Refreshing data on the disk

[jaclaz]

37 minutes ago, UCyborg said:

Even if you scan the entire file and get the offsets of those patterns in the image file, how do you know to which file they belong, if any, in case of NTFS file system?

I am not sure to understand the question, if it is "how do I find to which file these 5 sectors belong to?", in DMDE you can create the (NTFS) cluster map and check on it.

https://dmde.com/manual/clustermap.html

If you want to compare-compare the results (given you have enough disk space) you can mount the DMDE dd-like image (even IMDISK will do for this purpose) then Robocopy out of it and compare the two Robocopy outputs though the results will (should) be identical.

You can also try doing a (partial) image on reverse, it used to be a thing in the past, though I doubt it has any advantage on modern disks.

jaclaz

Edited May 2, 2023 by jaclaz

[UCyborg]

On 5/2/2023 at 1:42 PM, jaclaz said:

I am not sure to understand the question, if it is "how do I find to which file these 5 sectors belong to?", in DMDE you can create the (NTFS) cluster map and check on it.

https://dmde.com/manual/clustermap.html

Yes, that's what I meant, thanks for the hint. Having the program make the log while imagining was helpful, those sectors are logged there, but can also be extracted into a separate log file. When you're looking at the image you made, those sectors aren't offset by partition starting sector, so when you're looking at the log and want to navigate to particular sector, subtract the partition start sector from the logged bad sector to get to the same sector in the image as you would on partition on the disk.

I got everything sorted now. Some files were read successfully during Robocopy, others during imaging. 2 out of 9 files that were problematic to read at one point couldn't be read successfully in either attempt.

Now all that's left is to decide what to do with the disk.

Edited May 4, 2023 by UCyborg

[jaclaz]

Now that you have the data saved, you should run the manufacturer test (the "extended" one) and see what results you get.

jaclaz

[UCyborg]

Testing.

Nice times, eh?

[jaclaz]

33 minutes ago, UCyborg said:

Testing.

Nice times, eh?

The estimation seems like not particularly optimistic, but 77% of 500 GB in 40 minutes doesn't sound bad at all.

jaclaz

[UCyborg]

Oh, it just got confused because the clock went back by two hours in the middle of it, XP can't timekeep properly with RealTimeIsUniversal=1 setting. It got through in about 1,5h.

At the end, it said it found bad sectors that may be repairable and offered to repair them, then after clicking Repair, it said it repaired them, but S.M.A.R.T. doesn't show any improvement. I imagine running full erase from that program won't help either, but I can try. No spare sectors/damaged spare sectors?

Edit: Erasing disk also zeroed pending sector count, but didn't increase reallocated event count. Offline uncorrectable is at 25, some sources say this one never resets.

Edited May 5, 2023 by UCyborg

[jaclaz]

The idea is (should be) that through a "repair" or "wipe" or both, the defective sectors are added to the so-called "G-list" and are remapped onto spare sectors.

The 25 (is it in parameter 187 or 198?) should be the number of sectors in this G-list, it shouldn't ever reset, the G in G-list seemingly stays for "Growing".

It doesn't seem to me a bad situation, but the overall health of the disk drive can be (maybe) better guessed from other S.M.A.R.T. parameters:

but as said there you never know for sure.

The sanest approach (as I see it) is to use the disk and see if in a short time of use the "key" parameters change noticeably.

jaclaz

[UCyborg]

Nein, das ist nicht gut.

Now current pending sector count is over 1000. This drive is done for and the new bigger one costs about 50€ if I was in a hurry.

smartctl 7.2 2020-12-30 r5155 [x86_64-linux-5.13.0-48-generic] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-20, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Western Digital Caviar Green
Device Model:     WDC WD5000AADS-00S9B0
Serial Number:    WD-WCAV94916370
LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 102c17ef9
Firmware Version: 01.00A01
User Capacity:    500.107.862.016 bytes [500 GB]
Sector Size:      512 bytes logical/physical
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   ATA8-ACS (minor revision not indicated)
SATA Version is:  SATA 2.6, 3.0 Gb/s
Local Time is:    Sun May 14 08:37:22 2023 CEST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x84) Offline data collection activity
                                        was suspended by an interrupting command from host.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed
                                        without error or no self-test has ever 
                                        been run.
Total time to complete Offline 
data collection:                (10980) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine 
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        ( 129) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   5) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x3037) SCT Status supported.
                                        SCT Feature Control supported.
                                        SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x002f   200   200   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       8607
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0027   185   183   021    Pre-fail  Always       -       3750
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   087   087   000    Old_age   Always       -       13323
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   200   200   140    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   047   047   000    Old_age   Always       -       39160
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   091   091   000    Old_age   Always       -       9458
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   193   193   000    Old_age   Always       -       5877
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   131   131   000    Old_age   Always       -       208324
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   116   101   000    Old_age   Always       -       27
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0032   184   184   000    Old_age   Always       -       1375
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   184   184   000    Old_age   Offline      -       1372
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       166
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0008   001   001   000    Old_age   Offline      -       39925

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Short offline       Completed without error       00%        71         -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

On an unrelated note, Linux is still not ready for the desktop. Dolphin didn't bother telling me it encountered read errors calculating file checksum. So much for German engineering. Or maybe there are under-the-hood limitations that don't necessarily originate from Germany.

