Windows 10 - First Impressions

[JorgeA]

That is really outrageous. People coming back from lunch to black monitors and data plans over the limit, just because Microsoft has decided they should move to 8.1.

 

The amount of arrogance and paternalism ("we know what's best for you") is unbelievable. Any properly designed upgrade program would avoid sneaking this "update to upgrade" into the normal Patch Tuesday flow. Non-techie users should not have to keep on top of what Microsoft intends to do for to them, in order to keep their computers running as they set them up.

 

--JorgeA

[NoelC]

It's no longer about what users need AT ALL, nor is there any sense of service left.  I don't think they even care whether Windows is actually a complete operating system any more.

 

Microsoft is clearly drowning and not the slightest bit unwilling to drag its users down as it tries desperately to get a last gasp of air.

 

I've had to pay them upwards of $300 total just to have a Win 8.1 Pro DVD in hand, and to run Win 8.1 on one computer.  To be honest, owing to the unexpected licensing machinations I had to go through to get Win 8.1 Media Center edition, I'm not at all sure I'd end up with a running, licensed version if I had to install it afresh from that DVD I paid so dearly for.  Which product code would I use?  The Pro one or the Media Center one?  At least I'm sure I can still restore a system image backup, of which I have plenty.

 

I'm no dummy, but if they managed to corner me into paying this much just for the privilege of running a system that's no better than the Windows 7 x64 Ultimate I replaced, then imagine what they're doing to the general public.

 

-Noel

[JorgeA]

^^ Sheesh. Could they make it more complicated to (re)install your own licensed OS?

 

Speaking of a complete operating system, did you see this comment over at the Microsoft Community --

 

Frankly, instead of moving to a "unified" OS, MS should have split into consumer and enterprise editions.  Let them sell tiles to the half-eaten fruit crowd, the rest of us have work to do.

 

Funny and trenchant.

 

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

And additional cogent observations, mirroring some of what we've been saying here:

 

Ive said in the past that windows for most of its life has been the least eye candy OS ever. From windows 95 up to (not including xp) the only eye candy we got was gradient captions in windows 98. When XP came it was like an explosion (altho maybe a bit much). Heres the funny thing about that. YOU had the option to disable it. This carried on in later versions. Both Vista and 7 had Aero (Luna's replacement) and it was Defeatable. (i.e. you could turn it off). Again the User had the choice. Do I want aero back? absolutely! Do I think it will come back? Im almost 100% certain that it wont. Can we at least find a happy medium? Thats what these builds are for i guess. Even if the whole of Aero was brough back as an option even turned off by default i would simply soil myself. This is something that has had more votes than almost anything else and it is abundantly clear that A Lot of users want it.

 

Also...

 

One of the things i get sick over is how i hear people say 7 looks dated. Ok 7 isnt really that old not when you consider OS lifespans. Even 8 is what 3 years old now so isnt that dated? Thing is the whole modern look was done long ago in the mid to late 80's and now i suppose whats old is new again? How is that not dated?

 

--JorgeA

 

[NoelC]

Funny thing... When I run Win 7 for testing it feels DIFFERENT, but it's a good kind of different. Kind of like visiting home after being away for a while.

-Noel

[Tripredacus]

More indications of MSFT's growing user-hostility:

 

Is it possible to create an installation media for windows 8.1 as update version of Windows 8

 

Q:

I was able to create an ISO file on a DVD using the "Create Media" button from the Create-Reset-Refresh-Media webpage. However, the installation procedure on this webpage requires the computer to already have an operating system installed.

 

Can you recommend an installation procedure for rebuilding a desktop computer? We have 2 desktop computers from our customers whose motherboards went bad. We have to rebuild & replace them with brand new motherboards which obviously do not have any operating system installed.

 

Can you give me step-by-step instructions to:

• Create a bootable installation file of Windows 8.1
• Install Windows 8.1 on a clean motherboard with no current operating system

 

 

A:

No.

 

You may have to purchase Windows 8.1

 

Well that is just the marked answer. If you spend any amount of time on MSFT forums, moderators will mark just about anything as an answer. I've even seen off-topic posts marked as answers. Its kinda silly. So for that thread there, I would consider that DominicP's post was a better answer.

The real problem with the approach to 8.1 is that MS considered it a new OS version. As such the key algorithms were changed where an 8.0 and 8.1 Product key is not interchangeable. It is obvious to us that 8.1 is an Update and shouldn't require a new product key. So if you want a Windows 8.1 DVD you need an 8.1 Product Key. Also I would like to point out that a motherboard failure is not widely an acceptable reason for loss of hard disk data.

[JorgeA]

For future readers, here's what DominicP replied:

 

See http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/windows-81-tip-download-windows-81-iso-windows-8-product-key .

 

Note that you cannot use your Windows 8 key to install Windows 8.1 clean. You must install with a placeholder key (which will not activate) and change the key to your Windows 8 key after installation.

 

The placeholder keys are:

Windows 8.1 placeholder - core 334NH-RXG76-64THK-C7CKG-D3VPT
Windows 8.1 placeholder - pro XHQ8N-C3MCJ-RQXB6-WCHYG-C9WKB

 

What a convoluted procedure. So they are considered different OSes, but then you not only have to input a temporary key but also have to type in the key for the "old" OS.

