are there FSB limitations of windows 98se?

[supernova777]

hey there guys

so ive gathered parts for making a windows 98se machine..

the motherboard i was able to get is an Asus P5PE-VM (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5PEVM/#support)

i got this board because i knew it supported core 2 duo processors

and i had read of someone else on this forum who had used it..

Core 2 Duo E4600 (2.4GHz,800FSB,L2:2MB,65W,rev.M0) ALL 1406 GOCore 2 Duo E4700 (2.6GHz,800FSB,L2:2MB,revG0) ALL 1501 GOCore 2 Duo E6600 (2.40GHz,1066FSB,L2:4MB,rev.B2) 	ALL 	0604 GO 	(FSB1066 for external graphic, FSB800 for internal graphic)Core 2 Duo E6700 (2.66GHz,1066FSB,L2:4MB,rev.B2) 	ALL 	0604 GO 	(FSB1066 for external graphic, FSB800 for internal graphic)Core 2 Extreme X6800(2.93GHz,1066FSB,L2:4MB,revB2) 	ALL 	0604 GO 	(FSB1066 for external graphic, FSB800 for internal graphic) 

also the small matx format was ideal for fitting inside an old g4 macintosh case

i am retrofitting..

i have got an E4300 intel core 2 duo processor Which operates at 800FSB

my question is this: do i have to stay on 800FSB? or can i put a processor that runs at 1066FSB?

i know that the motherboard supports this , but does win98se???

i know there is a 512mb ram limitation -- i have a vague memory of reading that win98se would only work with 800mhz fsb..

is this true? because if this is false then i could easily get a E6600 or E6700 cpu for very little money that would

offer better performance on this old DDR400/AGP powered little intel chipset motherboard!

Edited March 11, 2014 by supernova777

[dencorso]

I know there is a 512mb ram limitation -- i have a vague memory of reading that win98se would only work with 800mhz fsb. is this true?

No you don't. There's no 512 MiB RAM limitation (but there is a RAM limitation around twice that amount) nor any FSB frequency limitation whatsoever.

Search the forum and read: all the info you need is here, in much detail.

[supernova777]

I know there is a 512mb ram limitation -- i have a vague memory of reading that win98se would only work with 800mhz fsb. is this true?

No you don't. There's no 512 MiB RAM limitation (but there is a RAM limitation around twice that amount) nor any FSB frequency limitation whatsoever.

Search the forum and read: all the info you need is here, in much detail.

Hello Dencorso!

Thanks for the reply! wow.. this is news to me... thanks for this information..

i guess i read info posted by someone that beleieved that to be true for some reason..

i hope you are right!!

i was searching and i was having trouble finding confirmation of this fact which is why i decided to just ask.

so if there is no limitations -- am i beleiving other false information in thinking that i had to buy an old motherboard

to accomplish what im trying to do? could i have used a newer motherboard? say for example 2009 generation P45/ICH10 ?

the whole reason why i bought 2006 generation 875/ICH5 was because i thought these boards were the last to feature

windows 98se support drivers...

basically im trying to create the best windows 98 machine i coud possibly make.. not absolute record breaking-extreme neccessarily but

aiming high for great performance! is there really no limitations then? do i not need to have an older board with drivers?

i mean, is having proper windows 98 drivers for the motherboard + mobo chipset a must have requirement?

does this mean i could use instead a 1333FSB motherboard (2009ish, P43 or P45 chipset/ICH10 etc etc) that has no official win98 drivers

as long as i just limit my ram to 512mb-1024mb?

i also bought a Geforce 6600GT thinking this was the best video card i could use (while easily setting it up..i had read somethign about the 7800GS

card but saw people struggling with getting it to work so i opted for 6600GT)

sorry to be a pain, but some clarification would really help me out..

[submix8c]

You answered your own question - the crux of installing Win9x of any "modern" MoBo is the Drivers, particularly the Chipset ones which are essential. I don't believe a G45 will function and am unsure of the G3x-series (maybe some of them). So, yes, there -will-be an upper-end (particularly for the Mobo).

