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Why continue to use Windows 9x?


DukeBlazingstix
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Then ScanDisk runs and fixes whatever is broken, which is hardly ever significant stuff.

So you really think that scandisk can fix more errors on a fat32 than chkdsk can on a NTFS? Then it would mean that you assume that a journaled filesystem is pointless. Which is not.

Then it's a bad driver. Duh.

What if the problem... is the OS?

http://www.microsoft.com/Windows98/downloa...017/Default.asp

Oh please. I'll lose just that one date. What a disaster... Again, ScanDisk does the job.

No you won't lose just that one date: if you turn off an HD while it's writing usually the HD heads will mess up some of the data after the location where they were writing (because there's still power in them and because the platters are still rotating). If it wasn't for crashes or hardware that messes up when not powered off correctly then journaled filesystems wouldn't exist.

By reverse-engineering, which on something as important as the file system, is not perfect. The actual inner workings aren't known, and things could break before you know it.

Oh well i've been using pqmagic plenty of times since the first versions with NTFS support and never got a problem. If linux now has a full read/write driver it means that ntfs has been reverse-engineered more than enough.

Yet I haven't had any problems in 8 years that ScanDisk couldn't fix.

Yet I fixed plenty of PCs with corrupted windows 9x with windows directories completely disappeared due to corruption. Most of the times I fixed windows 2000/XP PCs instead there were problems with corrupted files but I hardly saw the same level of corruption I have seen on some FAT partitions.

Not in a thread that asks for the PROs, because CONs are off-topic.

When some of those PROs are inexact or myths I don't see why I shouldn't answer to clarify things.

Irrelevant. That doesn't disprove that games belong on consoles.

Oh yes? What console does Hellgate: London runs on? Where did the games of the year 2006 (Oblivion) and 2005 (half life 2) came out?

Gaming hasn't never belonged only to consoles. Consoles are mostly cheap alternatives but you won't never have the power and the flexibility of the games on the PC (and by the way pc games are even cheaper).

You're bypassing what the actual comparison is about, which is OS performance, not driver performance. So the drivers have to be the same. Don't claim that XP is more performant when you're talking about your shiny drivers.

So what about the winstone benchmarks being much better on XP because of prefetch?

Should all give up XP because it scores 34/4188 (1/123) less than 98 on the SiSoft sandra CPU benchmark on a more than 2 years old benchmarks page?

Who cares if P4s hyperthreading is not supported, who cares if cores in dual cores CPU remains unused, who cares if most of the producers now release only slow legacy drivers for win98...

Software should come with good settings. I shouldn't have to turn off all the bloat, it should come without it! Defaults are important! Bad excuse.

Since most of those services are needed for advanced features (network shares etc) I don't see why they should be turned off by the default. It's up to the user to disable the services he doesn't need.

There are no 'hidden' Win9x processes. They are all needed. Only 7 on my system at the moment that are not applications.

All needed?

What about TAPISRV.exe? Do I need it when connecting to the internet using a lan connection?

What about WMIEXE.exe? Do I really need it?

Do i need spool32 if I don't have a printer?

What about PSTORES.exe?

What about MTASKS.exe?

Edited by Francesco
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Again, why bother with that when you can just ghost a hard drive that already has all the drivers?

Because I can install windows from the same cd on completely different PCs and all would have the latest up-to-date drivers. And sometimes the results are even better then installing all the drivers by hand (because the driverpacks include drivers that probably the end user wouldn't even know they are updatable).

Hah! If only it was that easy...

That easy? Have you read the tutorial? http://www.collewijn.info/xpe/main.php It doesn't seem all this hard to me however there are plenty of pre-made XPEs cd on the web.

Yes and no. For one, it doesn't prevent you from using badly-coded applications.

But it prevents badly-coded applications from harming the OS. And like you may know almost all applications have bugs.

All this nonsense is really a laugh. Thousands of people migrating to XP, noticing that M$ removed all of DOS, and then people make all sorts of utilities to get it all back.

MS didn't remove DOS., MS removed from the NT the ability of applications to access directly to hardware like they could on DOS to increase stability. This is why most games don't work, especially those that want to monopolize the CPU by using protected mode (because as you may remember protected mode was introduced in 386s and DOS, for compatibility with older CPUs, wasn't supporting that mode).

