Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

[Win2k3EE]

Now that Tihiy's brought back the Start Menu and bigmuscle's bringing back the Aero in Windows 8...this OS might become usable.

Just like tune-up cars. Everyone wanted LED headlights and now the car manufacturers are offering that. Some put up a rear-view camera for better parking and now it's available for general public a.s.o. Windows 8 is going on the same road.

I think MS is re-thinking its marketing strategy.

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

... and the other hand, they got this... white THING... no borders, hidden scrollbars, mess of text... they call this design!!! *looooooooooooooooooooooooooool*

NOT TO MENTION THE ALL UPPER CASE CAPLOCKED MENU ITEMS, IT IS LIKE OFFICE 2013 IS YELLING AT YOU ALL THE TIME.

Like they just came from 1980 and never used Internet before... hahahahhahahahaha

That screenshot really is Exhibit-A for a company that has lost its way completely. Pretty much every possible bad idea is demonstrated simultaneously. Psychoanalysis of this design would require a panel of shrinks led by Freud. There are really no words to describe how bad that is.

There was a time when Outlook actually had a functional appearance, and almost any human being above age 5 could grasp its purpose. No longer. The old days of Visual Basic rapid application development and its often-criticized uniform visuals and functionality are now looking pretty darn good if you ask me.

What is amazing to me is just how bad this has become. Somehow, using the rather barebones concept of HTML + CSS they have still managed to design a monster. It is almost as if they assigned a special task force to go through every square inch of the user interface with a fine-toothed comb and purposely Seek and Destroy every last shred of usability and aesthetics. ( *** Mega bonus-points to the metal-head shredder who can spot the clue in that above image from ciHnoN that made me remember that Raven, not Metallica, song! )

P.S. Outlook ( and all Office ) devolution ...

Edited January 26, 2013 by CharlotteTheHarlot

[ciHnoN]

...

I don't even think that anywhere, anytime and anyone (except of course at la la land Microsoft) could call this a "design". It is simply a white sheet with some text on it. Like a draft. You draw thin lines here and there and say like "OK, here is the inbox, we put this there, and that over here and move this up", you know, how people draft stuff at a meeting. So they took something like this and just slapped it on Outlook and called it a day! Hey Microsoft, REALLY? That's your idea of design? I mean, for real?

These morons have billions and billions of dollar in cash and they come up with... a white colorless window and mess of text all over it?

Something is not right somewhere. I'm sure of it. I cannot imagine such a huge company, so many engineers and designers in there, this is what they come up with? Did they all collectively go insane or lost 100 points of IQ?

I cannot get over this. I keep waiting something to come out soon, like some whistle blower or SOMETHING. They cannot ALL have become retards? Is it something in the water?

I'm pretty sure there is a rotten fish somewhere in there and soon or later, it will float to the surface! (pun intended!)

*LOL*

Edited January 26, 2013 by ciHnoN

[Formfiller]

Wow, so many eightards in the comments here:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/24/technology/enterprise/microsoft-earnings/index.html

They are now demanding the kill-off of the desktop outright!

Finally, if it is just too new and scary for you, go back to the Win7 desktop. And having the legacy UI available by default is called bloat. And bloated software is undesirable.

And:

Desktop is not the future of computing. It is the past, like MS DOS.

Intel is mandating touch screens on all of it's next-gen laptops. You will not be able to make a device with the next-gen Intel chip if you don't put a touch screen on your laptop.

These dolts are worse than Sinofsky and Ballmer.

I doubt they are ALL shills (it would be actually comforting if that would be the case though). What's their motivation yearning for a touch-only smudge OS, that is hugely crippled to boot? WinRT API is extremely gimped. Something like Photoshop or Visual Studio is pretty much impossible on it due to its restrictions.

Seriously, what the heck is their motivation? I know what Microsoft's motivation is, but what is it in case of these über-eightards? If they want a pure consumption device, why don't they just buy an iPad and shut up? What drives them to destroy Windows?