Again, browse around, expecially the "Sticky" topics (clearly listed at the top of the 9x/ME SubForum). Most, if not all, of your questions will be answered therein, including "unofficial" fixes, workarounds, etc.

There's one topic "Modern Motherboards which are Working..." (or something like that) which would be of interest.

HTH

Edited March 4, 2014 by submix8c

[schwups]

There is an unofficial driver for ICH 10 chipsets on http://windows98.xf.cz. You also could read here "Slipstreamable" Intel Chipset INF Drivers" (ICH 7/8/9). ICH 8/9/10 motherboards aren' t or are hardly tested on 98/ME! I'm very interested. Currently I am checking a MSI P43 board. I'll post my results. If you buy one, it is to test. Be aware, that probably many of those boards make problems or are unusable on 98/ME. There are no drivers for onboard sound, too. You have to use PCI cards.

[submix8c]

...and sometimes (many times) the Built-In Video.

[supernova777]

There is an unofficial driver for ICH 10 chipsets on http://windows98.xf.cz. You also could read here "Slipstreamable" Intel Chipset INF Drivers" (ICH 7/8/9). ICH 8/9/10 motherboards aren' t or are hardly tested on 98/ME! I'm very interested. Currently I am checking a MSI P43 board. I'll post my results. If you buy one, it is to test. Be aware, that probably many of those boards make problems or are unusable on 98/ME. There are no drivers for onboard sound, too. You have to use PCI cards.

http://browser.primatelabs.com/user/chrisnova777/geekbench2

have a "asus p5b deluxe-wifi" that is 965/ICH8R..http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5B_Deluxe/#support

and a "gigabyte p43t-es3g" that is p43/ICH10 http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3637#ov

also a "gigabyte g41mt-s2pt" that is g41/ICH7 http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3960#ov

i believed all of these boards to be incompatible with win98se...

hence why i purchased the "asus p5pe-vm" that is 865/ICH5 http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5PEVM/#support

(i just happened to have these urls handy + open in my firefox already.. heheh)

as u can see, many pci slots, and i have many win98 pci based audio hardware!! thats the reason im doing this in the first place

and re: "arent hardly tested in on 98/ME!" yes i assume that alot is simply "officially untested" because they stopped caring about compatibility

due to focus switching to XP + OSX.. the large audience not being interested in this.... so win98 is an old forgotten relic, much like mac os 9.2

i actually have another forums board that i administrate dedicated to using this old mac os 9 operating system you can visit at www.macos9lives.com

thats kind of why i started to be interested in old windows 98 things because its more about WHAT U DO with the computer then how powerful it is..

i find it inspiring to work within a wee bit of hardware limitations for whatever reason!! plus its cool to get something for next to nothing

that will allow u to accomplish so much!

Edited March 4, 2014 by supernova777

[rloew]

I have been building new AMD systems every couple of years or so. As they get newer more and more on-board devices become unuseable due to lack of drivers.

First was on-board Video.

Second was on-board Sound.

Two years ago on-board Ethernet.

With my Patches and added PCI cards, I have been able to run Windows 9x up to this point.

I just bought a new Intel system that doesn't even have XP Drivers available for it. So far I have gotten the Hard Drive and USB 2 Subsystems working. My Multi-Core API is not working yet. There is no 1394 Hardware on this Motherboard.

Edited March 5, 2014 by rloew

[supernova777]

just came across this board, its very similar to the Asus P5PE-VM that i chose:

its called the Asrock 775i65G R3.0

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/775i65G%20R3.0/?cat=Specifications

except it seems to have better CPU support then the asus board i picked...

