saugatak

Atomic, check out FDV's fileset. You can nLite an FDV Win2k and get the best of both worlds. They're both great and each has its advantages. I've played with both and this is what I think: 1. FDV fileset is for Win2k only and is specialized for Win2k. nLite can be used on 2k, XP and 2k3, but it's really geared for XP and I think it works best on XP. 2. FDV fileset does a "cleaner" job on IE and OE removal. Lots of programs think they need IE. FDV fileset prunes the registry and does other hacks to fool the OS and other programs into thinking IE and OE are there when they're not. 3. If you don't want to do IE/OE removal, nLite is the better choice. FDV's fileset is highly specialized on IE and OE removal for Win2k only. 4. An nLited install CD is usually smaller in size than an FDV CD. nLite actually removes the physical components. FDV fileset does less removal in the actual CD, but at install time does not install the stuff that you've taken out. *BUT I understand that FDV is working to reduce the install size on his latest fileset.* The end result--not installing files you don't want--is the same, just that the FDV Wkn2k install CD will be a little bigger. 5. If you elect to nLite an FDV Win2k, don't remove IE or any other component of the OS that FDV removed and you'll be OK. Good luck.

nite thanks for posting the file. noticed that you include a bunch of files that tommyp does not. any reason for this?

OK I've looked into this a bit more, and I have to say, this is kind of a PITA. You need a Win98SE valid copy (check); You need Win95 OSR 2.1 or earlier; You need Win ME (if you want to replace Win98SE dlls with ME dlls). That's 3 OS's to buy to build 1 decent IE free fast OS. You're not even using the other OS's other than to take a few dlls from Win95, and a bunch of dlls from WinME. I replace a few dlls in Win2k with Win2k3 and WinXP dlls. Not a big deal because I can download and use SP1 or SP1 respectively. Are there similar service packs for Win95 and WinMe out there?

Crash: As always, good advice. On these old PC's though, I don't really want to do anything on them other than email, browsing and a little wordprocessing. I'd love to get like a 40-50 MB install of Win98SE on some of these old comps. I don't mind paying $25 for WinLite if it can help me do that, worth it.

So you're telling me that Intel's 64 bit chips are powering high-end database servers? I'm not talking about 32 bit architecture here. I don't think anyone's using Itanium and on the x64, Intel is playing catch-up to AMD. Anyway, we'll see where the market goes. It's always refreshing to see logic refuted by a blanket "You're talking out your a$$."

To use 98lite, do you need a copy of Win95 to swap out Win98 files for Win95 files? OR Does 98lite provide them?

You guys are tempting me to pull out my old Win98SE, see if I can tweak it to take everything out, and see how it runs on my old, old computers. Heh, maybe give one to my parents so they can get emailed photos. Anyone know an easy way to get rid of IE and Outlook Express on 98SE?

@kalo, heh a stripped down Win2k must make for an A$$ kicking gaming rig. FDV and TommyP are working on new beta versions right now. Kalo, did you use beta versions or the older versions at FDV's site? @FDV, let us know when the latest fileset is ready to go, especially the revised WSH.inf

Sorry Expert It's pretty cool the experimenting going on here with FDV fileset and nLite. Reading everyone's posts, just shows how much "behind the scenes" work is going on with FDV's fileset.

I've always felt the flakiness of AMD has to do with: 1. inferior chipsets mainly 2. Intel compiler being "optimized" (i.e., bugs specifically designed to help Intel processors). I don't feel either of these 2 are at issue with the latest and greatest from AMD. AMD now has top quality chipsets, equal to anything from Intel. AMD has invented the x86 compatible 64 bit chipset. Windows XP 64 bit is optimized for the AMD chip. The compilers were designed by AMD so I'm sure they introudced their own bugs to screw up Intel's version of these chipsets. Plus, AMD's dual core 64 bit chips kill Intel's. So my analysis is: 1. Chips: AMD kicks Intel 2. Chipset: = 3. Compiler: edge to AMD So if I were to make a high-end database server, and by high-end I mean using dual-core x64 bit chips, I'd go with AMD. Now you're free to disagree, but I think you guys are relying on old data. Based on the new stuff out there and everything I've been reading (AND THEY'RE ALL SAYING THE SAME THING AT TOMS HARDWARE, ANANDTECH, EXTREMEPC, ETC.), THERE IS NO INTEL ADVANTAGE ANYMORE. NONE. But if you want more data before jumping on the AMD bandwagon, suit yourself.