If any application could directly access memory, CPU and all devices then an OS wouldn't ever be really reliable.

Edited by Francesco
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Since most of those services are needed for advanced features (network shares etc) I don't see why they should be turned off by the default. It's up to the user to disable the services he doesn't need.
how many people do you know that use remote registryt?

the average user doesnt know about services.

Oh well i've been using pqmagic plenty of times since the first versions with NTFS support and never got a problem. If linux now has a full read/write driver it means that ntfs has been reverse-engineered more than enough.

linux ntfs isnt perfect though, it's still buggy

What about TAPISRV.exe? Do I need it when connecting to the internet using a lan connection?

What about WMIEXE.exe usually invoked by SYSTRAY.EXE? Do I really need it?

Do i need spool32 if I don't have a printer?

What about PSTORES.exe?

What about MTASKS.exe?

than dont use systray or use rplite7

spool32 only starts if you try to print something

whats tapisrv i dont use it

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Since most of those services are needed for advanced features (network shares etc) I don't see why they should be turned off by the default. It's up to the user to disable the services he doesn't need.
how many people do you know that use remote registryt?

the average user doesnt know about services.

I didn't say that services are configured perfectly they're configured to offer all the features enabled out-of-the-box. However they're surely easier to disable than a hunt-for-the-hidden-process on win98.

Oh well i've been using pqmagic plenty of times since the first versions with NTFS support and never got a problem. If linux now has a full read/write driver it means that ntfs has been reverse-engineered more than enough.

linux ntfs isnt perfect though, it's still buggy

No it's pretty stable now. http://www.linux-ntfs.org/ you can find the driver with full read/write support here.

What about TAPISRV.exe? Do I need it when connecting to the internet using a lan connection?

What about WMIEXE.exe usually invoked by SYSTRAY.EXE? Do I really need it?

Do i need spool32 if I don't have a printer?

What about PSTORES.exe?

What about MTASKS.exe?

than dont use systray or use rplite7

spool32 only starts if you try to print something

whats tapisrv i dont use it

Spool32 is always active even when you're not printing. Tapisrv is used for dial-up connections (so if you connect through the LAN you don't need it at all).

I didn't say that they're useless I just said that they aren't as much needed as one may think.

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spool32 isnt always active i can delete without windows complaining and it isnt displayed in process viewer app 4

but tapisrv isnt running

what does pstores do

It's strange spool32 is supposed to be always active for printing support. Same for TAPIsrv but maybe you disabled it somehow. On cleans 98SE install usually tapisvr is always running. PSTORES.exe is used mostly by IE to store passwords etc (I don't remember other applications using it).

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Windows millennium's good components can mostly be placed in windows98se therefore

increasing windows 98se's performance.

In actual fact, I now know windows xpsp2 has components that can be put in too.

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List of processes on Windows 98 SE - Typical install including Microsoft TCP/IP networking:

PID	   PRIO	THR  NAME
ff0ff299 high 13 4 c:\windows\system\kernel32.dll
ffff8621 norm 8 1 c:\windows\system\msgsrv32.exe
ffffb1b1 norm 8 1 c:\windows\system\mprexe.exe
ffffab79 norm 8 1 c:\windows\system\mmtask.tsk
fffe0285 norm 8 2 c:\windows\system\mstask.exe
fffe2c99 real 24 3 c:\windows\system\ddhelp.exe
fffe3709 norm 8 2 c:\windows\system\spool32.exe
fffe4a11 norm 8 5 c:\windows\explorer.exe
fffd54f5 norm 8 1 c:\windows\taskmon.exe
fffd152d norm 8 1 c:\windows\system\systray.exe

Windows XP default install:

PID	   PRIO	THR  NAME
4 norm 8 53 system
138 norm 11 3 smss.exe
17c norm 13 10 csrss.exe
194 high 13 26 winlogon.exe
1c0 norm 9 15 services.exe
1cc norm 9 24 lsass.exe
264 norm 8 20 svchost.exe
2e8 norm 8 9 svchost.exe
328 norm 8 67 svchost.exe
358 norm 8 6 svchost.exe
3ac norm 8 18 svchost.exe
4e8 norm 8 15 explorer.exe
504 norm 8 14 spoolsv.exe
5d8 norm 8 1 rundll32.exe
160 norm 8 7 alg.exe
164 norm 8 1 wscntfy.exe
3c4 norm 8 10 wuauclt.exe
4c4 norm 8 5 wuauclt.exe

Plus there are 32 services started.