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/775i65G%20R3.0/?cat=CPU

775*	Core 2 Extreme	QX6800(G0)	Kentsfield	2.93GHz	1066MHz	8MB	All775*	Core 2 Extreme	X6800	Conroe XE	2.93GHz	1066MHz	4MB	All775*	Core 2 Quad	Q6700(G0)	Kentsfield	2.66GHz	1066MHz	8MB	All775*	Core 2 Quad	Q6600(G0)	Kentsfield	2.4GHz	1066MHz	8MB	All775*	Core 2 Quad	Q6600(B3)	Kentsfield	2.40GHz	1066MHz	8MB	All775*	Core 2 Quad	Q6400(B3)	Kentsfield	2.13GHz	1066MHz	8MB	All775*	Core 2 Duo	E7300(M0)	Wolfdale	2.66GHz	1066MHz	3MB	All775*	Core 2 Duo	E7200(M0)	Wolfdale	2.53GHz	1066MHz	3MB	All775*    Pentium Dual Core    E6800    Wolfdale    3.33GHz    1066MHz    2MB    All775*    Pentium Dual Core    E6700(R0)    Wolfdale    3.2GHz    1066MHz    2MB    All775*    Pentium Dual Core    E6600(R0)    Wolfdale    3.06GHz    1066MHz    2MB    All775*    Pentium Dual Core    E6500(R0)    Wolfdale    2.93GHz    1066MHz    2MB    All775*    Pentium Dual Core    E6500K(R0)    Wolfdale    2.93GHz    1066MHz    2MB    All775    Pentium Dual Core    E5900(R0)    Wolfdale    3.40GHz    800MHz    2MB    All775    Pentium Dual Core    E5800    Wolfdale    3.2GHz    800MHz    2MB    All775    Pentium Dual Core    E5700    Wolfdale    3.0GHz    800MHz    2MB    All775    Pentium Dual Core    E5500(R0)    Wolfdale    2.8GHz    800MHz    2MB    All775    Pentium Dual Core    E5300(R0)    Wolfdale    2.60GHz    800MHz    2MB    All775    Pentium Dual Core    E5200(M0)    Wolfdale    2.50GHz    800MHz    2MB    All

strange it would support e7300 + e7200 but not the 7400,7500,7600 1066 wolfdale chips??

the e7400 + e7500 in particular are sort of equivelent to the x6800 for instance..

compare:

Core 2 Duo E7400        2.8 GHz         3 MB    1066 MT/s       10.5×   0.85–1.3625 V   65 W    LGA 775Core 2 Duo E7500 	2.93 GHz 	3 MB 	1066 MT/s 	11× 	0.85–1.3625 V 	65 W 	LGA 775 Core 2 Extreme X6800 	2.93 GHz 	4 MB 	1066 MT/s 	11× 	0.85–1.5 V 	75 W 	LGA 775 

e7500 has the same multiplier, same ghz, same fsb but is not listed for support. perhaps it wasnt released when they did the bios update..? thats the

only explanation i can think of.. e7200,e7300,e7400,e7500 were released in April 2008, August 2008, October 2008, January 2009

so that would put the time of the bios adjustment + updates to be around end of august 2008... well before october 2008 or jan 2009 so that would explain why no support for e7400,e7500 i guess..

but.. is that a deal breaker? maybe. this is sort of a mystery because it shows support for e5800 chip which i just checked was released 4th quarter 2010.. so there goes that theory?

still i wonder.. why no e7400, e7500, e7600 support? i must contact ASROCK..

What do you think? do you think the e7400 + e7500 + e7600 may possibly work on this motherboard?

or do they need explicit BIOS code built in to recognize the chip?

also the e7600 wasnt released untill May 2009.

the asus board i picked does not support Wolfdale or Kentsfield CPU's... but i ended up getting a deal tonight on an X6800 Conroe XE for 30$

from a recycling company in texas;) but, i dont think i'll be able to get that to 1333FSB on my Asus P5PE-VM as it's OC FSB is 1066,, base fsb is 800.

