SATA to IDE adapters: which/what/why?

[dencorso]

CAUTION: Do *NOT* buy any adapter based on the SunplusIT SPIF223A chip!

Full thread Summary, thanks to bphlpt

Suggestions for improvement, by PM only, are welcome.

BTW, the real thread starter for this thread is shae, and the original initial post is the next one. I've inserted this post just to add the Summary to the thread, but that also makes me the apparent OP, so I decided to add this note to point out who the real thread starter is.

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Good

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Best are based on the Marvell 88SA8040, most widely known among them are those made by Rosewill. But availability is scarce if at all. Such as:

SATA Bridge Board -- IDE-SATA07 -- Parallel ATA to Serial ATA Host Mode Bridge Board featuring Marvell 88SA8052 Bridge Controller

shae -- A manufacturer page for an adapter based on Marvell 88SA8052, with leds and M/S jumper, but without a "fence" around the IDE connector (I really hated those on old HDDs/mobos). The specs say 1.5Gbit, though the Marvell chip should support 3.0Gbit.

dencorso -- That is the famous "Rosewill IDE-SATA07 adapter" based on Marvell 88SA8052, referenced in this thread elsewhere and said to be very good. I actively looked for it but did not find any actually for sale, regardless of whether they would ship to Brazil or not. It seems its production has been discontinued. It was the successor to the long-ago discontinued legendary "Rosewill IDE-SATA01 adapter", which was based on the Marvell 88SA8040.

rloew -- Marvell wrote the Firmware for the Highpoint Card I mentioned before that does not support more than 2TiB, so it is possible there could be an issue above 2TiB.

shae -- At least judging from their site listing, that UK seller still has the item, though on a 2 month backorder.

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dencorso -- [...] the adapters based on JM20330 simply convert the interface, but don't affect much the final tranfer rates.

rloew -- It may be of interest that the JM20330 based adapter card combined with a Promise card will correctly handle a 3TB Drive and probably much larger.

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__974552

shae -- Q: rloew, would 48-bit support guarantee proper support for 2TB+ on both the SATA and IDE sides?

rloew -- A: Since there are no 3TB PATA Drives, I had no reason to test it. I would not be surprised if the PATA<->SATA Adapter supports full 48-Bit LBA both ways, but support still requires that the Controller Firmware support full 48-Bit Addressing. The Promise Card labelled "Maxtor ATA133" does support full 48-Bit Addressing as have the SATA PCI and PCI-E cards, I have tested, except the Highpoint Cards. Motherboard BIOSes do NOT. So a DDO is required for every Motherboard connected Hard Drive. The Highpoint AHCI cards are totally incompatable with Windows 9x.

DOS and Windows 9x require additional Patches to support more than 2TiB.

dencorso -- All bidirectional adapters I've ever found have a problem: when you connect one of them to the mobo PATA connector, they'll give you just one sata channel (the master channel), so that you loose one device connection (the slave connection). They always have one PATA and two SATA connectors on the board, but one SATA conector can be used only when converting SATA --> PATA and the other only when connecting PATA --> SATA, so you cannot actually use both at the same time, as you'd need if they were capable of accepting both a master and a slave channel at the same time.

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Marked MM-PATA330-V 1.1 and is made in China by I/O Crest

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120544543484?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

PATA To SATA Adapter Converter ATA IDE Devices -- M8-3-SY-IDE-SATAHD MM-PATA223A-V1.0 (?)

Based on the JMicron JM20330

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__974339

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__974555

Adapts a SATA drive to a PATA motherboard

Seems same as MM-PATA330-V 1.1 (?):

SYBA Serial ATA SATA to IDE/PATA Adapter Cable HD HDD

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130562838636

New generic SYBA PATA to SATA Device Adapter

This PATA to SATA adapter allows you to use your SATA drive on an older computher which without SATA ports

Serial ATA (SATA) compliant with Serial ATA 1.0

Parallel ATA (PATA) Ultra ATA / 133 Parallel Interface

48 bit sector addressing

PATA: IDE 2 x 20 pin male connector with molex power connector

Master Slave device switchable: Supports using 2 adapters on the same ATA / IDE channel

OEM Part Number: SY-IDE-SATAHD

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__974555

dencorso -- Yes. That is the MM-PATA330-V1.1, all right! The I/OCrest site address actually redirects to Syba's site, and that's where I found the .pdf of the printed manual i gace a link to (which is identical to the printed one I received with the adapter I bought and tested, down to its misspelled title: "Mamual").