Edited January 26, 2013 by Formfiller

[jaclaz]

The usual note about the use of "legacy" outside of it's meaning as a sort of pejorative term:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/legacy-is-not-a-pejorative.html

jaclaz

[JorgeA]

Now that Tihiy's brought back the Start Menu and bigmuscle's bringing back the Aero in Windows 8...this OS might become usable.

Just like tune-up cars. Everyone wanted LED headlights and now the car manufacturers are offering that. Some put up a rear-view camera for better parking and now it's available for general public a.s.o. Windows 8 is going on the same road.

I think MS is re-thinking its marketing strategy.

Staying in the aumotive analogy: what's happened is that, by leaving out factory parts that a lot of customers want (Start Button/Menu, Aero Glass, etc.), Microsoft has given a boost to the aftermarket.

Unfortunately, that screeching noise known as Metro/Modern UI is factory-installed and (AFAIK) can't be removed or switched out for something better. (Although it looks like Tihiy has covered up the noise pretty well with StartIsBack.)

But maybe they'll take a hint from the auto industry and bake features like Aero Glass and the Start Menu back into Win8 (or 9).

--JorgeA

Edited January 26, 2013 by JorgeA

[Win2k3EE]

But maybe they'll take a hint from the auto industry and bake features like Aero Glass and the Start Menu back into Win8 (or 9).

I really hope so.

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

They are now demanding the kill-off of the desktop outright!

...

These dolts are worse than Sinofsky and Ballmer.

Isn't it stunning? In my 2nd comment on this very thread ( see Post #417 ) I noticed this very insanity. Our so-called allies have become the very iSheep they claim to despise and never miss a chance to ridicule in every comment section. It is the most blatant case of cognitive dissonance imaginable. But they are far, far, far worse than those stereotyped iSheep.

Something occurred during the Vista debacle I think. I remember at first there was some friendly debate on the official Vista Team Blog during the beta phase. And then suddenly the issue of DRM and protected content path burst into the spotlight, sides were drawn, Microsoft hunkered down into a bunker mentality and and the baby sheep ( MicroLambs? ) were already saying stuff like: 'go ahead Microsodt, do it to us!'. In amazement I watched a grass roots groundswell of anti-Microsoft and anti-Vista sites and memes sprout up ( BadVista, VistaSucks, F*ckVista, etc ) . Then we saw the cynical and self-serving Mojave Experiment from Microsoft. But what I didn't notice was the breadth of the astroturfing campaign. By accident or design they nurtured these MicroLambs into MicroSheep and here we are.

I'm from the old days, I remember Microsoft before they got into Operating Systems and Apple when they were still competing with Commodore and Atari in a very small and new field. When IBM dropped its nuclear bomb with their PC and the "Little Tramp" Charlie Chaplin things began to move into the general publics' eye and the early battle lines were drawn between the open PC ( mostly IBM ) and proprietary Apple. The common perception is that Apple nurtured a radical unkempt base of loyal rabid fans made up of artists and musicians while IBM and Microsoft nurtured a following of uptight conservative business types ( and yes, this is decades before "I'm a Mac, I'm A PC" ). In my experience this view was pretty accurate to a point. I interacted with the "enemy", having many creative friends that only would use Macs, however there was no personal animosity that I can recall. Most of it was directly due to the Apple commercials and other things emanating out of Cupertino. IBM and Apple were certainly competitors to an extent, but there was much less potential customer overlap than people like to believe. Most Apple users would not buy IBM because they were not looking for DOS or Quasi-DOS command line applications preferring the more object oriented WYSIWYG approach from Apple. On the other hand we business types would rather be stuck with DOS and its 1000:1 ratio of applications compared to Macs and were happy to dispense with the frills to get the job done. It was classic Style versus Substance. In truth, IBM and their clones on one side and Apple on the other had the entire 1980's to their respective fan bases and customers all to themselves, a clear playing field. And it should be pointed out here that Microsoft played both sides effectively, supplying critical applications to Apple which in my opinion saved the company several times by giving them some credibility in the business arena, but not quite enough to make them a serious player in the market. Mac versions of Word and Excel and some other things sufficed for small or home business environments, but they were not enough to touch enterprise or even the average office. In fact I'm not sure that Apple ever really tried to become a business computer company at all ( they would run petty ads making fun of the competition and their user base rather than ads that showed a Mac doing everything a PC-AT could do and more ).

