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Windows 10 - Deeper Impressions


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On lunedì 24 ottobre 2016 at 7:43 AM, mikedigitize said:

MacBook (-Air, -Pro)??

On lunedì 24 ottobre 2016 at 0:06 PM, NoelC said:

Regarding laptop suggestions...  I was going to suggest thinking about a MacBook as well.  Apple makes good, solid hardware.

My son (Master's degree; working on his PhD) just bought himself a MacBook Pro.  He was going to dual-boot it but on my advice decided to leave OS X as the native system and run Win 7 in a VMware Fusion VM.  He says that combo works surprisingly well.  It's a VERY powerful machine, replacing his last MacBook, a 2008 model, which was actually useful to him for 8 years.

-Noel

A Macbook Pro it's not a good choice of buying a new, shiny computer.

Some days ago Apple presented the new laptop with the touch bar which replaced (and physically removed!) the ESC button and the function keys (F1, F2, etc.). And the new laptop also don't have any USB-A port, throwing 20 years of compatibility out of the window because they say so!

That's even worse than removing the Start button in Windows 8, because that was a modification at software level and this is a modification at hardware level, and yet, there are many people still appraising Apple. So they will be ok when Apple will remove the physical keyboard from their computers?

That's why IT is going downhill these days!

Screen_Shot_2016-10-27_at_1.32.18_PM.png

Edited by Agorima
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According to the pictures I just saw on the web, that band where the function keys used to be appears to actually be some kind of touch display, whose functions can be changed (sequentially by touch or through software - dunno).
So it may be able to display smileys, media functions, progressbars and even… the good ol' function keys and act accordingly on touch. :)


MacBook Pro 2016 touch bar

2016macbook-pro-1.png

Edited by Drugwash
added picture (hopefully)
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2 hours ago, Formfiller said:

Is that picture for real?

Smilies?

I read volumes into that comment.  And I agree. 

Fad development, dumbing systems down to thunderous applause by the masses, who have no business guiding the direction of technical progress.

Whether that bar could possibly ever be useful in a Windows installation on the device is the question.  I suspect not, at least not for quite a while until someone does some serious driver work.  Might it light up with Esc and function keys courtesy the BIOS?  Who knows, but I doubt it.

I wonder how many people understand the night and day difference between a set of physical keys that could be programmed and a touch panel that has no tactile feedback whatsoever.  Now, a keyboard where the keycaps could be programmed (or not) with alternate graphics...  THAT would be pretty cool (not to mention visible in the dark).

-Noel

Is it just me, or does the portrayed maturity level of the girl pictured in Drugwash's quoted image above seem right in line with that row of smileys?

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Why couldn't they add another row? Why did it have to replace Function keys and Esc? Imagine F2 (Rename), F3 (Find next), Alt+F4, F5, F8, F11 and other keys getting impacted when running Windows for no reason! They're promising that Function keys will be shown as touch keys when running Windows on it. Can the MacDeath Pro show F8 key before the OS has booted? And why should I give up tactile feedback? Apple morons are ruining the industry causing Microsoft morons, Google morons and Lenovo, HP, ASUS, Acer, Dell, Samsung to ape them.

Edited by xpclient
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remember when they started making it so you had to hit the function key (fn) before you could use the normal functions that used to drive me nuts. I prefer real normal keys if I still had my old ibm keyboard I would use it. I like the nose it made when you pressed and released the keys also it could take a beating lol.

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3 hours ago, helpdesk98 said:

I prefer real normal keys if I still had my old ibm keyboard I would use it. I like the noise it made when you pressed and released the keys also it could take a beating lol.

I assume you're talking about the good ol' IBM Model M keyboards. I still have three working pieces (see here), I've accidentally broken another one few days ago when a bottle of beer spilled all over it. It was my first keyboard ever, bought second-hand in 1999 (got my signature on a bottom sticker) and it's been manufactured in 1988 (internal sticker on that thick metal plate). Never missed a keypress and the sound (to me) is a must. Almost cried over it. :(

5 hours ago, NoelC said:

Now, a keyboard where the keycaps could be programmed (or not) with alternate graphics...  THAT would be pretty cool (not to mention visible in the dark).