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http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__979897

pointertovoid -- To connect a Sata cable on a Pata disk I have an RXD-628B (or RXD-6288?) card with a chip RXD 001 plus something lengthy. Dirt-cheap at eBay, and it works very well, with 75MB/s contiguous throughput just as the disks provides in Pata; access time in 0.2ms longer.

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Worked, but didn't fit for laptop use:

jaclaz -- What you are asking is a "piggyback" board that fits in the back of a SATA 2.5" HD and makes it IDE/ATA compatible to a laptop (44 pin) connection AND that fits inside your notebook?

Such adapters are (AFAIK) VERY rare, and it is doubtful whether there is enough space inside the notebook, here is one: http://www.cooldrives.com/2sahadrtoide.html

Serial ATA TO IDE Converter Board with POS:STI-P

Works with all SATA Drives up to 500GB in Capacity.

44 Pin IDE Connector Powers the Drive No Other Cables or Adapters are needed, just place this in between your SATA Drive and your 44 Pin IDE Cable Connector (IDC 44pin type) and You are now ready to use a SATA Drive.

Supports IDE with data transfer rate up to 66/100/133MB/s

Suitable for POS Systems (will not fit into most laptops) Great for all Mini Computers that use 44 pin IDE connector and require an upgrade to new SATA 2.5 Inch Drives.

Model No. SATAIDE-POS

Suitability 2.5 SATA HDD

Interface IDE

Dimension 69 x 14 x 17.5 mm (L x W xH)

Convert Any SATA I or SATA II Hard Drive into a 44-Pin IDE Drive, Powered by 44-Pin IDE Cable.

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__979559

tomasz86 -- So I actually ordered one of these adapters. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find a slim one, only a similar thing to the one mentioned above.

I checked my notebook and I think it should fit with an SSD after removing the case [...]

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__980112

tomasz86 -- I connected a 5200 rpm SATA drive to my notebook using the adapter I mentioned before and it's detected in BIOS although its size isn't reported correctly. I guess the BIOS can detect only up to 160 GB (the drive itself has 250 GB).

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__980151

tomasz86 -- [...] This notebook (Samsung SENS Q10) was made around 2002 and there's been no BIOS updates released at all.

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__982862

tomasz86 -- Jaclaz was right. The first adapter was too tall to fit in the notebook, even when the SSD was used without its case.

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Worked in a laptop with stripped SSD:

2.5" SATA SSD HDD driver to IDE 44Pin Converter Adapter

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170630989456

* 7+15 PIN SATA hard disk to 44 PIN IDE interface,make the new 2.5-inch sata hdd to be used on the old IDE motherboard, if you want a product to install 2.5 inch sata hard drive to the old IDE motherboard , this is the best option

* Chip: JM20330

* Consistent with Serial ATA 1.0 specification, the max transfer rates up to 150MB/s

* Support ATA 66/100/133

* Hot-swappable,don't need any driver

* Supports DOS, Win98/SE, 2000, Server 2003, XP, Vista, 7, Sever 2008 & Mac OS & Linux.

* Size:69 mm

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__982862

tomasz86 -- First of all, I can say that everything works properly and there are no problems with stability. The SSD is detected properly in the BIOS and also when installing Windows. As it's a 64 GB capacity drive there are no issues with the BIOS too (its limit is 160 GB).

Fit inside Samsung SENS Q10 notebook with disassembled SSD

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Bad

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HXSP-071218 - based on SunplusIT SPIF223A

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__971234

jaclaz -- [...] the spif223a is rated as being capable of haveing full ATA speed:

http://www.sybausa.com/productInfo.php?iid=372

http://www.sunplusit.com/english/products/storage/SPIF223A.aspx

http://uploadpdf.ic37.com/2009-2-25/SPIF223A_www.ic37.com.pdf

dencorso -- That's why I said I'm not sure the chip is to blame... most probably conception of the adapter board is flawed. Too bad 95% of what one finds for sale right now is that adapter I posted a pic of, in two flavours: with 2 electrolytic caps below the IDE connector (as in the pic I posted) or with 2 smd tantalum ones instead. Neither works, in my experience.

dencorso -- The other adapter based on the SunPlusIT chip was detected correctly and supported master, slave and cable select modes. It seemed to work OK, but SpinRite 6.0, NDD, SCANDISK and chkdsk all found lots of bad sectors in both HDDs, which do not exist when they are connected directly via SATA interface or using any of the two adapters based on the JMicron chip. So it is flawed and not recommended at all. I shall post about it last.

