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98SE install prep for Dell Latitude D830


beansmuggler
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Completed, but nothing changed. ESDI_506.PDR is still on the 2222 version tho, should I try to update that to 2225 or newer?

 

Also, while I'm not sure if it has any significance, I didn't get a "this file already exists, do you want to overwrite?" warning when copying CONFIGMG, though I did for IOS, though I'm certain they have both been copied to the right place.

Edited by beansmuggler
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First about your second question. During Setup, most vxd's of a certain class are 'bound together' in one file: VMM32.VXD (in %windir%\SYSTEM). The directory 'VMM32' can be fully empty! Sometimes Setup will copy one or more vxd's to the  VMM32-directory. If an updated vxd is needed, it can be copied to this directory. Such vxd's are loaded during boot instead of their counterparts in VMM32.VXD! In your case IOS.VXD will already have been in the VMM32-folder. I have seen this in Windows 98SE installations on my own motherboards too.

BTW be aware there are other types of vxd's too. You can find them in %windir%\SYSTEM and in %windir%\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS.

About ESDI_506.PDR: I don't expect anything in this direction. But feel free to try. My opinion: do not use the unofficial 48-bit updates if you are using HCDP and SATA RLOEW-updates who patch ESDI_506.PDR. On my boards I had bad experiences.

As lender of last resort an Unofficial Service Pack can be used. To stay at the safe side, I would suggest OLD 98 SE SP2 2.1a Stable, NOT the 3.xx versions. I am not against them, but reinstalling Windows will not overwrite all updated files. If one wanted to get rid of them, sometimes FORMAT C: is the best option (apart from installation in a new Windows directory with a different name, like 'Win98SE').

Edited by deomsh
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Thanks, I'll have to try those out.

One thing I noticed after copying the last 2 vxd's over is that restarting in MS DOS mode allows me access to the CD drive just fine using MSCDEX, though it pauses for a second or two while it waits for the drive to get ready. I think something in normal mode is "impatient" and doesn't wait for the CD drive to get ready, so it fails to recognize it and provides the yellow exclamation mark. A similar thing happens when I start up the computer and choose to boot from CD/DVD: if I choose to boot instantly, it ignores it and goes to HDD booting, but if I wait a few seconds and then choose to boot from CD/DVD, it allows me to do that. If this doesn't work, is there perhaps some setting that would make 98SE wait for the drive to be ready instead of giving up on it?

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Perhaps trying to boot from floppy (a:) first would create the delay needed for the CD drive to fully spin up.

Or in bios change the CD drive interface mode to "auto".

 

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23 hours ago, beansmuggler said:

. I think something in normal mode is "impatient" and doesn't wait for the CD drive to get ready, so it fails to recognize it and provides the yellow exclamation mark.

This is not clear to me. Has the CD-DRIVE a yellow exclamation mark, or (parts of) the Controller?

Maybe a picture would be helpfull. From the Resources tab too. Are there any Error Codes in Device Manager, or IRQ or I/O conflicts?

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7 hours ago, jumper said:

Perhaps trying to boot from floppy (a:) first would create the delay needed for the CD drive to fully spin up.

Or in bios change the CD drive interface mode to "auto".

 

Gave this a shot, but even making the HDD boot dead last so the CD boots first, and booting from hard disk thru the windows 98 disk, it didn't recognize the drive, so maybe it's not timing? Unless something happens in the boot process to ignore it idk

5 hours ago, deomsh said:

This is not clear to me. Has the CD-DRIVE a yellow exclamation mark, or (parts of) the Controller?

Maybe a picture would be helpfull. From the Resources tab too. Are there any Error Codes in Device Manager, or IRQ or I/O conflicts?

It's the "Primary IDE controller (dual fifo)" under "Intel ICH8M Ultra ATA Storage Controllers - 2850" with the yellow exclamation point. The Resource tab for the dual fifo shows "No conflicts.", and it's only after editing the bottom-most value in Resources to another range that the exclamation point goes away, which allows the CD drive to load and appear in Device Manager. The error code in Device Manager is Code 10.

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Hmm. Code 10 gives no clue I'm afraid.

If there are no conflicts seen in the original 'Basic configuration' you can try following. 

