Windows 98 and the browser for 2024

[Radovan]

Dear, is there still a browser for windows 98 in 2024? I know it's probably stupid, but if windows update works via windowsupdaterestored, why doesn't a browser for windows 98 work, it needs some certificates, is there a way around it? I have internet explorer 6, Mozila firefox and K Meleon and it doesn't work the same - see picture. Thank you Radovan

[roytam1]

you may need to update your K-Meleon: http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/read.php?22,151512,158054#msg-158054

[Radovan]

Děkuji Vám, stáhnul jsem si ten K meleon a stejně se ty webové stránky špatně zobrazují, ani se nedá přihlásit na mail

dá se to nějak opravit, aby to zobrazovalo ten prohlížeč ve Windows 98 ty stránky?

Já vím, že chci hodně

A existuje nějaký antivirus pro windows 98 kromě ClamWin?

 

[schwups]

K-Meleon 1.5.4 is from 2010. Javascript and css haven't been updated. So it isn't surprising that most pages are displayed very poorly. RoyTam1 has updated the nss (Network Security Services) files. With TLS 1.2/1.3 support the pages are accessible, but as I said they are poorly displayed. Otherwise the only options are a newer operating system or latest KernelEx (But it's still in development and test phase - not really ready for end users).

You will not be successful with an "e-mail login" in such old browser like KM 1.5.4.

eMail program: I can still use OutlookExpress6 with the help of WinSSL (TLS 1.2 support). This should also work with Thunderbird 2.0.0.24.

https://msfn.org/board/topic/174247-windows-9x-ssl-protocol-winsslwrap-117-rev-08/

 

Antivirus: Yes, ClamWin is probably the last one with the possibility to get latest definitions.

Spybot 1.6.2 (adware, Spyware, trojans) has still definitions updates, too.

Edited July 20, 2024 by schwups

[defuser]

Unfortunately, modern browsers running on Windows 98 don't work without KernelEx. As for KernelEx, schwups has already described everything quite correctly (see above). I have one of the assemblies working like this (According to the instructions from this topic):

At least it allows you to open this forum, expanded assets on GitHub, and generally display most sites fairly correctly. But when you try to download something from Mega.nz it crashes at the very last moment (At least on my 98FE right now). Maybe on ME everything is different, I haven't checked it yet, because I haven't had time yet).

For these or other reasons, or if you simply do not want to use KernelEx, there is another alternative option that does not require the presence of KernlEx - this is using Virtual PC 5.1-5.2 (Patched 5.2 is faster than anyone else, supports up to 2GB of RAM on guest VMs and is best suited for this application). The fact is that I have only one working PC used at one time and I use, among others, this option also under Windows 98, when you need a modern browser, and I don't want to reboot to another OS (XP+) (So as not to interrupt the current work in another OS):

There are no more problems here and everything works correctly. An important caveat is that the processor must support SSE3 (Unfortunately, modern browsers require it), as well as enough memory (So that at least 1GB can be allocated for the needs of the guest OS). During a working session, the VM can be paused or even saved state, so that if necessary, in a matter of seconds, you can restore the guest VM at any time, with browsers, sites in them, and other programs already open inside (I just set a low priority through Process Explorer and it sits in the background and does not interfere). For faster swapping and generally accessing the disk subsystem, you can also use RamDisk64 for the needs of the guest OS. Purely as an option.

[defuser]

Opera 9 also opens up something else, it is ideal for reading off-line MHT pages and archived old sites and simple forums (And it is also very convenient for downloading files, as it has a good download manager, much more convenient than in any modern Firefox or Chrome). Sometimes, in order to reach the site, you need to use an online proxy (This is due to the lack of TLS or switch to HTTP, if supported). Opera 9 does not require KernelEx.

[schwups]

22 hours ago, defuser said:

But when you try to download something from Mega.nz it crashes at the very last moment (At least on my 98FE right now).