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SATA to IDE Hard Disk Mini Vertical Bridge Adapter Card

http://dx.com/p/sata-to-ide-hard-disk-mini-vertical-bridge-adapter-card-12537

shae -- An apparent JM20330 one on DealExtreme for less than 5$, with M/S/CS mode. But one review complains it failed within a few minutes taking the drive with it. (Also unclear why the jumper legend is on the inner side.)

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__974555

dencorso -- No. Despite the site's photo showing it using the JM20330, at least one customer got one with a SunplusIT SPIF223A, besides myself, judging from the customers photos and comments. It seems both chips are pin-to-pin compatible, and this complicates things even more... That one is not based on the JM20330 at all. It is, in fact, the second type of adapter based on the SunplusIT SPIF223A chip that I tested. Its identifier is HW629D Rev 3.1. Even the package is exactly the same. The one that caused false multiple errors, about which I posted above. Whatever the price, it must be avoided. It's flawed, but appears to work OK, until one tries to chkdsk it.

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http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__979897

pointertovoid -- To connect a Pata ribbon on a Sata disk I had a Hxsp-071218 card which is bad. It blocked an otherwise sound Bios with safe sizes everywhere, or run at the Bios but not with Seatools, FDisk, or as a secondary disk on W2k... I don't use it any more.

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Unknown - No verified testing by MSFN members

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2.5" SATA SSD HDD driver to mini 44pin IDE adapter 5014

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-SATA-SSD-HDD-driver-mini-44pin-IDE-adapter-5014-/220752756189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3365e3bddd

1.support SATA Drives up to 500GB

2.Supports IDE 66/100/133MB/s

4. No need driver ,plug and play,but not support hot swappable.

Notice: it doesn't support 3.5"SATA HDD as power is not 12V.

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2.5"Serial SATA HDD To 44Pin Male IDE Adapter Converter

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-5-Serial-SATA-HDD-44Pin-Male-IDE-Adapter-Converter-/150614852456?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D15%26pmod%3D220597189265%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D2222327709334534724

2.5" sata serial ata hard disk to ide Converter Adapter

* 7+15 PIN SATA hard disk to 44 PIN IDE interface,make the new 2.5-inch sata hdd to be used on the old IDE motherboard, if you want a product to install 2.5 inch sata hard drive to the old IDE motherboard , this is the best option

* Chip: JM20330

* Consistent with Serial ATA 1.0 specification, the max transfer rates up to 150MB/s

* Support ATA 66/100/133

* Hot-swappable,don't need any driver

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2.5" SATA SSD HDD driver to mini 44pin IDE adapter 5005

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-SATA-SSD-HDD-driver-mini-44pin-IDE-adapter-5005-/220774274840?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33672c1718

1.support SATA Drives up to 500GB

2.Supports IDE 66/100/133MB/s

4. No need driver ,plug and play,but not support hot swappable.

Notice: it doesn't support 3.5"SATA HDD as power is not 12V .if you want to use 2.5"SATA HDD as your laptop 2.5"IDE HDD.

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1.8" 16pin Micro SATA SSD to 2.5"44pin IDE adapter card

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-16pin-Micro-SATA-SSD-2-5-44pin-IDE-adapter-card-/220775113085?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336738e17d

1.Chipset: JM20330

2.Support 3.3V or 5V Micro SATA Device

4. No need driver ,plug and play,but not support hot swappable.

5.convert your 1.8"micro sata SSD/HDD as 2.5" IDE HDD.

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2.5" to 3.5" IDE HDD 40 Pin Male 44 Pin Female Adapter

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-3-5-IDE-HDD-40-Pin-Male-44-Pin-Female-Adapter-/330450302006?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf05f7436

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2.5'' TO 3.5'' IDE HARD DRIVE CONVERTER CABLE ADAPTER

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-3-5-IDE-HARD-DRIVE-CONVERTER-CABLE-ADAPTER-/150475889431?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23090fdb17

Brand new 2.5'' to 3.5'' IDE hard drive converter cable

Allow you to connect your 2.5' laptop hard disk drive to your desktop PC

Connector on One End: IDE hard drive 40-pin Male

Connector on The Other End: Laptop hard drive 44-pin Female

This adapter can make you use a 44 pin laptop hard drive like a regular 40 pin IDE hard drive

Suitable for PC, Notebook

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Serial ATA SATA 7+15P HDD To 3.5 IDE Adapter Converter

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140619484951

Stable chipset JM20330

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/152483-sata-to-ide-adapters-whichwhatwhy/page__view__findpost__p__983783

Seems there was some success, but also some unresolved issues. Unclear where the fault lies.

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See here - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416883 - for other comments

Addonics ADSAIDE SATA to IDE-ATAPI Converter.

