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nuhi is back, post your suggestions here

nuhi

By nuhi
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nuhi

nuhi

Posted
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Posted (edited)

ricktendo, just in case let me explain a little more - as I detected more enthusiasm than expected :).
Package removal removes packages only, for example Microsoft-Windows-InternetExplorer-Package, Microsoft-Windows-IIS-WebServer-Package... and so on.
I group them seamlessly with other components (component is usually a part of a package).

So when you see components page and 10-20% of them are removable for free, those are usually packages-only, or belonged to it so I split it and gave all for free. This does not include big system packages which contain all components.
Good thing is that the free version will remove it deep, using the same engine as the rest of the program.

 

 yro, with the notion about removals, yes. Free version is nothing less than a pro without:
- majority of removals
- advanced driver operations, like removing undetected drivers for machine's hardware from the integration list
- winsxs cleanup (without picky DISM)

- auto-fill Unattended entries using host machine data
- and a special new thing :)

edit: So it supports Win7, 8, 8.1. 8.1.1. No server for now, and I don't know why would anyone touch a server which has a nice feature/role setup on its own, and it needs to be more reliable for remote management. Also there is Server Core for basic tiniest foundation.
Will see over time, depending on the reasons for that kind of support.

No ads on the free version.

Edited by nuhi

yro

yro

Posted
Posted

Thats great. No ads on free version.

 

So, if im correct, with the free version we will be able to to the same as vlite does with vista (about removing things) but without the ability to remove "meta" packages?

 

Well, if i can remove packages deep, remove languages unnecessary, remove other editions from the iso (like win 7 ultimate/home premium/home basic/etc), remove drivers, etc., why care about the pro? The "special thing" will make us want to migrate to the pro edition? I wonder what it this thing...

 

Anyway, its great to hear from You about this new tool. its great that You want to make this your "work" so you can earn some money for living and its great that You are happy about the release of it. No need for compatibility with servers, that was just an question, nothing more.. I hope You dont take too much time to release it for us! :)

 

 


yro, with the notion about removals, yes. Free version is nothing less than a pro without:

- majority of removals
- advanced driver operations, like removing undetected drivers for machine's hardware from the integration list
- winsxs cleanup (without picky DISM)

- auto-fill Unattended entries using host machine data
- and a special new thing :)

edit: So it supports Win7, 8, 8.1. 8.1.1. No server for now, and I don't know why would anyone touch a server which has a nice feature/role setup on its own, and it needs to be more reliable for remote management. Also there is Server Core for basic tiniest foundation.
Will see over time, depending on the reasons for that kind of support.

No ads on the free version.

yro

yro

Posted
Posted

holly cr$# I was wondering....

 

 

imagine an Windows 8.1.1 Pro, without all that crap things that it has, with some edits on the start menu... :)

 

nuhi, one last question: have you tested shrinking the win7 iso so it can fit on  CD but without loosing aero, network, drivers and the core things? is that possible? :P

nuhi

nuhi

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

yro, why would you think that whatever vLite removes was a package. As I said above only 10-20% of components will be free, those are made out of (smaller) packages. Big system packages, which usually contain majority of interesting Windows components, are not split and given for free.
Meaning, to reach moderate to small sizes of the ISO, you would need pro.

8.1.1 will be cleaner, but for the start menu we will have to wait for MS to make it, I also would like that.

 

Win7 Ultimate SP1 RTM x64, all removed but core things like aero work, current ISO size is 780MB, it might go to 800 with more drivers kept - you can choose individual drivers.
But you have to understand I still have a lot to add for removals, not done - there was no time due to other tasks.
32-bit however is already way below CD size.

Edited by nuhi
nuhi

nuhi

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Ponch, while you are right if we would take the title as solely nLite-related, because it is on its forum. This topic was also about me being back - as title describes, which includes the next tool discussion. It did pull into that direction more than necessary.

Now that cat is out of the bag, indeed I should close this topic and open elsewhere, vLite forum seems like a better location than this one.
However, I have nothing else to discuss about it really, until it's out and then it will have a dedicated location.