The 1990's with Windows 3.x and 9x brought the direct conflict, the look and feel issues, the ill will. Still I cannot recall Microsoft or any other of the "good guys" attacking Apple or evangelizing like we see today. We were too busy criticizing Microsoft and the OEMs for dragging their feet and not giving us what Apple had long had, a stable OS with a usable GUI. It wouldn't be until after 2000 that the PC and Macs were truly interchangeable IMHO, and even then the application ratio was still 1000:1 comparing PC to Mac. Apple continued with the cynical ads and I have no doubt that this ticked off lots of PC users, because it makes no sense to insult your potential customers. Even though Microsoft had long been on the receiving end of these insulting ad campaigns they failed to see this obvious mistake. Fast forward to recent Vista and current events and they have perfectly copied the obnoxious arrogant attitude that had long existed in Cupertino headquarters ( but not necessarily in the minds of Mac users ). The stunning thing to me is just how fast this occurred. We're talking perhaps 6 years total for Microsoft to create a rabid and retarded chorus of fanboys that clearly surpasses anything that the Apple amen-chorus ever did. It's not even a close call. Our so-called "friends" are the real creeps now. They are enablers of the worst kind, even demanding that Microsoft destroy Windows and become MicroApple right before our eyes. 'Please kill Windows, all its legacy, all its utility, all its customizability, all its history. Do this so that we can have childish consumer consumption appliances to play Angry Birds and Cut The Rope, and tweet on Twitter and stalk on Facebook. While you're at it, please give us Playskool and Romper Room little colored blocks so we can relive our childhoods.'

Who is to blame? Ballmer and Gates I think. Ballmer because he is a lifelong under-achiever and a classic product of the Peter Principle, and Gates because he lost his programming mojo long ago and after reading books about Carnegie and Nobel decided to spend his time buying himself a reputation. The Vanity Fair story offers one glimpse of the Microsoft disaster, and the Mini-Microsoft blog fills in some of the blanks in those comments by Softies and ex-Softies. There is no lofty goal there, no pretense of perfectionism, just pure business and marketing from a company that is a mere shell of the original. I'm not sure Gates and Allen ever had lofty goals anyway, but I believe that many of the 1980's and later programmers did. Unfortunately the crew cannot prevent the Titanic from crashing into an Iceberg if the Captain and first mate decide to race full steam ahead despite all warnings.

How did it happen? Well again, all over this thread we have long expressed the obvious that Microsoft, in particular Ballmer has a childish case of both Google-envy and Apple-envy. It is the most basest of instincts, jealousy. The "Lost Decade" article describes it well, especially the Google angle with throwing chairs: "He threw a chair against the wall. “F*cking Eric Schmidt is a f*cking p*ssy!” Ballmer yelled, according to the court document. “I’m going to f*cking bury that guy! I have done it before and I will do it again. I’m going to f*cking kill Google.”". Now if you realize that sometime after that craziness while Ballmer is fixated on Google ( and almost dumped $45 billion to buy Yahoo! ), Apple comes along and drops the iMacs, MacBooks, iPods, iPhones, and iPads onto the marketplace and gobbles up all the pent-up customer base while fathead is still obsessing over the other guy. This caused even more fury, more envy, more jealousy. Ballmer cracked at this point I believe and just decided to give in to Apple-envy and become MicroApple by copying every single thing he could copy. Obviously him ( and Gates ) should have been removed in the Google-envy period, but the stock market is comprised of idi0ts if you watch the analysts and the day-to-day happenings. They are oblivious to these facts.

