option, maybe something new for Windows 2003. Also when looking at Display Properties -> Appearance in Windows 98 there is no font weight option.

Came across 'Malicious Mobile Code: Virus Protection for Windows' (OReilly Computer Security, 2001). Maybe everything you want to know about viruses, malicious code, etc, going right back to DOS.
https://flylib.com/books/en/1.47.1/

Not sure there are still active viruses in the wild for these old systems. Regardless better safe than sorry, highly recommend setting up any system as security as possible, unless it's unplugged, without sacrificing too much function.

Following @Mr.Scienceman2000's post a while back, ActiveX settings on this system are now hardened too. Some day i would like to go 'lite' and remove or disable most of the OS but that's a whole other project. I remember reading someone stripped a Windows 95 system down to 10 MB, cool.

***
j7n wrote:
The analogy of computer programs to biological viruses has been stretched too far. Some people believe that connecting a cable to a computer will possible "infect" it. I think that if a computer program started randomly mutating, overwriting its code, there is no real chance that it would do something useful and crash every time.
***

Not a virus but me thinks if your hardware has a back door that is not disabled then all that is needed for malicious activity is to be hooked up to a network. If the code is automated there doesn't need to be a black hat on the other side (like movies). When 'modern' people randomly start using public or other private WiFi, they have no control over the router, router settings, hardware firewall, etc.

I'm not a virus expert in any way but if i was to write malicious code to overwrite hard drive data, for example, it would make sense to strategically target a specific operating system (so you know the file structure). First wipe everything in 'My Documents' and other personal data locations so the operating system remains functional. Then selectively remove non-critical then critical operating system files. The system either disintegrates in real time or by next reboot it's pooched.

Of course there are better, more surgical methods, such as targeting the drive's MBR, specific Windows executables or registry entries. This is why i don't understand your comment, i don't think a hacker would intentionally wipe out his own code/executable until the desired destruction has been completed. Then the payload could be intentionally wiped or moved in attempt to hide tracks.
Edited by Wunderbar98
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...