 

Who's the genius who thought this up?? Amazing!

 

Thanks for clarifying, and for the heads-up about what they'll mark as an "answer" over there...

 

--JorgeA

 

[JorgeA]

Funny thing... When I run Win 7 for testing it feels DIFFERENT, but it's a good kind of different. Kind of like visiting home after being away for a while.

-Noel

 

That's very fitting. In terms of the UI, it's like going back 20-30 years and then coming back to the present.

 

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Speaking of the Win10 UI, here's a point about the looking-glass search that I had not come across before. It has to do with the ridiculous "Trending Now" news items on the right side of the box:

 

On a more serious note, if you have a UI that forces people to ignore information, then you are unintentionally training them to ignore potentially important information.  That was the problem with the original Vista UAC problem where it was popping up for trivial things and people stopped reading and thinking and just clicking yes anytime something popped up to interrupt your workflow.  That's a very dangerous thing.

 

Do we really want windows users to learn that windows is full of irrelevant stuff to be ignored?  Wouldn't it be better to discover that windows can give you the information you want when you want it, instead of the information you don't want when you don't want it?

 

People are clamoring for a way to turn off this aspect of the search box, without necessarily removing or unpinning the search box itself.

 

--JorgeA

[jaclaz]

What a convoluted procedure. So they are considered different OSes, but then you not only have to input a temporary key but also have to type in the key for the "old" OS.

The issue may come if the update is a "forced one" and does NOT work as it should, this one JFYI is a nice one, check at the end of the page the report by Jim5506:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_update/forced-windows-81-update/73e135af-4566-4e9f-a001-686b1b2fe75c?page=2 

 

jaclaz

[MagicAndre1981]

Well that is just the marked answer. If you spend any amount of time on MSFT forums, moderators will mark just about anything as an answer. I've even seen off-topic posts marked as answers. Its kinda silly. So for that thread there, I would consider that DominicP's post was a better answer.

 

 

yeah, this happens all the time. The Microsoft forums are terrible.

[jaclaz]

The Microsoft forums are terrible.

Now that is a pretty strong statement , I would rather say that those forums are managed in EXACTLY the same way Microsoft nowadays is .

jaclaz

[NoelC]

Is there a difference between "pretty terrible" and "the way Microsoft is managed nowadays"?  Seems like we're all pretty much in agreement.

 

On this I have to agree with Andre...  Bright, helpful people who know what they're doing are more and more seeing a primarily non-English speaking Microsoft presence on the forums lately.  Some of those folks do try, but the discussion is just overall not at a very high level.  Nor are Microsoft's development efforts at a very high level.  What was once "world class" software is now more like "third world" software.

 

Somewhere around here I recently made a comment about Microsoft no longer being about "service" or "what the customer wants".  What does it say when people from the far east are the primary service givers for an American product in the English language?  I'm, frankly, ashamed.

 

It's too bad Digital Equipment Corporation didn't survive.

 

-Noel

[jaclaz]

Is there a difference between "pretty terrible" and "the way Microsoft is managed nowadays"?  Seems like we're all pretty much in agreement.

Well, there is a slight nuance that you may have missed.

MagicAndre1981's statement may allow the reader to believe that "Microsoft forums are terrible UNLIKE other Microsoft managed things", while my statement flatly excludes that, while at the same time not explicitly stating how terribly those forums are (mis-)managed, i.e. leaving terribleness (like beauty) in the eye of the beholder.

 

Bright, helpful people who know what they're doing are more and more seeing a primarily non-English speaking Microsoft presence on the forums lately.  Some of those folks do try, but the discussion is just overall not at a very high level.  Nor are Microsoft's development efforts at a very high level.  What was once "world class" software is now more like "third world" software.

It is not a language barrier, however, being intelligent or bright is not an exclusivity of English speaking people (nor - for that matters - to citizens of non-third world countries).

Now, pretending to be intelligent, bright and English speaking, and taking part to "high level" discussions adding to them some of their ignorance (which is what a number of people do there just because they have a MVP "badge") is another thing .

jaclaz

[JorgeA]

Is there a difference between "pretty terrible" and "the way Microsoft is managed nowadays"?  Seems like we're all pretty much in agreement.

 

On this I have to agree with Andre...  Bright, helpful people who know what they're doing are more and more seeing a primarily non-English speaking Microsoft presence on the forums lately.  Some of those folks do try, but the discussion is just overall not at a very high level.  Nor are Microsoft's development efforts at a very high level.  What was once "world class" software is now more like "third world" software.

 

Somewhere around here I recently made a comment about Microsoft no longer being about "service" or "what the customer wants".  What does it say when people from the far east are the primary service givers for an American product in the English language?  I'm, frankly, ashamed.

 

It's too bad Digital Equipment Corporation didn't survive.

 

-Noel

 

 

Along the lines of what you said, the Feedback app in my 10TP doesn't work anymore. Ever since I came back this week, it has stopped registering my votes and showing any new feedback that I submit. It was also showing a drastically reduced list of feedback suggestions in the various categories. Now as of this morning, it isn't even showing ANY feedback from anybody in any category!

 

I guess that's an illustration of just how interested MSFT is in getting feedback from its testers.

 

Oh, and the situation is a fine showcase of the, umm, capabilities of Metro apps.

 

--JorgeA