1) Check if there is any NOIDE-entry in your registry. Remove! More details here: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/solve-ms-dos-compatibility-mode-problems-on-pci-ide-controllers-with-these-troubleshooting-tips/

2) Write down ALL what is showed in the Basic configuration. Probably only IRQ's and Input/Output (I/O) addresses.

3) Then change to your working 'Configuration'. Compare the two configurations and write down the values NOT used in the working configuration.

4) Go to Properties of Computer (still inside Device Manager) and open the tab  'Reserve Resources'. Reserve the Resources from the Basic configuration that are NOT  used in your working configuration. Probably only I/O-addresses. After next boot Windows will be forced to use other, available, Resources.

5) Reboot and pray.

BTW I'm not sure if this procedure must be done in Normal mode or in Safe mode. Personally I never needed it. Just an idea based on 'PC HULP', a Dutch translation of a German book from Andreas Voss and Thorsten Konetzko (publisher Easy Computing). :ph34r:

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I tried both of these options but sadly they didn't work. I tried reinstalling and doing these from a fresh install too, but it didn't work out.

I tried the NOIDE route, but my registry didn't have NOIDE in it, even after a reinstall. The only note listed on the Performance tab is "Drive A is using the MS-DOS compatibility mode file system", which is strange because I don't have a floppy drive installed.

For the resource trick, my Ultra ATA only has one configuration given:

Input/Output Range 01F0-01F7
Input/Output Range 03F6-03F6
Interrupt Request  14
Input/Output Range 6FA0-6FAF

The last one is shown as 6FA0-6FA7 when looking at the Resources tab on the Primary IDE controller.

Since the last field is the only one I'm able to edit, I changed it to 6FE0-6FEF, which was the first available range I found when going upward (under Primary IDE controller, this will show as 6FE0-6FE7). Did a restart and was back to the same problem.

From here, I changed the last entry back to 6FA0-6FAF and checked the "Use automatic settings" box. This made the first 2 I/O ranges disappear, changed the last one to 1000-100F (the last range disappears under the resources tab of Primary IDE controller for unknown reasons here), reveals the CD drive, and also creates a Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo) for unknown reasons (funny enough, it will do this even if you explicitly set the Ultra ATA's Dual IDE Channel Settings to "Only Primary IDE Channel Enabled"). After restarting, the Ultra ATA now has the yellow exclamation mark (Primary IDE controller does not appear under it) and it claims to have a resource conflict because it's trying to use the range that was set to System Reserved earlier.

I feel like the machine is only working because the resources are actually being changed rather than being on any "correct setting" for some reason, since I can probably choose any range of values and it will work only until I reboot. Maybe I'd need to make a tool that changes the resources after each boot so it shows up? Also, would turning Multi Core Support back on in the BIOS help?

Edited by beansmuggler
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I am sorry to hear that.

Maybe another possibility, if you didn't tried already: 

1) Set Connections of your current Hard Disk Controller to 'None'. DO NOT DELETE! Reboot....

2) Go to Control Panel and use Add New Hardware Wizard to install manually 'Standard IDE/ESDI Hard Disk Controller' and reboot. 

BTW you probably will loose DMA-access with this controller!

Edit: some pictures of my -virtual- system after this operation (I needed TWO Standard IDE/ESDI Controllers): http://imgur.com/gallery/kk3oJdB

Edited by deomsh
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No luck with this one either. It seems to have the same problems as "Primary IDE controller" did, and I cannot change the resources on it. I could get the CD drive to appear if I chose to install the driver without restarting, but it would disappear after a reboot.

After trying this a few more ways with some different drivers, I realized that I hadn't looked up the CD drive online, so I popped "HL-DT-ST DVD+-RW GSA-T21N" into Ecosia and found three different revisions on Dell's website. On the driver page for my computer on Dell's site, they listed firmware version A102 as the latest version, though I found a version A103 listed as an older driver after A102 didn't help. I tried each one by doing the resource trick to make the CD drive appear, then running the firmware update until I finally got to A103. In the end, it still didn't work, but I guess this may help with any future fixes.

I also realize that I have neglected to state that, when the CD drive appears, it does just that - like my hard drive (not the controller, but the drive itself), it just appears without Add New Hardware appearing to tell me. I assume this is normal, but I'm noting it here just in case.