Sabrent SBT-SCIDE converts PATA drives to SATA and is based on Jmicron JM20330. However, one reviewer found out that it wont read anything larger than 100 g.

[osRe]

I want to get a SATA to IDE adapter, one of those that plug behind the drive, to connect modern drives to an ASUS P2B. It's probably going to be one of those that sell on eBay for a few dollars (it's cheaper than getting a native PATA drive, and more forward compatible).

What's good or bad? What is there to know about compatibility or reliability? Specific chips to look for? Is the disk size a concern for those adapters? SATA flavors? AHCI? Master/slave/CS? SMART?

I do have a SATA controller in that computer used for its eSATA, but for static internal drives somehow IDE seems safer to me for boot drives and for Win9x in general.

Edited July 19, 2011 by shae

[dencorso]

I'm currently working on it. Whatever you do, don't buy the ones labeled HXSP-071218! (see pic below)

They only work with 40 wire ribbon cables, thus limiting the interface to Ultra ATA-33 (or ATA-4), and slow a SATA drive to a crawl.

Unfortunately, those are the most commonly findable on eBay. They are based on the SunplusIT SPIF223A chip.

However, I cannot, at this moment, decide whethter the HXSP-071218 are just the result of a flawed project, or if the SPIF223A is really flawed itself.

And be sure to buy one that has a jumper (or switch) for MASTER/SLAVE selection.

Apparently the best are based on the Marvell 88SA8040, but those are not easy to find.

The most widely known among them are those made by Rosewill.

See this thread, elsewhere, for more details.

I've bought two different ones, which should be arriving soon. After I test them, I'll let you know.

[tomasz86]

I would recommend getting a PCI SATA controller. I tried a few of these cheap adapters and there was ALWAYS problem with them. Either it was reduced to ATA-33 (as dencorso pointed out) or it was working very unstable (connection lost when copying larger number of files, etc.).

Edited July 20, 2011 by tomasz86

[jaclaz]

I have used in the past one of the "bidirectional-type", which have a different "shape", like these:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=RXD639-IDE-SATA-ADP&cpc=SCH

it was just for "emergency", but it did work with 80-pin cables and "acceptable" speed (didn't measure it, at the time, but I would have noticed an ATA-33 speed).

Cannot really say which chip it was based.

BTW, and OT, IMHO a little lead in an adapter:

WARNING: The solder used in this product contains lead, a chemical known to the State of California to cause birth defects and other reproductive harm. Please wash hands after handling internal components and circuit boards and avoid inhalation of fumes if heating the solder.

is UNlikely to provoke *anything* , after all the human race did not became extinct notwithstanding saturnism (which needs quite a bigger amount of lead to be absorbed):

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/saturnism

@dencorso

the spif223a is rated as being capable of haveing full ATA speed:

http://www.sybausa.com/productInfo.php?iid=372

http://www.sunplusit.com/english/products/storage/SPIF223A.aspx

uploadpdf.ic37.com/2009-2-25/SPIF223A_www.ic37.com.pdf

jaclaz

[dencorso]

I got that datasheet too. That's why I said I'm not sure the chip is to blame... most probably conception of the adapter board is flawed. Too bad 95% of what one finds for sale right now is that adapter I posted a pic of, in two flavours: with 2 electrolytic caps below the IDE connector (as in the pic I posted) or with 2 smd tantalum ones instead. Neither works, in my experience.

[osRe]

Thanks. Interesting thread there, but focused on those video-specific devices. Looks like there are newer chips that support SATA2. I wonder if that matters even if IDE is slower than SATA1.

I don't know's what the deal with only working at 33MB/sec, but it's not a major concern for my intended use which is limited to that rate anyway.

tomasz: I don't want to use a SATA controller for the above reasons. I also disable/enable the controller on the fly in 9x to make it detect eSATA properly, which would be another problem.

[esecallum]

I got that datasheet too. That's why I said I'm not sure the chip is to blame... most probably conception of the adapter board is flawed. Too bad 95% of what one finds for sale right now is that adapter I posted a pic of, in two flavours: with 2 electrolytic caps below the IDE connector (as in the pic I posted) or with 2 smd tantalum ones instead. Neither works, in my experience.

i use the sata/ide adapter all the time the one with the 2 electro caps.it works great.cost me 1.50 each from china.you need to adjust bios for legacy compatiblity.

it means i can use sata drive and connect it to a ide connector.i can do anything.do backups,copy 300000 files,etc

i measured the speed and it is 30 mb/sex using unstobable copier and manual methods.

all this talk about sata 1 sats 3 sata 4 going up to transfer speeds 1ghz 2ghz and 3 ghz is pure rubbish.it is simply the interface speed.the hard drive platters/heads can never achieve it ever.

a hard drive would explode if it tried to tansfer data at that speed.

the speed is limited by the MECHANICAL platters speed and the MECHANICAL head write/read speed.

sata 1,sata 2 ,sata 3, is all pure marketing rubbish to rob us of money.

it is like widening a door for a herd of tortoises.