Edited May 14, 2023 by UCyborg

[D.Draker]

3 hours ago, UCyborg said:

Nein, das ist nicht gut.

Now current pending sector count is over 1000. This drive is done for and the new bigger one costs about 50€ if I was in a hurry.

smartctl 7.2 2020-12-30 r5155 [x86_64-linux-5.13.0-48-generic] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-20, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Western Digital Caviar Green
Device Model:     WDC WD5000AADS-00S9B0
Serial Number:    WD-WCAV94916370
LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 102c17ef9
Firmware Version: 01.00A01
User Capacity:    500.107.862.016 bytes [500 GB]
Sector Size:      512 bytes logical/physical
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   ATA8-ACS (minor revision not indicated)
SATA Version is:  SATA 2.6, 3.0 Gb/s
Local Time is:    Sun May 14 08:37:22 2023 CEST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x84) Offline data collection activity
                                        was suspended by an interrupting command from host.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed
                                        without error or no self-test has ever 
                                        been run.
Total time to complete Offline 
data collection:                (10980) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine 
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        ( 129) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   5) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x3037) SCT Status supported.
                                        SCT Feature Control supported.
                                        SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x002f   200   200   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       8607
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0027   185   183   021    Pre-fail  Always       -       3750
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   087   087   000    Old_age   Always       -       13323
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   200   200   140    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   047   047   000    Old_age   Always       -       39160
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   091   091   000    Old_age   Always       -       9458
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   193   193   000    Old_age   Always       -       5877
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   131   131   000    Old_age   Always       -       208324
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   116   101   000    Old_age   Always       -       27
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0032   184   184   000    Old_age   Always       -       1375
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   184   184   000    Old_age   Offline      -       1372
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       166
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0008   001   001   000    Old_age   Offline      -       39925

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Short offline       Completed without error       00%        71         -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

On an unrelated note, Linux is still not ready for the desktop. Dolphin didn't bother telling me it encountered read errors calculating file checksum. So much for German engineering. Or maybe there are under-the-hood limitations that don't necessarily originate from Germany.

D.Draker is clairvoyant. You should've listened. I wrote *right at the beginnig* of this journey to nowhere. One bad sector - the only straight road for that HDD is your garbage bin. 

 

[UCyborg]

I didn't actually trust it anymore ever since I noticed, but since it's still in the computer and have it backed up, no harm done playing with it.

[D.Draker]

On 5/14/2023 at 7:42 AM, UCyborg said:

I didn't actually trust it anymore ever since I noticed, but since it's still in the computer and have it backed up, no harm done playing with it.

Well, again from my longish decades with HDDs, it makes sense to play only with those that have Raw Read Errors, but not Bad sectors,

with their Raw read errors (usually several, better only one) some may still live for years.

[D.Draker]

Yesterday I decided to refresh my external HDD data, and ............. surprise - it didn't start !

Yes, the LED is on, Windows constantly installing a driver ! The disk is silent.

Take a guess, or I will  tell you it was the failed PSU. Made in China, but on the side it said gov.in ?!?!??! India ?

The external disk is from 2020. WD 6TB EasyStore brand. The HDD itself is fine,

Again, that's why we need to use European goods, made in Germany or France.

[mjd79]

23 hours ago, D.Draker said:

One bad sector - the only straight road for that HDD is your garbage bin. 

 

Such a drive can be exploited if you are at least a little in the subject, control its condition, copy the data to another medium regularly. On top of that, it can't be a complete s*** like Seagate DM. If the model is highly failing, the number of reallocated sectors is more than single digits in RAW, even knowledgeable people should not take risks. To complete laymen and average users, I actually recommend replacing the drive when the drive begins to physically degrade.

My record in this regard is using a defective Samsung 160GB for at least 6 years. Of the 145GB of data on it, I managed to recover some 110GB. I completely ignored its condition at the time, and that's how it ended up (hundreds or maybe thousands of bad sectors...).

Edited May 15, 2023 by mjd79

[D.Draker]

4 hours ago, mjd79 said:

Such a drive can be exploited if you are at least a little in the subject, control its condition, copy the data to another medium regularly. On top of that, it can't be a complete s*** like Seagate DM. 

To gain what ? Apart from the very interesting, fascinating hobby of copying data regularly. 

[UCyborg]

I do try to be open minded when it comes to country of origin when it comes to these things and while it doesn't seem that literally everything coming from "there" is a total piece of crap, I think that delegating EVERYTHING to China has gone too far.

There was a bit of an educational piece on one of the news broadcasts recently about eye sight. Glasses are an easier and cheaper fix if you're scared to go under the laser to correct your eye sight. And guess what was said, the West develops them, China puts them together. So it's either a laser or the glasses that came from China.

I've read few times when it comes to electronics that if strict controls aren't in place, they like taking shortcuts and using lower quality materials. Though this could happen anywhere.