similar to this board, it only supports 800 FSB for using the built in graphics.. but 1066 for external so given that similarity its safe to say this little asrock will

likely not do 1333 FSB either, but they seemed to have spent more time on supporting some newer cpus.. I wish i could put a Q6600 into the Asus P5PE-VM, it doesnt support quads at all.

hmm.. maybe i should find one of these;) appears to have Win98se drivers too! dissappointing that it only has 10/100 networking built in.. that might be a deal breaker.. The asus board has gigabit ethernet..

now that im looking i also see a full ATX system by Asrock

its called the ConRoe865PE

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/ConRoe865PE/

this board also supports Q6600 Kentsfield.. wow i wish i had found this a few weeks back

i was using a motherboard search engine site called "interloper.com" but i think its only

relative to what they actually had or have instock rather then a comprehensive search on whats

available by manufacturers.

775*	Core 2 Extreme	QX6700(B3)	Kentsfield	2.66GHz	1066MHz	8MB	P1.50775*	Core 2 Extreme	X6800	Conroe XE	2.93GHz	1066MHz	4MB	P1.20775*	Core 2 Quad	Q6600(B3)	Kentsfield	2.40GHz	1066MHz	8MB	P1.50775*	Core 2 Quad	Q6400(B3)	Kentsfield	2.13GHz	1066MHz	8MB	P1.50

definately less cpu support on this board.. but at least it still supports the Q6600! (which i happen to have 2 of)

If anyone knows of any other motherboards that have windows 98se drivers and support Intel Core Processors past Conroe + 65nm + 1066 FSB, please do share a link to the said board here!

[supernova777]

Gigabyte GA-8I865GME-775

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2223#

ok this board also supports win98se

only it seems to have a much larger cpu support then all of the other boards!!

Intel	Core™ 2 Extreme QX9770	3.20GHz	12MB		1600	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Extreme QX9650	3.00GHz	12MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Quad Q9650	3.00GHz	12MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Quad Q9550	2.83GHz	12MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Quad Q9505s	2.83GHz	6MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Quad Q9505	2.83GHz	6MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Quad Q9450	2.66GHz	12MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Quad Q9400	2.66GHz	6MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Quad Q9300	2.50GHz	6MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Quad Q8300	2.50GHz	4MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Quad Q8200	2.33GHz	4MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E8600	3.33GHz	6MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E8500	3.16GHz	6MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E8400	3.00GHz	6MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E8300	2.83GHz	6MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E8200	2.66GHz	6MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E8190	2.66GHz	6MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Extreme QX6850	3.00GHz	8MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Extreme QX6800	2.93GHz	8MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Extreme QX6700	2.66GHz	8MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Quad Q6700	2.66GHz	8MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Quad Q6600	2.40GHz	8MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Extreme X6800	2.93GHz	4MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E7500	2.93GHz	3MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E7400	2.80GHz	3MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E7300	2.66GHz	3MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E7200	2.53GHz	3MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E6850	3.00GHz	4MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E6750	2.66GHz	4MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E6550	2.33GHz	4MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E6540	2.33GHz	4MB		1333	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E6700	2.66GHz	4MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E6600	2.40GHz	4MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E6420	2.13GHz	4MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E6400	2.13GHz	2MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E6320	1.86GHz	4MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E6300	1.86GHz	2MB		1066	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E4700	2.60GHz	2MB		800	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E4600	2.40GHz	2MB		800	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E4500	2.20GHz	2MB		800	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E4400	2.00GHz	2MB		800	N/AIntel	Core™ 2 Duo E4300	1.80GHz	2MB		800	N/A

looks like i bought the wrong motherboard for this! flexibility wise this gigabyte board takes the cake.

im starting to wonder if this is just an error on the website..

because they list all of their 865G chipset boards as compatible with almost every possible intel core 2 duo or quad 775 socket chip

GA-8I865GME-775-RH-AS (rev. 3.9)

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2585#sp

GA-8I865GME-775-RH (rev. 3.9

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2568#dl

GA-8I865GME-775 (rev. 1.x)