[osRe]

you need to adjust bios for legacy compatiblity.

It appears to the system as IDE, so what legacy settings do you mean?

it is simply the interface speed.the hard drive platters/heads can never achieve it ever.

Modern large HDDs reach 150-160MB/sec at the beginning of the disk, so exhausting SATA1. The fastest SSDs can triple that speed; that is beyond SATA2 capabilities, hence the need for 6Gbit/sec (which will likely be surpassed at the consumer high-end within a year or two). Edited July 20, 2011 by shae

[allen2]

you need to adjust bios for legacy compatiblity.

It appears to the system as IDE, so what legacy settings do you mean?

it is simply the interface speed.the hard drive platters/heads can never achieve it ever.

Modern large HDDs reach 150-160MB/sec at the beginning of the disk, so exhausting SATA1. The fastest SSDs can triple that speed; that is beyond SATA2 capabilities, hence the need for 6Gbit/sec (which will likely be surpassed at the consumer high-end within a year or two).

Although i don't agree with esecallum, which sata hard drive can really achieve such speed and which ssd can provide more than 400MB/s (except pci-e based one) on incompressible data ?

There are a lot of other factors than interface speed that provide in the end more speed to the end user (like NCQ and i don't how it could work through an ide controller but with a specific driver perhaps).

[osRe]

allen, HDD max sequential transfer speed graph (article here), and SSDs.

[dencorso]

Good news! This adapter works flawlessly! It's marked MM-PATA330-V 1.1 and is made in China by I/O Crest.

The seller doesn't say it, but it's based on the JMicron JM20330. The one I bought is almost identical to the one in the photos except it has a three-pin header and a jumper, instead of the microswitch, to select between master and slave. I've tested it using a SATA I TOSHIBA MK6034GSX 60 GB 2.5" HDD I've saved after upgrading a laptop which needed a bigger HDD. My tests included connecting it as master (with a normal IDE HDD as slave) and as slave (with a normal IDE HDD as master), both directly on the 1st IDE port of an ASUS A7V600-X board based desktop, and then connecting it, again first as master then as slave, through a Promise TX2 Ultra 100 PCI add-on CARD. And I compared both situations with the SATA HDD connected directly to the motherboard via one of its SATA ports. It worked beautifully, and passed tests under pure MS-DOS 7.10 with Eric Auer's dosfsck 2.11 (15 Apr 2006), Win ME (DOS) Scandisk, NDD (DOS v. 2002 ..10E) and SpinRite 6.0, and under Win XP SP3, with chkdsk. Also under Win XP SP3 I tested its speed using Crystal DiskMark 2.2 and found out the adapter does not affect the disk speed in any of the configurations tested. This is the fourth different adapter I've bought, and the only one to perform flawlessly troughout all the tests I was able to perform. I do recommend it, despite the fact that, at US$11 each, it was the most expensive IDE-SATA adapter I've bought: it's worth every cent of it. There's a manual for it downloadable here, although it's quite terse.

.....

[bphlpt]

Your tests all seem to be for adapting a SATA drive to a PATA motherboard connection. I've seen some documentation for some adapters that say their adapter works bi-directionally - ie also for PATA drive to SATA motherboard connection. Do you know if this adapter also does this?

Cheers and Regards

[dencorso]

Yes I do: no it doesn't!

All bidirectional adapters I've ever found have a problem: when you connect one of them to the mobo PATA connector, they'll give you just one sata channel (the master channel), so that you loose one device connection (the slave connection). They always have one PATA and two SATA connectors on the board, but one SATA conector can be used only when converting SATA --> PATA and the other only when connecting PATA --> SATA, so you cannot actually use both at the same time, as you'd need if they were capable of accepting both a master and a slave channel at the same time.

That said, I guess that converters of this kind based on the JMicron JM20330 are the best bet available, nowadays, since the Marvell 88SA8040 and its successors, if any, are not in production anymore, and I, for one, am, by now, convinced that the omnipresent SunplusIT SPIF223A chip *is* flawed.

[tomasz86]

Good to know about this, dencorso

I'll look for this adapter if I ever need to use one in the future.