This, I believe is where we come in. Speaking for myself, I avoided the Apple-universe precisely because it was an arrogant, petty, locked-down walled-garden model of shallow consumerism. Ballmer's moves can only offend those on the "PC side" who have a moral compass, value freedom of choice, and possess personal integrity. I see his actions as a direct attack on me, no different than the cynical Cupertino ads of the past. They are similar because they are really the same. Earlier I said: "Steve Jobs did not die, he is haunting the halls of Microsoft possessing the body of Sinofsky". Actually he is possessing all of their management upper levels, Gates, Ballmer, Julie, Jensen and others. This is exactly why there is such an outcry these days. Many people see what is happening. Some fixate on the Start Menu, others on Aero Glass, others on the Store, others on UEFI, but it is all part and parcel of the big picture, Microsoft's cynical move to become Apple and believing they can just sheppard us along like a herd of mSheep. Ballmer is so thick headed he ignores others like Electronic Arts and Sony ( to name just a couple ) that took a giant crap on their veteran users and loyal customers at his own peril. What is most offensive to me is the attempt to cash in on their near total monopoly of x86 computers, folks that mostly did not ask for Windows but got it by default due to their OEM backroom maneuvers, a grand scheme to convert this current and future captive audience to their own private field of cows to be milked at will. They should be broken up just for this alone.

So back to the mSheep. These are the enablers. For every drunk or drug abuser out there you will find enablers that shirk their responsibility and scratch their heads when the subject wraps their car around a tree later. NeoWin and The Verge are over-run by them these days, largely because the operators ( yeah, I mean you Steven ) would rather enjoy large click counts than take a firm stand on integrity. Whatever. So lots of us that were there from the early days just left. You cannot argue with children ( they have no faculty for logic ) or the wild-eyed Windows 8 and Metro religious cult evangelists ( they've been saved and are headed for the promised land of good and plenty Angry Birds ). But we can scorn them and ridicule them. And when they help Microsoft complete their slow steady march to corporate suicide we can criticize them for accomplishing what Steve Jobs could never even dream of doing in his own lifetime.

It may now be inevitable because when you have an amen chorus supporting every move no matter how insane, the ability to effect course correction is overwhelmed by sheer momentum. But we can still try. Hey, at least there is entertainment value in this. I am really hoping that Microsoft adjusts their plan and restores the Start Menu just so we can watch fanboy heads exploding at those forums. If that happens it will be easy to push them over the ledge into complete insanity.

[Kelsenellenelvian]

I have a friend that owns one of the 3 pc retailers and repair shops in town and was talking with her about win8.

While they are not out right declaring war on win8 they have been inundated with people wanting to downgrade....

They also highly suggest to people who are buying new pcs to go custom built and stay with win7.

[ciHnoN]

Enablers indeed... and fools. These are not citizens or people in my humble opinion. They are empty shells. They are no longer "human". What the big corporation sais, they will do. What TV sais, they will do. What gets advertised, they will buy and love. It's really that simple.

Here is another moron from Channel 9...

http://channel9.msdn...6bba15201468d7c

That's already possible in Windows8. You just go here: http://www.stardock....roducts/start8/ and click install.

In many respects, Stardock actually solved this whole problem for Microsoft. Instead of Microsoft having to build a supported dual-start-menu to help people transition, Stardock have done it for them. This alleviates Microsoft of the need to test, localize, support, maintain and configure the app for the next decade, just in order to help people with the transition from a start menu to a start screen.

The default for Windows8 is great for "normal" users, but for the folks where losing the start menu is non-negotiable, they can upgrade to Windows8 and get Stardock. From Microsoft's perspective this is great!

His post is almost creepy. He actually recommends "Just go get Start8" and at the same time praises this abomination Windows 8. *lol*

The removal of start menu was a genius move. It distracted people SO MUCH and they all forgot about the locked boots and walled garden. Amazing isn't it?