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2223#

GA-8I865GMK-775 (rev. 2.0)

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2402#

GA-8I865GMF-775 (rev. 1.x)

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=1846#ov

GA-8I865GM-775 (rev. 1.0)

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=1845#ov

GA-8I865G775-G (rev. 1.x) <-- nice 5 pci slot board

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2257#

GA-8I865G775-G-RH (rev. 1.x) <-- nice 5 pci slot board

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2332#

all of these boards are listed as supporting win98se OS and CPU: quads/duos up to 1333 fsb... but the specs say 800 fsb .. something aint right;)

maybe it supports the cpu's but downclocks to 800 FSB?

do these boards really support 1333 fsb cpu such as E8600 @ 3.3ghz?

i have contacted some people selling some of these boards on ebay and asked if they support intel core 2 chips and they responded "no" so im wondering if this is an error on the gigabyte website... can anyone confirm?

i think Q9450/Q9550/Q9650 are all 1333 fsb aswell.. possibly 1600 fsb?

actually no, the QX9770 etc series is 1600 fsb ..

[supernova777]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Asrock-775I65G-R3-0-Motherboard-LGA-775-Socket-2x-DDR-PC400-SATA-II-US-/331129257491?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d18d77e13

if anyone else knows where these are sold... please share;)

im sure u can get a better price then 120$

[supernova777]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASRock-775I65G-R3-0-LGA-775-Intel-865G-ICH5-Micro-ATX-Intel-Motherboard-/301102283324?pt=Motherboards&hash=item461b183a3c

i found this listing of newegg clearing out their reserves of this item i guess! 49.99!

[supernova777]

i have found a post over at bios-mods.com saying that they updated the bios to support 45nm pentium dual-core E6600 (3ghz+)

the chip apparently worked without the mod, but gave some type of error message at boot about "cpu Ucode"

heres the thread i found

http://www.bios-mods.com/forum/Thread-Intel-Pentium-E6600-on-P5PE-VM-Board-request

im eager to test to see if this same bios mod would allow support for any 45nm cpu with this board!

if it supports this 3ghz+ 45nm cpu, it must also work with

Intel core 2 duo E7600 (1066Mhz)

http://ark.intel.com/products/41495/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processor-E7600-3M-Cache-3_06-GHz-1066-MHz-FSB

or

Pentium Dual core E5800 (800Mhz)

http://ark.intel.com/products/42802/Intel-Pentium-Processor-E5800-2M-Cache-3_20-GHz-800-MHz-FSB

Edited March 12, 2014 by supernova777

[RJARRRPCGP]

I know there is a 512mb ram limitation -- i have a vague memory of reading that win98se would only work with 800mhz fsb. is this true?

No you don't. There's no 512 MiB RAM limitation (but there is a RAM limitation around twice that amount) nor any FSB frequency limitation whatsoever.

Search the forum and read: all the info you need is here, in much detail.

There's an issue where there appears to be a 768 MB limit. At least confirmed with the swap file. Setting the virtual memory to more than 768 MB results in a false "Insufficient memory to initialize Windows" (or similar) error message. Possibly applies to RAM amount, too.

[rloew]

I know there is a 512mb ram limitation -- i have a vague memory of reading that win98se would only work with 800mhz fsb. is this true?

No you don't. There's no 512 MiB RAM limitation (but there is a RAM limitation around twice that amount) nor any FSB frequency limitation whatsoever.

Search the forum and read: all the info you need is here, in much detail.

There's an issue where there appears to be a 768 MB limit. At least confirmed with the swap file. Setting the virtual memory to more than 768 MB results in a false "Insufficient memory to initialize Windows" (or similar) error message. Possibly applies to RAM amount, too.

The "Insufficient Memory to Initialize Windows" Message starts appearing around 1152MB. Above 768MB, the main problem is too much File Cache choking the System Area. This causes DOS Boxes to Fail.