Patch, apologies, no insult was intended towards you and all the great work that's been done by you and others to improve Win98SE. Of the Win9x versions, its' the OS I like the best. I always had crash problems with it, however, and when I switched to Win2k, the stability was so much better that I converted. I've taken the time to read the Win98 forums and I'm amazed at the work you guys have done on this OS. Although I'm a big Win2k fan, I have 2 really old laptops (128MB RAM, 450 and 500Mhz PIII) with relatively small hard disk drives. After reading through the great work you guys have done, I'm tempted to install Win98 on 'em again, install the service pack you guys have put together (2.02 I believe), run 98lite, and then install the WinME files. My only thought at looking at all this is, wow, the steps involved to do this require multiple installs. You guys should check out HFSLIP (click logo at bottom) and see if you can do something similar for this.

Rogue fair enough. Speed ain't the only factor for a high-end database server, although it's up there. With Intel being so far off the benchmarks now, maybe Dell and HP will focus on making quality AMD based database servers.

Rogue, what part of the posted article don't you understand? Intel processors aren't as good. If you want a high-end database server based on the x86 chipset, and you go with Intel, how is that high-end? 2nd rate processors in your server = NOT high end server.

I hate XP.

You can use whatever you want for low-end (I actually prefer PIII for non-gaming rigs because, it's fast enough and these chips are cool and, therefore, more reliable systems). BUT if you want the best, Intel chips are not the way to go. If you disagree, read this: http://www.theregister.com/2005/10/29/intel_xeon_2009/ Anybody considering building a new gaming rig or high-end database server processing tons of transactions would be well advised to go with AMD since it looks like Intel isn't even going to be able to begin to compete for a long, long time.

xpert as long as you can boot and run your programs, I wouldn't worry about the error messages. remember, FDV's fileset removes certain files. The error messages are just saying, yeah those files are missing all right.

Maxabozo: You're an American living in Germany laughing at scared Canadians in Kuwait destroying AMD based machines while figting in Iraq. You've just spewed more BS on this thread than a herd of cows could produce in a month eating nothing but ex-lax. Dude, AMD ownz Intel right now. Intel is scrapping their technology to go back to the drawing board so they can start to compete. P4 chips do less while producing more power. With respect to x64 and dual core, it's not even a contest. If you really are a soldier in Iraq, I don't expect to see you back on these boards . . . you know what Darwin said, survival of the fittest, dumbest die.

Asked before http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=57991 No one really knows but the guess is Win2k3. P.S. The thread say Win3k, I presume you mean Win2k3

@TommyP, could you post your nLite LastSession.ini. Love to see it. @Kalo, if using FDV fileset and nLite, DO NOT REMOVE WITH NLITE anything that FDV already removed. There's a good chance it'll screw things up. Also, the trick is to set up your HFSLIP folders right. Then all you really have to do is dump FDV's fileset into the FDVFILES folder and run HFSLIP. Read FDV's website carefully and do each step in the order that he has it out there. Once your files set up right, it's easy to keep 'em updated. Hotfixes get put into the HF folder, download latest HFSLIP and FDVfileset, put them where they belong and off you go!