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1 hour ago, beansmuggler said:

No luck with this one either. It seems to have the same problems as "Primary IDE controller" did, and I cannot change the resources on it. I could get the CD drive to appear if I chose to install the driver without restarting, but it would disappear after a reboot.

I do not fully understand. Were, after setting the Ultra Ata controller to 'No connections' the resources used before free (after rebooting)? IRQ's 14 and 15 should be NOT used anymore, can be seen in Properties of Computer inside Device Manager (everything before manually installing the new controller). 

After installing a Standard IDE/ESDI Controller the Add New Hardware Wizard states the settings can be altered in Device Manager before shutting down the computer. At least on my System. 

I had choice between several Basic Configurations, some with conflicts, some without.  No need to change individual resources. But my system found the drives only after restarting Windows (second restart in the whole process).

BTW, the Controller's Driver should 'find' the drive, that's fully normal in my experience.

Edited by deomsh
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8 minutes ago, deomsh said:

I do not fully understand. Were, after setting the Ultra Ata controller to 'No connections' the resources used before free? IRQ's 14 and 15 should be NOT used anymore, can be seen in Properties of Computer inside Device Manager (everything before manually installing the new controller).

After installing a Standard IDE/ESDI Controller the Add New Hardware Wizard states the settings can be altered in Device Manager before shutting down the computer. At least on my System.

I had choice between several Basic Configurations, some with conflicts, some without.  No need to change individual resources. But my system found the drives only after restarting Windows (second restart in the whole process).

BTW, the Controller's Driver should 'find' the drive, that's fully normal in my experience.

After setting it to "No IDE Channels enabled" and restarting my computer, the Ultra ATA let go of IRQ 14 (no device on the system has IRQ 15) and the first two IO ranges, leaving only 6FA0-6FAF.

When I install the IDE/ESDI driver, the IDE/ESDI automatically claims the IRQ and IO ranges that were released by Ultra ATA:

Input/Output Range 03F6
Input/Output Range 01F0-01F7
Interrupt Request  14

If I choose "No" when Windows asks me to restart, the screen pauses for a second, and then I can go to Device Manager and see the DVD+-RW under the IDE/ESDI, but it will disappear after I reboot. It does not let me change individual resource setting values, but I can choose from 8 different configurations:

  • Configuration 0 is the one shown above.
  • Configurations 2 and 4-6 conflict with Direct access memory controller.
  • Configurations 1 and 7 use IO ranges with IRQ 14 and 15 (if I choose the one with IRQ 15, every configuration except 0 switches to IRQ 15).

When I choose any configuration that uses IRQ 15, the exclamation point goes away, but I think that's because nothing's there -- if I set the Ultra ATA to "Both IDE Channels enabled", the Secondary IDE controller uses IRQ 15, while the Primary IDE controller uses 14. When I use any IRQ 14 configuration, it gives a Code 10 error.

Funny enough, I decided to try the conflicting configurations, and all of them came up as "No conflict" except for configuration 2. However, they were still stuck under Code 10 errors.

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Thanks, I see no errors in the procedure.

You can continue in three different directions.

1) Updating Drivers. Did you already tried the Unofficial Service Pack I suggested earlier?

2) Take your loss and try using your MS-DOS CD-ROM-drivers inside Windows (some drawbacks: at least no Long File Names, burning software will not work and no digital audio available). Just un-rem MSCDEX in AUTOEXEC.BAT.

3) Trying a new installation in a Windows-directory with a different name, with following procedure in two stages.

Stage One: installation  without PCI-BUS to determine if CD-ROM acces is possible at all. If not, you're lost in space. If there IS actually CD-ROM access, continue with Stage Two.

Stage Two: first delete Standard VGA (without reboot!) and then manually add the PCI-BUS with Add New Hardware Wizard and continue installing PCI-Devices.

Following setup-line is needed for Stage One: SETUP /P I,S=DETECTBUS,DETECTFLOPPY (watch the space between P and I). Instead of 'I' an ACPI installation is possible too, with 'J' instead of 'I'. Depends on the 'desired' installation in Stage Two.


BTW skipping detection of the Floppy Disk Controller by adding DETECTFLOPPY is not stricty necessary, but can be helpfull *somehow*.

 

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