Andalu Posted January 21 Posted January 21 20 hours ago, Cixert said: What is /All option? On another computer with 8GiB RAM I'm using the double PAE addon by Dibya. As this is for nLite I've written some instructions for using it by copy and paste. Sorry, it's in Spanish, maybe you can read it with the translator but there are quite long, extensive and complicated. I'll try it on this other computer to see if it works with GPT +2TiB. After testing I'll confirm. https://foro.elhacker.net/windows/como_superar_el_limite_de_4_gb_de_ram_en_windows_xp2000-t430302.0.html;msg2240419#msg2240419 The WinXPPAE patch v3.5 enables recognition of the full amount of RAM installed in the system with the "/M:ALL" option or 4GB with the "/M:4GB" option. It has always worked without any problems. It is a pity there are problems with the Paragon driver. I had tried the PAE addon by Dibya in the past but it had never worked on my systems. When I have some time on my hands I will try it again following your instructions, thanks
Andalu Posted January 21 Posted January 21 (edited) Thanks to the Paragon GPT Loader driver v10.1.25.779, HDDs initialized as GPT can be recognized correctly in XP as data disks, but only if the motherboard bios has the option to enable IDE mode. In AHCI mode, GPT HDDs are not recognized even with the Paragon driver. The following way could allow XP to recognize GPT partitions using the GPT_Loader driver even on a system configured in AHCI mode. It is required to use a PCI-Express to Sata card with the Asmedia ASM1061 chipset which must have a selector button that allows you to choose between three positions: "AHCI Boot", "no Boot" and "IDE Boot". I have tested these two ASM1061 cards: this is the back of one of them (the other contains the same info on the rear): After selecting "No Boot" and plugging the card into the PCI-Express slot, on the boot XP recognizes it immediately as "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE controller" with "Primary and Secondary IDE Channels". No Asmedia driver required. Here is how the GPT disk just plugged to the Asmedia card is recognized by XP before installing the Paragon driver: I chose to install the Paragon driver using a different gpt_loader.inf than the original one. Thanks to the two users "DCT" and "satmonk" with posts #30 dated 10/18/2015 at 14:31 and #33 dated 02/2/2017 at 21:08 at link: http://hardwarefetish.com/524-paragon-gpt_loadersys-bsod-analysis-and-fix it is possible to create a special .inf file that can be used to install the Paragon GPT Loader v10.1.25.779 only for the GPT disk just connected to the PCI to Sata card. I made some changes in the gpt_loader.inf file mentioned in the previous link: under the section [Strings] where I replaced Paragon = "Paragon and Co BIG HDD" with Paragon = "Paragon Software Group" and DiskId1 = "3Tb HDD disk driver" with DiskId1 = "GUID Partition table Driver Disc" The installation procedure of the Paragon driver must be executed by selecting the GPT disk -> update driver -> (advanced) -> don't search -> have disk -> browse to the path containing the required files (gpt_loader.sys, gpt_loader.cat and the special gpt_loader.inf file created above). You will get this warning: and of course you need to choose "Yes" to install the driver. The system reboot is prompted by the system, and the azure screen asking to chkdsk the GPT disk will probably appear during the next boot. I avoided doing this the first time and did it in another test, in both cases I found no problems with proper HDD operation. The driver installation procedure described above is needed for each new GPT disk connected to the asmedia card. Here is how the disk is now detected: Below is a 16TB GPT disk connected to the same asmedia board (although it has 4 sata ports only two disks connected at the same time seem to be working): In XP, I wrote many GB to the 4TB disk and then tested all the files, which were undamaged. I ran chkdsk in both XP and Win10 for both GPT disks and no error was detected. Switching disks between these O.S. also worked well. I also got the same results by selecting "IDE Boot" mode on the same Asmedia PCI-Ex cards. Some