Yes, here it hangs on folder details request. I did a few tests, without a result. The look of the download page has changed. It's a new problem on ME/98, because it worked until recently. Maybe it has something to do with API "RaiseException" somehow or indirectly. Anyway, I have no idea at the moment.

[defuser]

On 7/23/2024 at 11:23 PM, schwups said:

Yes, here it hangs on folder details request. I did a few tests, without a result. The look of the download page has changed. It's a new problem on ME/98, because it worked until recently. Maybe it has something to do with API "RaiseException" somehow or indirectly. Anyway, I have no idea at the moment.

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I also managed to find out that this patched version crashes when trying to download to Mega.nz not only under Windows 9x\Me, but also on pure Windows XP SP2. The drop occurs exactly in the same place.

However, there the problem is successfully solved by installing the update "kb959426" with the parameter "/b:SP2QFE", which actually updates only one file in the system - "KERNEL32.DLL" from version "5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm. 040803-2158)" (SP2, August 18, 2004), to version " 5.1.2600.3541 (xpsp_sp2_qfe. 090321-1324)" (SP2 QFE, dated March 21, 2009). After that, it downloads normally (I note that the "RaiseException" is also fixed here, since for the purity of the experiment, the same browser build is actually used as under Win98).

It turns out that there are some corrections in KERNEL32.DLL they potentially solve our problem as well. It is worth noting that some later programs were compiled by too new compilers and do not work at all without this fix. At the time of the release of this fix, Windows 98 was already removed from support (so it could not receive it in a timely manner).

 

So this issue is obviously a bit beyond the scope of 9x\Me.

 

 

[schwups]

The question arises whether it is theoretically possible to add (hardcode) such a security update into KernelEx.

[loblo]

You can use JDownloader2 for downloading files from Mega, it works very well.

[schwups]

Yes, I still have it, but I hardly use it. (Java 1.8.0.292 (Azul Zulu 8.54.0.21)) I just tried jdownloader-portable-17334 2024-05-24. I think it's still running fine. Good to know.

[jumper]

5 hours ago, schwups said:

The question arises whether it is theoretically possible to add (hardcode) such a security update into KernelEx.

Yes. What functions or resources were updated?

 

[Radovan]

So if I download and install this kernelex KernelEx 4.5.2016  the website display better?

[schwups]

KernelEx 4.5.2: It is suitable for end users. It allows to run Firefox 3.6.28 or 9.0.1. For issues and solutions see KernelEx Wiki on WaybackMachine. The nss updates by RoyTam are also required for these Firefox versions. Javascript is too old for modern websites. It's usually better to turn it off to ensure stability.

Little history: KernelEx 4.5.2016.16 was the first version with the possibility to start Firfox 24+ or a Firefox 24+ based browser (fork). Kex Update 18 brought improvements with regard to Firefox profile creation.

 

20 hours ago, Radovan said:

So if I download and install this kernelex KernelEx 4.5.2016  the website display better?

As defuser already said, Roytam's browsers, based on Palemoon 28 or Firefox 52, generally display most sites fairly correctly. You should install latest KernelEx, but it's still in development and test phase - not really ready for end users.

 

[defuser]

On 7/31/2024 at 5:13 AM, jumper said:

Yes. What functions or resources were updated?

 

Do you mind if I try to answer this question? I don't really understand it, but... Here are two versions Kernel32.DLL:

kernel32_BAD.dll (5.1.2600.2945 (xpsp. 060704-2357)) - the browser crashes with it (On Mega.nz).
kernel32_GOOD.dll (5.1.2600.3119 (xpsp_sp2_qfe. 070416-1259)) - it already works fine with it.

Comparing the two versions using CFF Explorer showed that in my opinion, there is only one significant difference between them.
Only one parameter was added to "Export Directory" :

00000171 00060F58 0170 00006704 GetLogicalProcessorInformation

In other places, nothing seems to have changed significantly.