Windows98SE and Hibernate

[no1none]

I have a GQ 3151 box I got at Frys last fall... It has a partial moon-shaped button on the keyboard that I hit by accident once. The machine flipped off, and the led on the monitor went blinking as in power-save mode. I figured I had broken something. Not. Pushed the power button and it came back to life immediately w/o all the foofaraw that normally occurs on boot.

It was either suspended or hibernating... disk drive off. Mobo off. Caps-lock led on keyboard lit.

I am not going to differentiate between hibernate and suspend, but this was surely a convenient way to get the machine shut down in a hurry, and powered up equally as quickly.

tom

The "moon" button is either suspend (if motherboard is ACpI) or stand-by mode (if older, i.e. just plain-old APM 1.2). Your machine is still powered-on and it is still somewhat running, however - depending on features of the motherboard - the CPU, fans, videocard etc etc should be off. But if you were to pull the power plug or lost power suddenly, it will be same as youve crashed windows (or used reset button). Thats exactly the main difference between hibernate and any other modes: when machine is hibernated it is completely powered off, meaning you can pull the power plug, take it anywhere you want to, plug it in there and start up from exactly same moment you've hibernated it at.

[erpdude8]

i'm usin a desktop and win98se doesn't have a hibernate feature it mite be some 3rd party software providing it for laptops

It doesn't have to be a laptop;

in short - hibernation is a process of dumping current content of volatile memory (RAM) to harddisk (edit: or any other means of data storage without power) before shutting down computer, and restoring this content to RAM upon reboot. Any computer can do that, but the problem is with OS - it must be pointed to the harddisk-stored RAM content at startup, and thats where 3rd-party software comes handy for deficiencies of old Windows OSes.

There was no hibernation support for desktop machines until Windows 2000, ME, XP & Vista came along.

Read this thread. I've discussed about hibernation and win98se here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/Hibernate_Option_98se_t40877.html

Hibernation in Win98fe/se is only possible on laptop computers. dont bother making Win98fe/se to use hibernation under desktop PCs. the standby option is the best power management option for desktop PCs using Win98

Edited May 18, 2007 by erpdude8

[erpdude8]

no1none: Thanks for the suggestions but i guess my computer does not support Hibernate under Windows98SE. Its an old Dell, it does not even show the Bios settings properly.

I had this problem with my aunt's Dell Optiplex GX100 desktop computer that has an ACPI mobo and BIOS. I put Win98 SE on there and no hibernate option was available. However, after I upgraded the OS to WinME, the Dell computer can now use hibernate. It's a Win98 OS limitation

myelin, if you really want to take advantage of the hibernation feature on your desktop computer, upgrade to win2000, winme, xp or vista. Also, your Dell computer MUST have ACPI power management support (look for Advanced Configuration and Power Interface BIOS and ACPI related stuff in Device Manager; if ACPI is not listed in Device Manager, you won't get the hibernation option). go to BIOS setup and check to see if ACPI is turned on and then install either of the Windows OS I mentioned.

Edited May 18, 2007 by erpdude8

[no1none]

i'm usin a desktop and win98se doesn't have a hibernate feature it mite be some 3rd party software providing it for laptops

It doesn't have to be a laptop;

in short - hibernation is a process of dumping current content of volatile memory (RAM) to harddisk (edit: or any other means of data storage without power) before shutting down computer, and restoring this content to RAM upon reboot. Any computer can do that, but the problem is with OS - it must be pointed to the harddisk-stored RAM content at startup, and thats where 3rd-party software comes handy for deficiencies of old Windows OSes.

There was no hibernation support for desktop machines until Windows 2000, ME, XP & Vista came along.

Read this thread. I've discussed about hibernation and win98se here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/Hibernate_Option_98se_t40877.html

Hibernation in Win98fe/se is only possible on laptop computers. dont bother making Win98fe/se to use hibernation under desktop PCs. the standby option is the best power management option for desktop PCs using Win98

I *have* Windows 95 laptop with built-in hibernation feature (3rd party); I have Desktop PC pre-dating Windows 95 probably by a year with built-in into its BIOS hibernating feature (IBM Aptiva series). I don't need to read some thread to know what I *have* right beside me LOL

[Ponch]

I *have* Windows 95 laptop with built-in hibernation feature (3rd party); I have Desktop PC pre-dating Windows 95 probably by a year with built-in into its BIOS hibernating feature (IBM Aptiva series). I don't need to read some thread to know what I *have* right beside me LOL

Erpdude8 is talking OS option,

you are talking "Win95 built in 3rd party" (??) or Bios feature. You can LOL if you want .