EDIT: I personally actually only use Opera and Outlook. Sometimes Skype/RadioIO/Spotify and for work, Visual Studio. I'm glad I never got addicted to software in a way I get locked into one OS. It seems that soon, I will be running some BSD version. I can do without Outlook. I'll be OK without Skype/RadioIO/Spotify... a virtual machine for VS and I'll be set. Basically, what Ballmer is doing is to force people like me away from Windows. I really did love Windows before Windows 8. Never thought I would be looking for options to leave it. What little I need in Windows can be virtualized, out of sight... and out of mind.

Edited January 26, 2013 by ciHnoN

[submix8c]

From everything I've found about Win8, it's built for the "consumer". It reminds me of The Galactic Empire Trilogy (Isaac Asimov).

-----

"All right. Suppose I were to blast a vital part into nothingness? I suppose the machines aren't immune to nuclear forces? Suppose I fuse a vital connection, or smash a quartz D-tube?"

"Well, then," shouted the tech-man, furiously, "you would be killed."

"Yes, I know that," Mallow was shouting, too, "but what about the generator? Could you repair it?"

"Sir," the tech-man howled his words, "you have had a fair return. You've had what you asked for. Now get out! I owe you nothing more!"

Mallow bowed with a satiric respect and left.

-----

Summary - "dumbed-down" to the point where nobody will understand it but everyone will use it because they're (willingly) forced to but if it breaks, eventually nobody can fix it. But that's OK... "Oooh! SHINY and PRETTY!".

[TELVM]

Man I just can't stand all this 'eightard' nonsense about an interface being 'obsolete' just because it's not 'fresh today'.

If an interface works fine, it works fine, and until someone invents something REALLY TRULY better, professionals stick to it not giving a s*** if it was invented yesterday or a century ago.

The Red Baron's Fokker Triplane, 1917:

Eurofighter Typhoon, 2013:

You seriously mess with that, be prepared for royal aborted take-offs and crashes ...

[ciHnoN]

From http://channel9.msdn...ows-8-copypaste

does anyone know of a way to copy and paste in windows 8? I have been scanning in recipes and stuff that I lost in my old computer from superstorm sandy and although they are going into a folder on my new computer, I can't find a way to copy and paste them into my new recipe program, I've tried everything, I'm so upset I wasted my money on this computer I hate windows 8 it wont let you do anything like 7 or xp did

@vseawitch: Windows 8 deprecated the "C" and "V" keys from the keyboard so you're out of luck. Sorry.

hahahhahhhahhaa... they are removing EVERYTHING from Windows it seems. The future: "Hello, this is TV Windows. You have a limited number of TV-channels applications Apps with limited functionality to use. You may only use these pre-approved ones which only we allow you to use. You may not install from any other source than our pre-selected walled garden. It is of course for your own security."

Edited January 27, 2013 by ciHnoN

[jaclaz]

That seems like a (bad) joke.

However:

http://www.veodin.com/windows-shortcuts/windows-8-explorer-shortcuts/

Windows 8 Explorer Shortcuts

Windows 8 has recently been released and, of course, KeyRocket supports all the keyboard shortcuts available in the latest Microsoft Operating System. Check out all of the new Windows 8 shortcuts.

So as you browse our Shortcut Database, keep in mind that there is an easier way!

KeyRocket, our shortcut notification app, teaches you the shortcuts that you need. While you are working, KeyRocket analyses your mouse movements and suggests time-saving Windows 8 shortcuts via a small notification window in the corner of your screen. KeyRocket keeps track of your progress and only displays notifications for key sequences that you haven’t learned yet, so it never interrupts your work.

KeyRocket offers a unique solution to an old problem; memorizing lists of Windows 8 shortcuts downloaded from websites like this. With KeyRocket you will soon master Windows 8 and become the most productive person in your office.

KeyRocket also supports Windows 8, 7, XP and Vista as well as MS Office Suite 2007 and 2010 (Excel, Word, Outlook, PowerPoint). In all that’s about 1,700 shortcuts.

CTRL+C and CTRL+V are there allright.

jaclaz

[Win2k3EE]

OMG!OMG!OMG! They removed Ctrl+C & Ctrl+V? :blink:

Well, now It's official. Balmer & co. are nuts. They must be locked up under adult supervision.