notes: - in my test I used disk.sys v5.1.2600.5597 and partmgr.sys v5.1.2600.5512. The versions from win2003 of these drivers can result in data corruption; - one or two time I encountered the error code 39 during the installation of the GPT Loader for disks just connected to the card. A restart is enough to overcome that error and then the disk is correctly detected as GPT; - due to possible incompatibility with the Paragon driver, the WinXPPAE patch to recognize the total RAM installed in the system or only 4GB can't be used, otherwise data corruption occurs; - after the first chkdsk of the 4TB disk executed in Win10, the next time it was connected to XP it was necessary to re-install the Paragon driver, which then did not happen for the 16TB disk and other GPT disks; - I tried five GPT disks connected to the asmedia board and all has been recognized correctly but I cannot be sure that this is the case for any GPT disk; - the disks tested shutdown correctly when removed via the HotSwap! tool. Please consider that I have not had the opportunity to examine in depth all aspects of using GPT disks in the above mode due to lack of time (and later will probably have even less). Those interested in trying it out will have to be aware of the risks associated with possible data loss, so it is better not to use disks with important data. What I have reported above is what has occurred on my system. Proper working on other systems is not guaranteed, because other things may lead to a different result from the one I got. Anyone who would like to apply the above method does so at his own risk. Edited January 21 by Andalu 1
Andalu Posted January 22 Posted January 22 I also just tried this PCI-Express to eSATA card with ASM1061 chipset: and also in this case, both 4TB and 16TB GPT disks connected directly to the eSata ports of the same card seem to work smoothly thanks to the Paragon driver v10.1.25.779. 1
Cixert Posted January 22 Author Posted January 22 (edited) 19 hours ago, Andalu said: The WinXPPAE patch v3.5 enables recognition of the full amount of RAM installed in the system with the "/M:ALL" option or 4GB with the "/M:4GB" option. It has always worked without any problems. It is a pity there are problems with the Paragon driver. I had tried the PAE addon by Dibya in the past but it had never worked on my systems. When I have some time on my hands I will try it again following your instructions, thanks I have installed the patch to get +4 GiB RAM. I recommend my method B which has several renamed hals and allows alternatively to boot with the original XP hal in boot.ini. That is, the system is not modified, except for updating several drivers so that they are compatible with +4 GiB RAM as @Dibya points out. 1-After booting with the hal modified the first thing I found is that the PCI Express video card with chip Nvidia GeForce 7300 LE no longer limits the system to 2 GiB RAM, now I can use all the RAM available in Windows XP. 2-Acronis Disk Director has stopped working, I know they have a special system called "Extended Capacity" to handle +2TiB hard drives in Windows XP, but I don't know if it is present in this version or was discontinued in 2015. https://forum.acronis.com/forum/acronis-true-image-home-forum-older-versions/cleanup-utility-and-extended-capacity?ckattempt=1 In any case Acronis installs a driver in Windows XP and the program has stopped working. I have to check if it also works on another computer, since even if I boot XP with the original hal it still doesn't work. 3- I'm testing the Toshiba 6Tb drive that has a 512-byte physical sector and the data is wrong after 1.4 TiB. I don't know what the problem is with this limit that several programs have already pointed out. Thank goodness @Andalu that you pointed them out, otherwise sooner or later I would have corrupted my data. The test has not finished yet. DO NOT USE GPT DRIVES WITH MODIFIED HALS TO GET +4 GiB RAM ON XP. The problem may also exist with any type of PAE or maybe the problem is with the drivers modified to work with +4 GiB RAM @Dibya Edited January 22 by Cixert 1