 

I'll unstick the topic so it slowly goes away, and if anyone wants to discuss more about the next tool, feel free to open a question at the vLite's forum.

jaclaz

jaclaz

Posted
Posted

Now that cat is out of the bag, indeed I should close this topic and open elsewhere, vLite forum seems like a better location than this one.

However, I have nothing else to discuss about it really, until it's out and then it will have a dedicated location.

Are you trying to invent a new kind of Schroedinger's cat, which is BOTH inside and outside the bag? :w00t::ph34r:

 

;)

 

:lol:

jaclaz

Kelsenellenelvian

Kelsenellenelvian

Posted
Posted

Nuhi, I fully applaud and support your decision to go paid software.

 

I need to say a couple of things though (Just personal opinions)
Subscription software is a P.I.A. but that's really your prerogative.

I am not going to be able to get a license so I won't be able to give help on the forums beyond the free version and the latest version of nLite.

 

Please by all means keep the F.A.Q. I wrote for nLite stickied and I will keep maintaining that too.

 

P.S. I am glad redmond got their hooks out of you...

markstrelecki

markstrelecki

Posted
Posted (edited)

Nuhi,

I think you'll have a MUCH more successful run at this if you sell a version outright, like xProductLite V1 for $50, and then sell V2 at a similar price with upgrade deals for those who purchased previous version(s).

Steve Gibson's Spinrite was sold on a sliding scale for upgraders - the older the version that you'd purchased, the more you paid for the latest and greatest.

Making software that requires updates frequently (anti-virus, security, etc.) is a tricky science. You MUST pay for the security updates, although they are more properly referred to as definitions.

Are you designing a product that is definition-based? I would think not, but it may/will need updates and fixes as the universe of sloppy users descends upon your code and makes it do stuff you never dreamed. And the forums can provide tech support, you don't need to handle that.

If you decide now, that V1 of your grand application will have this specific functionality, you should sell it outright and be done. The users (all of us) are gonna tell you on an hourly basis what we think will make it better, how we'd like to use it, and why the heck did you do it that way? <grin>

V2 could be the vehicle for those suggestions, and as long as you don't impair the rest of the product by extending and enhancing it, we'll buy the newer version because it does more and does it like we want it done.

You might also consider selling support contracts as an additional revenue stream. There will be power users as well as crazy noobs who want to do something weird and wonderful, and you should be able to monetize that level of support that would transcend anything freely available in these fine forums.

Subscriptions are bad because something I pay money for may stop working at some point. At least that's what most of us think when you say "subscription". My MaximumPC magazine will run out and I won't get any more issues - that's what I call a subscription. An important program/system utility must never cease to function. If it does, that's a big negative.

If you can detail the case for the types of "updates" you refer to, and the things that would truly add value to the product over time, then I might be willing to forgo my bias against a paid functional period in deference to a tool that's useful from Day One, and gets more complete and comprehensive over time.

If your idea of a subscription means that after the period is up you either renew or lose access to future updates, that is more reasonable than turning off the purchased capabilities of the software. Apologies if you already explained this, as I don't get a chance to hang out with y'all as much as I'd like.

As other fine folks here have said, I will support you in whatever path you take. I know what you can do and how I have benefited from many builds made with nLite. I can also afford to pay for the tools I get serious utility from, and I think your stuff falls in that category. But you have others who do not know of your sterling reputation and incredible gift for trimming and configuring the Windows operating system. They are the ones who will look at your purchase terms and possibly be scared off. Make your renewal plans as simple and as affordable as you can, and explain in no uncertain terms what folks are really buying with a "subscription".

In the forty years I've been in technology, I always say that I stand on the shoulders of giants to do the calibre and scope of the work I do. You and some here in these forums are the giants I rely upon to do the magic that I do, and I will be honored to support you as a paying customer, and thankful you've permitted me to offer my small seven cents worth of experience here in this grand new experiment of yours.

And how much longer will we need to wait to see your new baby?

Best wishes to you, now and always, from your biggest fan in Atlanta.
 

 

MARK STRELECKI

Edited by markstrelecki
nuhi

nuhi

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

jaclaz, ha!