Petr

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What about MTASKS.exe?
Needed for multimedia support.
Because I can install windows from the same cd on completely different PCs and all would have the latest up-to-date drivers.

I'll grant you that. However, what you mentioned is a third-party tool, and it would be possible on Win9x too.

That easy? Have you read the tutorial?
Of course I did. Though maybe XPE didn't exist at that time...
But it prevents badly-coded applications from harming the OS. And like you may know almost all applications have bugs.

Only truly badly-coded applications harm the OS. Yes, all applications have bugs, but most don't harm the OS.

MS didn't remove DOS., MS removed from the NT the ability of applications to access directly to hardware like they could on DOS to increase stability.
And decrease performance...
If any application could directly access memory, CPU and all devices then an OS wouldn't ever be really reliable.

Another myth...

Tapisrv is used for dial-up connections (so if you connect through the LAN you don't need it at all).

I was under the impression that it's also needed for network shares.

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Francesco. This is like your 20th post in only a few days. Now you even post several times in a row. You have to stop that.

Again, the question was to understand why we stay with Win98 and you're not helping.

Win98 is our chosen OS. We've explained why. You don't agree? Fine. But you've posted your opinion now so stop floading our forum !!! :angry:

NTFS better than FAT? Nope.

Power down with you FAT32 drive writing? Just run scandisk and you're done. NTFS crash? chkdisk is no way as powerfull and it needs to restart your computer. And when it really crashes, there's no way to recover (even Partition Magic can't even do anything about it). And as BenoitRen mentionned, it's a closed proprietary format even if unofficial programs exist to read it under DOS or Linux.

DOS: "MS didn't remove DOS. MS removed from the NT the ability of applications to access directly to hardware like they could on DOS to increase stability."

So you're ok with this M$ babysitting? Fine. Good for you. Obviously we're not. This was just the first step to Vista where you can't access anything without DRM checks.

And the alledged stability increase?

XP more stable? lol

You're comparing it to the original 98FE without any update? Updated, I've never seen a BSOD on 98SE. But I've seen quite a few on XP. And then, you're good to reinstall.

And personnaly, every program that made my win98 crash made XP crash the same way (bad programs are just bad programs).

All the bloat that comes with XP is not good for stability anyway (Only a few features are usefull on GBs of install)

XP safer?

Install Win98 with just the internet and get online: no open ports -> No risks. Install Firefox and get a firewall and you're safe.

Now install XP: millions of services and open ports begging for an attack. In less that 30 seconds you'll be infected.

Sure, you can disable useless services, get a powerfull AV, use nlite to get rid of all the bloat that comes with XP, use BartPE instead of DOS... but if you have to do all that to make XP usable, what's the point? Unless you're forced to have XP (like I am for latest games), don't use it.

This thread is getting really anoying. So we had a 2k fan, a linux defensor, now a XP lover? What next? an OSX friend?...

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Now you even post several times in a row.

He's not our friend, but fair is fair. He explained why he posted several times in a row (I had to do it too since yesterday). There's a quote maximum on each post, which I've counted to be 10. If you want more quotes, you have to make a new post.

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Now you even post several times in a row.

He's not our friend, but fair is fair. He explained why he posted several times in a row (I had to do it too since yesterday). There's a quote maximum on each post, which I've counted to be 10. If you want more quotes, you have to make a new post.

The problem being is that no matter how you try to explain your point of view and show evidence to the facts, it gets very frustrating and repetitive whilst the person refuses to listen, or they have their mind set and continue to infinitum.

Far better if they actually try the os and the work that has been carried out to improve it since 1998 whilst offering constructive critism.

Once they depart from the subject and start involving other os`s like linux as part of the argument, it makes me wonder over their intentions. Linux to me is something to be admired in the same respect as the hard work of the people in this forum and neither have anything fundamentally in common with xp

Edited by oscardog
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The same points and counter-points are starting to repeat in this thread.

In fact, it's turning into a "I'M BETTER THAN YOU" thread, and rather shameful of the 9x community, since we don't see any "Why continue to use Windows XP" threads in the XP forum even though there's Vista out there.

9x has its place, and we don't need to endlessly discuss it.

Let's close this useless thread. :realmad:

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