[no1none]

I *have* Windows 95 laptop with built-in hibernation feature (3rd party); I have Desktop PC pre-dating Windows 95 probably by a year with built-in into its BIOS hibernating feature (IBM Aptiva series). I don't need to read some thread to know what I *have* right beside me LOL

Erpdude8 is talking OS option,

you are talking "Win95 built in 3rd party" (??) or Bios feature. You can LOL if you want .

You do install other software beside the OS on every computer you use, don't you?

So what difference does it make if youre installing (i.e.) cd burning soft or a hibernation soft on computer which OS didn't come with either one?

It doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, Win95 didn't come with "built-in" hibernation software itself. But it DOES work with 3rd party software, thus it does support hibernation (unlike i.e. NT3 which does NOT support it at all, and there are no hibernating software even from 3rd party).

Hence: LOL again

Edited May 22, 2007 by no1none

[erpdude8]

You do install other software beside the OS on every computer you use, don't you?

So what difference does it make if youre installing (i.e.) cd burning soft or a hibernation soft on computer which OS didn't come with either one?

It doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, Win95 didn't come with "built-in" hibernation software itself. But it DOES work with 3rd party software, thus it does support hibernation (unlike i.e. NT3 which does NOT support it at all, and there are no hibernating software even from 3rd party).

Hence: LOL again

we're drifting a little off topic but can you see the hibernate feature in your Win95 machine in the Power Management control panel applet?

AND what kinds of third party software are you refering to, no1none (name them here as proof you know what you are talking about). not everyone owns an IBM Aptiva or IBM Thinkpad computer.

I prefer the OS hibernation feature included in Win2k/ME/XP so that I dont rely on 3rd party soft to use hibernation AND the hibernate option is easily accessible from the Windows Shut Down menu or from the Power Management control panel box. Many modern PCs both desktop and laptop can use hibernation via a OS

I *have* Windows 95 laptop with built-in hibernation feature (3rd party); I have Desktop PC pre-dating Windows 95 probably by a year with built-in into its BIOS hibernating feature (IBM Aptiva series).

only in IBM Aptiva & IBM laptop BIOSes. Back then, NEC, HP, Compaq or other brand name desktop computers did NOT have the hibernation option in their BIOSes (laptop PCs from NEC, HP, Toshiba, Compaq, etc. may have either hibernate in laptop BIOS or bundled hibernate utility). only BIOS option was Sleep/Suspend in those desktop machines which was not as powerful as hibernate

after Win2000, ME, XP and Vista were released, the hibernate option became widely available to newly manufactured ACPI-based desktop and laptop computers and no longer required special hibernate utilities because hibernate was built-in these Windows OSes

Look at the definition of Hibernate (OS Feature) at the Wikipedia site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernate_%28OS_feature%29

Also read about the hibernate power management feature at the EnergyStar site:

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=power_mgt.pr_pm_faq

"Hibernate" from ComputerHope:

http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/h/hibernat.htm

and check out this thread here:

http://www.resellerratings.com/forum/showt...3618&page=2

Edited May 23, 2007 by erpdude8

[no1none]

You do install other software beside the OS on every computer you use, don't you?

So what difference does it make if youre installing (i.e.) cd burning soft or a hibernation soft on computer which OS didn't come with either one?

It doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, Win95 didn't come with "built-in" hibernation software itself. But it DOES work with 3rd party software, thus it does support hibernation (unlike i.e. NT3 which does NOT support it at all, and there are no hibernating software even from 3rd party).

Hence: LOL again

we're drifting a little off topic but can you see the hibernate feature in your Win95 machine in the Power Management control panel applet?

AND what kinds of third party software are you refering to, no1none (name them here as proof you know what you are talking about). not everyone owns an IBM Aptiva or IBM Thinkpad computer.

