dencorso Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 **** I can move there some of the posts, say... from my previous one up to here. I thought after I had posted it that there'd be better, but then, I had already posted it, so I waited for y'all's (lol!) reaction, before doing anything. **** Now, both of you're missing my point: it's already done, can't y'all see it? People have accepted a reservation for 10, already. But most peolple are on automatic updates. All MS has to do is just push 10 onto everyone who is on automatic updates and reserved 10. Afterwards, if push comes to shove they can always say: "Oops! Sorry! We regret we misunderstood what you really wanted. But... so deeply sorry yet again: it's irreversible! And your current licence doesn't allow for downgrading either... Oh, well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 **** I can move there some of the posts, say... from my previous one up to here. I thought after I had posted it that there'd be better, but then, I had already posted it, so I waited for y'all's (lol!) reaction, before doing anything. **** *** Sounds good to me. Let's do that, unless @NoelC objects. *** Now, both of you're missing my point: it's already done, can't y'all see it? People have accepted a reservation for 10, already. But most peolple are on automatic updates. All MS has to do is just push 10 onto everyone who is on automatic updates and reserved 10. Afterwards, if push comes to shove they can always say: "Oops! Sorry! We regret we misunderstood what you really wanted. But... so deeply sorry yet again: it's irreversible! And your current licence doesn't allow for downgrading either... Oh, well! That will be interesting to watch if it does turn out that you can't roll back to Windows 7. There'll be he!! to pay for Microsoft as tens or even hundreds of millions turn to Twitter, Facebook, and countless tech forums to complain about it and excoriate MSFT for their sneaky tactics and rigid policies. It will also be interesting to see how many Win7 users did in fact reserve Win10. Thurrott's news gave me hope that users out there aren't as pliable and submissive as one might have thought. Time will tell. --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaclaz Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 http://moishelettvin.blogspot.com.au/2006/11/windows-shutdown-crapfest.html Whoa, this little gem perfectly illustrates the internals workings (if that is even close to 'working') of M$. Too many teams. Now add the insiders program, we get a even larger version of the problem described here, http://www.inc.com/magazine/20100201/a-little-less-conversation.html I've enjoyed reading Joel Spolsky and his links... Much of what was written 10 years ago is terrifyingly true today. -sean OT, it had to happen sooner or later: http://creativity-online.com/work/toyota-a-sirious-safety-message/42660 with a good scope and all, but all in all not much different from the prank I expected: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/173316-windows-10-prediction-and-os-ranking/#entry1092785 jaclaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dencorso Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 *** OK. After NoelC chimes in, in case he also agrees, I'll move the posts. *** Now, my quite pessimistic be it this: just after RTM, the numbers of XP, Vista and Win 8.0 will be about unchanged. Those on 8.0 already refused 8.1+ so it's reasonable to suppose they'll keep on 8.0. Now, most of the 7 and almost all the 8.1+ become 10. But I can concoct a more optimistic view, albeit less optmistic than yours: while keeping the numbers of XP, Vista and Win 8.0 about unchanged, let's admit reservation for 7 and 8.1+ was purely random (which surely is not true, but let's suspend disbelief)... if so, half the 7 and half the 8.1+ become 10... that, using the numbers from my original post about this, means, at the very least, 37% Win 10 overnight, which is much more than 8.1+ and 8.0 ever reached, even if considered together! I remain appalled at the sheer crooked brilliancy of it! In summary: "when you cannot seduce 'em anymore, well... simply con 'em!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 *** I have no objections to moving any or all of this information. It's easy enough to find. *** Speaking of upgrading things that are perfectly working... I had ATI Catalyst 14.12 ("Omega") drivers up to a couple of days ago. ATI released a later version, 15.7, so I tried it (I actually need to know what these guys are doing, as I write software that uses OpenGL on PCs). What did I gain? Nothing that I can sense. What did I lose? I now have a few niggling little problems I didn't have before. I'm really, seriously considering downgrading back to the version that simply didn't fail at all. -Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaclaz Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 In other places things are not going well :http://dustri.org/b/firefox-youre-supposed-to-be-in-my-pocket-not-the-other-way-around.htmlhttp://www.ghacks.net/2015/06/23/pro-and-con-of-mozillas-pocket-integration-in-firefox/ It seems like the "your privacy has no relevance for us" mantra is spreading jaclaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 http://moishelettvin.blogspot.com.au/2006/11/windows-shutdown-crapfest.html That jibes with my own experience working in large organizations. --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 One other data bit related to Windows 8.1 adoption: The labs report that just 22 percent of businesses have upgraded to Windows 8.1, and 18 percent are still on Windows XP. Of course, as @dencorso points out, Microsoft is taking advantage of its default "recommended settings" for Windows Updates to push Win10 on an otherwise unsuspecting user base. Fortunately the user still has to take positive action to finalize their Win10 reservation; it's not a purely passive process. But -- do they give details, anywhere in the upgrade process, as to what the user will be losing if and when they make the switch to Win10? If not, then additionally there is an element of deception in the process. To borrow a concept from the health-care industry, this would be an informed-consent nightmare. --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 In other places things are not going well :http://dustri.org/b/firefox-youre-supposed-to-be-in-my-pocket-not-the-other-way-around.htmlhttp://www.ghacks.net/2015/06/23/pro-and-con-of-mozillas-pocket-integration-in-firefox/ It seems like the "your privacy has no relevance for us" mantra is spreading jaclaz Yeah, really. Thanks for the scoop. I sure won't be signing into this Firefox feature! --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formfiller Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I was away for a few weeks and wasn't following any W10/metrotard news at all. Anything important happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dencorso Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 @Formfiller:Not much, really... but do read, say, this thread's current page from the top, and you should be up to date. @JorgeA: Well... One has reserved of one's own free will... one has also kept Windows 7/8 on automatic updates of one's own free will...IMHO, even though IANAL, I can see clearly it can be construed that the one above has already given informed-consent.Moreover, after a strong enough reaction from those conned (which may not happen), MS can "gracefully" offer free 7 Ultimate licences to all those wishing to downgrade, provided they fill a long and very obnoxious form. No 8.x, however, because one must either be serious at downgrading or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rn10950 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Is the upgrade EULA even out yet? I want to read it and see if it is possible to reinstall 7 with your COA key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formfiller Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Speaking of upgrading things that are perfectly working... I had ATI Catalyst 14.12 ("Omega") drivers up to a couple of days ago. ATI released a later version, 15.7, so I tried it (I actually need to know what these guys are doing, as I write software that uses OpenGL on PCs). What did I gain? Nothing that I can sense. What did I lose? I now have a few niggling little problems I didn't have before. I'm really, seriously considering downgrading back to the version that simply didn't fail at all. -Noel I had a positive experience for once. The newest Catalyst solved an annoying problem for me that I thought would never be fixed. Some youtube videos brought this PC (HD 6870 card) to its knees if you viewed them in 1080p. But this occured only if hardware accleration in flash was enabled (if you disable HW-A, some other annoying problems start to happen though). I found a forum entry a while back where lots of users with HD6000 cards had the same problem. I even submitted a bug report a few months ago to AMD with a link to that thread. I tried various older drivers and they all had this problem as well. The newest Catalayst finally fixed this issue. I was genuinely surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralcool Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 @Formfiller I am actually genuinely pleased your problems were heard (amoungst the crowd), if my own test system could fix several annoying bugs I would be with you. Currently on my laptop HP2533TX, No audio for anything for several builds now (it has a realtek audio chip, and nvidia 8400gs for video) . Youtube, flash reports an 'error', really helpful. Not working. ever. Clean installs.. what ever. No video... .. hmm weird. Disable HW accel... nope..... dunno. The fan runs at full speed when the screen goes to sleep. Something is happening I can't find...suddenly the machine finds something to do once the screen is off. Massively annoying while I do the dishes and the laptop is getting ready to blast off into orbit while doing NOTHING. Turbines running full tilt until I touch the mouse. It gets stupidly laggy after running for a few hours, everything is slow. Usual reboot to TRY to restore order. Flash player crashes frequently. No wifi after sleeping. Requires a restart, or disable/enable network adapter. I've tried clean installs..etc. It is simply broken. I am almost sick of testing Win10. Each new build costs me time & bandwidth, and nothing to show for it. Not a single fckn thing!.. Wow , a whole 2.3Gb download for almost different GUI... thats it!?.. nothing for a casual user to even CARE about. Some blur or a dark theme. fck me. Ohh, the tiles slide instead of roll now.... really.. Skepticism actually takes some effort. Whoops, I forgot the login screen thing has a circle avatar, AND a smiley now. from Wiki,"Skepticism is the process of applying reason and critical thinking to determine validity. It's the process of finding a supported conclusion, not the justification of a preconceived conclusion. It's thus inaccurate to say "Skeptics don't believe in ghosts." Some do.", Or that M$ believes that our UI is obselete. They would be correct given the notion of in-app purchases and other means by their competitors. Always late to the party. Microsoft has a VERY long record of being blind to the future. But I cannot see what part of this is an upgrade. Is the kernal more stable than 7 or 8.x?... or just more bloat. I'll reload a disc image of the the thing PERMANANTLY back to a working version of Vista or 7 eventually to remind myself that there is nothing wrong with the hardware of the machine. All the proof I need right there. On THIS laptop, Win10 is simply broken.. figure that out. Cheers PS, 10 million people are going to wake up and find everything changed overnight.... "Well, the more of you die.. the better I eat." Ice Age 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Microsoft has little interest in making their new operating system run on old hardware. But they're forced into supporting some of that - or they'd have to actually develop something truly good and wait to kick start their next big thing until people swapped out for newer hardware. Laptop makers have even less interest in maintaining their hardware after the sale. I would never expect a laptop to be able to run a newer OS. They can't even take new drivers for the most part. I have customers who have faulty OpenGL implementations on laptops because they simply can't get new display drivers to update their circa 2011 software. Between Microsoft not wanting to put in the effort to develop good products because they feel they can survive as an "our way or the highway" monopoly, and the culture they've built around them, it's a brutal reality. -Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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