I tried XP, went back to Win2k which is IMO, the best OS M$ ever made. I KNOW Win2k is faster. I've done extensive testing on all my machines. WinXP is only faster in limited circumstances when you have over 512MB RAM and an Intel 4 chip over about 1.5 GHz AND are running multiple CPU intensive processes. Then XP's support of hyperthreading can come into play, whereas Win2k does not support hyperthreading. However, if you have a dual CPU machine, the benefits of hyperthreading are pretty much wiped out by the processors having to do an after you Claude dance as they decide to prioritize tasks. Under those circumstances, Win2k is faster as it's not burdened by unncessary hyperthreading. XP SP2 install: approximately 3.5 GB Win2k SP4 intall: approkimately 480MB There's about 3 GB of mainly useless crap in XP. You need to do a huge amount of nLiting to get that crap out. Where do I begin? 1. Goofy cartoonlike interface? 2. Crappy built in firewall, virus monitor and other useless features in SP2. Can't even remove them except through nLite if you want to put in a real firewall. 3. Crappy CD Burner taking up space. 4. Countless unnecessary services running in background eating up memory and processor time. I don't have objection to M$ loading their crappy utilities in the OS as long as M$ GAVE YOU THE OPTION OF TAKING THEM OUT IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEM. I use FDV's fileset and nLite to reduce my Win2k install to 225 MB including Sun Java and lots of other utilities. Installs in 15 minutes. Only real advantage of XP is faster boot up time. But I replaced Win2k's NTDETECT.COM and ntldr with Win2kServer's versions and get boot times that are just as fast. They're both pretty stable, but WinXP seems to hang more IMO.

OK thanks. Got it now.

@Oleg, now I'm just confused Oh well, I'll leave them in, won't hurt.

@Oleg: yeah the Nero ASPI layer is newer and about 4 times bigger. 160KB vs 44KB. I think Adaptec ASPI is sufficient but I'll "burn" an extra 120KB for just in case.

http://www.cdr-zone.com/software/aspi_laye...aspi_layer.html Link to the Nero ASPI layer that Oleg is talking about. @Oleg, so you think the Nero ASIP layer is better, or at least supports more hardware, than the Adaptec ASPI? What's your take on the relative merits of the two?

dirtwarrior If you're going to nLite, you have to watch your dependencies. Like you, I've tried to remove stuff with nLite after FDV fileset, but I was real careful what I removed. If you nLite things that FDV fileset already removed, you've got a great chance of BSODing, as I learned through trial and error. I'd just use nLite to remove languages and drivers mainly. Also, in case you didn't know, you can go into the SOURCESS folder and remove manually a lot of the extra languages (except Western Europe) and also remove the WIN9XUPG, WIN9XMIG, WINNTUPG and COMPDATA folders without having to use nLite. You have to be careful what you remove too. For example, I use nLite remove all scanner/printer drivers because you can always download the driver off the internet, and I include copies of all my scanner/printer drivers in the source CD. But I don't remove monitors because a lot of monitors use the built-in Windows drivers, and I want to be able to use my FDV/nLited CD on any computer, not just my own. Or if I have to take my computer somewhere else (like say to a repair shop) and they use a monitor that requires Windows drivers, they won't even be able to boot up because the monitor drivers are missing. If you hit the nLite forums, there are tons of threads on apps that won't install or work right because too much or the wrong stuff was removed. That's the beauty and danger on nLite. If you know what the programs you use require, and you know what to safely remove, you can have a perfectly tailored OS. But if you don't know, you'll get BSOD'd or programs won't work. I also think nLite is geared towards Windows XP, which has about 2 GB of useless crap that absolutely MUST be removed to make it workable. Consequently nLite has removal options for WinXP that don't make sense for Win2k. It's pretty confuzzling to use nLite without a lot of trial and error. Win2k is a much cleaner OS, and FDV's fileset take out just about everything Anyway, keep up the experiments and let us know what you're removing and which programs are working or not. The information is extremely helpful in letting us and particularly FDV make judgment calls as to which services can be safely removed.