They are on their way to achieve that goal, from what I read. They've acquired a starter company named Sonder that invented the e-ink system which allegedly allows changing the graphics on all keys. There are pictures on the web about this. Too bad they probably will retain the patent for the technology so I won't ever see a Windows 98SE driver for such a standalone keyboard (or the keyboard itself, for that matter). :)

Edited by Drugwash
small typo
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More about that new MacBook Pro and other new offerings by Google and MSFT:

How Google, Apple and Microsoft just saved the PC

Some impressively arrogant, patronizing attitudes being displayed by the writer:

Quote

We demand innovation, but resist it when it actually appears in our favorite product lines. That's why only tech giants like Google, Apple and Microsoft can force the necessary change users want, but don't know they want.

Check that -- we welcome improvement, but reject novelty for its own sake.
 

Quote

Instead of a desktop PC sitting on a desk, and surrounded by papers, sticky notes, books and other analog clutter, the Surface Studio concept is to make it all digital, but continue to use it in the same way. So you could imagine an open e-book, virtual yellow sticky note reminders, a stack of virtual documents and a virtual notebook filled with your scribbles -- all on the screen instead of littering your desk.

The Surface Studio concept not only makes existing desktop PCs obsolete, it makes desks themselves obsolete, especially as ever larger versions of Surface Studio like PCs come on the market.

From a psychological standpoint, this is a nightmare in gestation. Yes, I do have a cluttered desk. But the pens, papers, thumb drives, and so forth that ring my monitor and keyboard sit outside my focus of attention, which is the screen. If you bring all that onto the screen, then there is no avoiding (ignoring) it. Why would I want to litter my screen with extraneous crap? That hardly sounds like a way to improve productivity.

And then there's the ergonomic angle. Touch-enabled desktop and laptop computers have been around for years now, and PC sales keep declining. The reason is simple: when it comes to manipulating items on a screen, touch is awkward and unnatural. Tablets had a brief heyday because you could hold them on one hand to bring the device to a comfortable height and angle, while the other hand did the digital work. Imagine trying to type that way, be the keyboard real or virtual. Don't work. And now this guy envisions people reaching out their arms to hit something on a distant corner of a giant screen, or constantly leaning forward over the touch surface. There'll be a healthy market for chiropractic services if his prediction comes to pass.

BTW, the commenters are not impressed:

Quote

It could also be that we recognize the difference between innovation and planned obsolescence and these are all mixed hats leaning more on the side of planned obsolescence... MS seems to be pushing more and more toward apple-like devices that are nearly impossible to repair or upgrade... Well, that and they are turning software goods we pay for and prefer to purchase out-right and turning them into subscription "services" that we no longer own and will be charged thousands of dollars more for over the lifespan of the application.

Quote

A US$6000 Jamboard display from Google, a US$2999 Surface Studio AIO desktop cptr from M$ & a US$1799 MacBook Pro laptop from Apple very likely ain't gonna save the PC industry. 

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
clarification
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The only problem in the IT world as well as everywhere else is the complete lack of (sane) choices.
They just want to sell, sell, sell. They don't care about users' needs or desires. They know there's no real competition in their market segment.
Now you, Jorge (or anybody else), try to build up a business that produces say Windows 9x or OS/2 hardware complete with drivers and whatnot. How long do you think you'll stay alive after you refuse their "proposal" to back the […] off of the market?
Why would almost everybody remove Win9x drivers and compatible software from their servers, considering (at least theoretically) almost nobody would care for that stuff so they would (theoretically) generate (almost) no traffic? Wasted space? C'mon, we're in 21st century! So? I guess someone said "do it or else". And chicken comply.

That's the world we're living in and the bullies are not where some say they'd be.

@jaclaz: Thanks, I know about that company, but I don't trust current products, for one, and then I just can't afford ordering over there even if I wanted to. Besides, they still don't make custom key caps for the Romanian language, I need to use a black marker for ŞŢÂĂÎ.
 

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23 minutes ago, Drugwash said:

Besides, they still don't make custom key caps for the Romanian language, I need to use a black marker for ŞŢÂĂÎ.

Í'vé hád to lêàrn tó úsë the ÂLT kèy.

--JorgeA

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I've learned the position of the keys since 1999-2000 and I don't even have to use any key combo when layout is set to RO, but it would still be nice to see those letters on the keyboards, same as spanish, french, german, danish and other people (even chinese, japanese, korean) see their native alphabet on their personalized keyboards. ;)

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Heh heh heh, Drugwash, you and I have some things in common.  I'm typing this on a keyboard literally made in 1985 or thereabouts (and have a few spares in the closet).  Some things just haven't been improved on since then.

-Noel

Edited by NoelC
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