I prefer the OS hibernation feature included in Win2k/ME/XP so that I dont rely on 3rd party soft to use hibernation AND the hibernate option is easily accessible from the Windows Shut Down menu or from the Power Management control panel box. Many modern PCs both desktop and laptop can use hibernation via a OS

I *have* Windows 95 laptop with built-in hibernation feature (3rd party); I have Desktop PC pre-dating Windows 95 probably by a year with built-in into its BIOS hibernating feature (IBM Aptiva series).

only in IBM Aptiva & IBM laptop BIOSes. Back then, NEC, HP, Compaq or other brand name desktop computers did NOT have the hibernation option in their BIOSes (laptop PCs from NEC, HP, Toshiba, Compaq, etc. may have either hibernate in laptop BIOS or bundled hibernate utility). only BIOS option was Sleep/Suspend in those desktop machines which was not as powerful as hibernate

after Win2000, ME, XP and Vista were released, the hibernate option became widely available to newly manufactured ACPI-based desktop and laptop computers and no longer required special hibernate utilities because hibernate was built-in these Windows OSes

Look at the definition of Hibernate (OS Feature) at the Wikipedia site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernate_%28OS_feature%29

Also read about the hibernate power management feature at the EnergyStar site:

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=power_mgt.pr_pm_faq

"Hibernate" from ComputerHope:

http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/h/hibernat.htm

and check out this thread here:

http://www.resellerratings.com/forum/showt...3618&page=2

sometimes you are really so annoying in your stubbornes, erpDUDE

There is no i.e. cd-burning applet built-in to Win95 OS like it is in WinXP, yet you don't say "Win95 does NOT support cd burning", right?

It doesn't have to be built-in OS feature to be supported obviously!

Phoenix BIOS supported what we call now 'hibernation' as long ago as of 1994.

Yes, manufacturers like Packard Bell, Compaq and such el-cheapos never include such option in their custom-'castrated' BIOSes, but nevertheless it was possible, and *sometimes* used, on a handful of machines from Toshiba, NEC and Acer.

Japanese NEC and all Taiwanese Acer machines came with "PHDISK" utility (which to my understanding work even on Win3.1 and AFAIR ran of off separate partition it carved out for itself upon installation and added to boot). This utility didn't require any special motherboard modification, it started on boot much like "Windows hibernation" does now. All it needed was BIOS with APM.

You can still find PHDISK on Acer's support sites.

Toshiba used "0VS" (0-Volt Suspend, "0" as in zero) which IIRC was their own version of PHDISK for their specific laptop mobos (I may be wrong on that one since personally I never had 0VS installed on anything).

Lastly IBM, which actually came up first with idea of dumping video and system RAM content to a file and allowing to reload it upon reboot in its much sophisticated Rapid Resume (I dont know when exactly they made it available at first, but since IBM Aptiva series PCs were introduced in the end of 1993 I would assume thats when it started).

I agree that build-in to OS hibernation is much better option since it eliminates user reliance on machine manufacturer's mercy, but then I wasn't discussing such obvious fact, only pointed out that hibernation existed long before Msoft finally got interested in it, and since "third party" hibernation worked on Win95 there is no reason why it shouldnt work on Win98, thats all.

As for the links:

EOT to me /lets discuss something more interesting )

Oh, I forgot:

I think I have the answer why most of companies dropped these "third party" hibernation utilities once they start selling Win98 machines: it is because of introduction of FAT32 with Win98.

Phdisk and RapidResume does NOT work on FAT32 partitions (I tried them), so does probably 0VS.

But if someone used FAT16 for his C:\ I see no reason why they shouldn't work on Win98.

Perhaps someone will try it and let us know?

BTW: Rapid Resume was so fantastic, I can't believe it didn't spread to other companies.

Computer comes back from "deep suspend" (everything off, only RAM is still powered up) in less than a second!

Resuming from 'hibernation' takes obviously longer, but still it is faster than resuming hibernated Windows 2000 on newer machines.

Edited July 10, 2007 by no1none

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

Since WinME have hibernate and Win98SE don't is it possible to get it thru 98SE2ME?

[no1none]

Since WinME have hibernate and Win98SE don't is it possible to get it thru 98SE2ME?

Good question.