Kelsenellenelvian, ok. I'm glad too.

 

markstrelecki, first thanks for those kind words and suggestions.
Indeed after some thinking between those 3 licensing models, I agree that major version upgrade is the way to go. That way people get unlimited fixes, and any smaller features added, with a one-time fee.

While big features, like new Windows support, will have an upgrade price.

 

Everyone is mentioning subscription software like I insist on it, but actually no, to me it was a bad idea due to the fact I would need to store many versions so that people can get the one where their license ran out of upgrade rights. I was just wondering what people want.

Btw only subscription model I was considering was that you get upgrades, including all new features, within a year of renewal. No one forbids, or disables all the older versions that you got before it expired.

That could have been better for the customer for a first few growing years, but later as the features slow down, the current major-version model is better.

 

Interesting idea of a rising upgrade price depending how much older the initial purchase was. Not sure if I am up for that complication, but it would be more fair to those that purchased let's say 3 months ago. Either way I have in plan to give upgrades for free to those who purchased pro 1-2 months before an upgrade was out. I may need to change that number, but the idea is sound.

 

Definition-based? Well, if you see hotfixes and big rollup updates as interrupting the balance, one could see it as such.

 

The beta free and a pro pre-purchase (basically a full version beta for the advantures people) could be out in a month I guess. Kinda collected a bigger todo while considering earlier release, still not ready.
 

 

So the plan is next: release as one version (32 and 64-bit tool), free + pro upgrade. It supports Win7-Win8.1. And if I collect enough bigger features in the future, or the next Windows support, it will have an upgrade price to keep me going.

 

In that way, if you can live without bigger new features sometimes in the future, and you stay on 7-8.1, you will keep on getting more and more removals, tweaks and stability without paying for anything except that initial pro license. And of course you get all the new free features.

Edited by nuhi
jaclaz

jaclaz

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

The beta free and a pro pre-purchase (basically a full version beta for the advantures people) could be out in a month I guess. Kinda collected a bigger todo while considering earlier release, still not ready.

You forgot to specify that you are talking of a latin month  ;), you should listen more to your (mute :w00t:) PR, and give not any forecast, least we'll have another bunch of posts of frenzied peeps wanting an update to the delivery date (or a preview, or more details, etc.).  :ph34r:

 

Just for the record, I approve of your NOT choosing a "subscription model" :yes:.

 

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
petrus

petrus

Posted
Posted

What about payment options, will you accept cash orders or paysafe cards for people without credit cards & paypal?

As you know software like this is very popular in eastern Europe & Russia, where they don't hand out ccs like candy.

 

I generally have no problem with going commercial, even better if it means that it will go above and beyond nlite & hfslip!

sixcentgeorge

sixcentgeorge

Posted
Posted
you are doing a big mistake with your complex registration system ....

it will be cracked as fastly as it happened to win8 8.1 despite the very complex system M$ created for registration

first of all : because the major thief in windows ' world is windows . do you still hear the winamp word or see it decoding mp3 ?

second of all because win9 will be free like apple os or linux

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

What matters, sixcentgeorge, is that those that know the amount of work involved and appreciate the years of effort put into these projects will have an easy and official method to show their support and encourage the creation of great software.

Kelsenellenelvian

Kelsenellenelvian

Posted
Posted (edited)

@ sixcentgeorge

 

Also win9 will definitely NOT be free.

 

Plus apple os is very arguable NOT free either. You pay 3x plus or more money for a apple system.

 

hmmm http://store.apple.com/us/product/D6106Z/A/os-x-lion

 

Personally with attitudes like your is why us small developers have to start charging at all. You wan't all the work and effort we put out for free.

 

Because my software is primarily free I frequently can't even afford things like internet or domain registration fees.

 

Next you'll want free gas and use the excuse that lots of people fill up thier tanks and just drive off without paying so why can't i?

 

I on many occasion have put in way over 60 hours a week into WPI and have in the last ten years received less than a months pay at minimum wage in unsolicited donations.

 

I would definitely after seeing your ungrateful crappy post think about not even having a free version at all....

Edited by Kelsenellenelvian
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