Perhaps one of our "9x" gurus can answer that, or someone who have tried it

IMHO hibernation in WinME is relying on ACPI feature of BIOS, so the BIOS itself is the main factor here.

I tried once WinME on an old laptop without ACPI but with APM1.2, and hibernation was not available there and impossible to force it on.

Yet the same laptop originally had Win95 and perfectly hibernated with "third party" hibernation (phdisk IIRC), LOL.

Also when I upgraded RAM to the maximum and was able to load Win2000 on the same laptop - I got hibernation already by default just with W2K installation, no sweat.

Thats why I think WinME's hibernation is not the same as the hibernation on 2000/XP, but probably some kind of 'hybrid' ACPI-dependant (unlike the W2K that is able to hibernate without ACPI). Maybe WinME's hib. is even one of the old "third party hibernation utilities" just rebranded to Msoft and tweaked to work on FAT32? After all, basically *ALL* of Msoft "new stuff" added to every new Windows are basically "third party" apps they simply bought or acquired one way or another...

[marxo]

Axiom: ACPI is a very fu***d up s**t.

Why? Because a lot of legacy computers don't support it.

Hibernation? Huh.. Don't know the solution to making it work 98SE but surrely 2K/XPs and MEs are not the same. Because AFAIK 2K/XPs is not based on ACPI.

[erpdude8]

Axiom: ACPI is a very fu***d up s**t.

Why? Because a lot of legacy computers don't support it.

I find that hard to believe and I find these comments to be DOWNRIGHT CYNICAL of you, marxo! Don't you even use an ACPI based machine, huh!! :realmad:

I can tell from REAL experience that these ACPI based computers that I use are quite reliable and can handle both Standby and Hibernate power management features very well.

Hibernation? Huh.. Don't know the solution to making it work 98SE but surrely 2K/XPs and MEs are not the same. Because AFAIK 2K/XPs is not based on ACPI.

That's NOT the point, man! Win2k/XP provides support for ACPI power management, they don't necessarily have to be only ACPI-based. There really is NO need to enable hibernate on existing 98se machines regardless of the PC uses the older APM standard or the updated ACPI standard. most 98se users do not really need the hibernate option.

Win98 SE simply has limited power management options compared to the options found in Win2000, ME, XP, 2003 and Vista.

[marxo]

Don't you even use an ACPI based machine, huh!!

You can as much as you like but that is a **** axiom. My 1st PC is ACPI-based (so Yes I use it) but read the quote - says - legacy. Well I have a legacy PC that can run Vista RTM (slow but it can run) but I can't install it because someone has made it a MUST for Vista Installation. So If that is not monopoly and trying to get us to throw our old PCs and buy new (in order to run "new" software) i don't know what is.

[bizzybody]

I have a Toshiba Tecra 8000 with 98SE2ME. The Toshiba hibernate utility works perfectly with it. It's a two part thing, after installing the utility you boot to a safe mode command prompt and CD\halloc.tos then run halloc /c to create the toshiber.dat file in c:\ (If the RAM size is changed, the halloc.exe program must be run again to recreate toshiber.dat.)

Reboot into Windows then click Hibernate on the Start Menu. The screen goes black then there's an animation of a laptop with the screen wiping over to a disk. Power is totally off and the laptop can be left that way indefinately.

Poke the power button and the animation comes up- in reverse, in a few seconds you're right back where you were before. Hard drive speed is very important to how fast it hibernates and comes back. Mine took a long time with the original 4,200 RPM 6.4gig, but now with the 5,400 RPM 40gig drive it's really fast. The whole laptop is faster. It used to take over five minutes to boot, now this 300Mhz PII is ready to go in 1.75 minutes.

[888]

Hibernation is great. I cant live without it.

I enable hibernation on every box, and most of people like it too once I explain it to them.

How can you not like being able to stop everything, shut it down, and return to exactly same moment few hours or days later? perhaps in a different location too if its a laptop

Specially with slow booting OSes like XP - why wait 2 minutes (on older machine) until everything loads and starts, if you can have it back and running exactly where you left off in about 20sec? I really dont see your point marxo, and I have been setting up quite few legacy crapsters too. Actually I just wish it would be possible to 'transplant' hibernation to NT4 since W2K's hibernation (and XP's) is completely independent from ACPI.