Cixert Posted January 22 Author Posted January 22 (edited) On the other hand, I have been testing the capabilities of the NTFS file system in Windows Seven x64 and I have found several important peculiarities. With any of these characteristics or perhaps the combination of both, the NTFS file system is limited to 32 bits with GPT hard disks. -BIOS legacy -IDE mode. -All Windows operating system 32 bits. I have tried to format a partition with cluster 512 bytes over 2 TiB from Windows Seven x64 and it results in an error "Windows cannot finish formatting". In theory GPT hard drives work with 64 bits unlike MBR. But the reality is that if you format it in UEFI systems over the cluster limits that I am going to point out the hard disk will work corrupting the data if it is set to: -BIOS legacy -IDE mode. -All Windows operating system 32 bits. I do not have a computer with UEFI system to verify that it is possible to format GPT with 64 bits. In any case I recommend not exceeding these cluster sizes in NTFS to maximize the compatibility of the GPT hard disk. If you have a computer with UEFI, please check if MiniTool Partition Wizard allows you to choose the format over these limits on Windows x64. The limit in the indicated systems is 32 bytes minus a few bytes. If you format a GPT or MBR partition with 2 TiB and cluster 512 bytes to NTFS the data will be corrupted. NTFS PARTITION LIMITS Cluster 0.5 KiB = 1.99 TiB / 2047.99 GiB / 2097151.99 MiB Cluster 1 KiB = 3.99 TiB / 4095.99 GiB / 4194303.99 MiB Cluster 2 KiB = 7.99 TiB / 8191.99 GiB / 8388607.99 MiB Cluster 4 KiB = 15.99 TiB / 16384.99 GiB / 16777215.99 MiB Cluster 8 KiB = 31.99 TiB / 32767.99 GiB / 33554431.99 MiB Cluster 16 KiB = 63.99 TiB / 65535.99 GiB / 67108863.98 MiB Cluster 32 KiB = 127.99 TiB / 131071.99 GiB / 134217727.96 MiB Cluster 64 KiB = 255.99 TiB / 262143.99 GiB / 268435455.93 MiB Cluster 128 KiB = 511.99 TiB / 524287.99 GiB / 536870911.87 MiB Cluster 256 KiB = 1023.99 TiB / 1048575.99 GiB / 1073741823.75 MiB ...and so on to cluster 32768 KiB = 131040.00 TiB *Values from cluster 2/4/8/16/32/64/128/256 KiB have been calculated by the previous amounts and I have not verified their correct operation. I think the calculation is 2^32 -1 cluster. Edited January 22 by Cixert I think the calculation is 2^32 -1 cluster. 1
Cixert Posted January 22 Author Posted January 22 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cixert said: I do not have a computer with UEFI system to verify that it is possible to format GPT with 64 bits. In any case I recommend not exceeding these cluster sizes in NTFS to maximize the compatibility of the GPT hard disk. If you have a computer with UEFI, please check if MiniTool Partition Wizard allows you to choose the format over these limits on Windows x64. From what I'm reading the NTFS file system is limited to 32 bits, so the above limits cannot be exceeded in any case. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/storage/file-server/ntfs-overview In theory the difference between MBR and GPT is that GPT is capable of redirecting 64 bytes of physical sectors. So it is possible to exceed 2 TiB by formatting with a cluster size of 4 kIB on a disk with 512 byte physical sectors. Which would also be possible on an MBR with 4096 byte physical sectors. I'm going to test my Toshiba 6 TB with 512 byte physical sectors in MBR. Edited January 22 by Cixert 1
Dave-H Posted January 22 Posted January 22 19 hours ago, Andalu said: I also just tried this PCI-Express to eSATA card with ASM1061 chipset: and also in this case, both 4TB and 16TB GPT disks connected directly to the eSata ports of the same card seem to work smoothly thanks to the Paragon driver v10.1.25.779. Do you think one of these cards might solve my problem? My Silicon Image-based card does not recognise my 3TB disk properly at all, it doesn't appear in Disk Management, and in Device Manager, although it appears, it says it's unreadable when I try to populate the volumes. I also have two Asmedia 160x-based cards. They both see the disk properly, and I can populate the volumes, and they appear correctly in Disk Management. Unfortunately, there is really bad filesystem corruption when I go between Windows XP and Windows 10, which makes it unusable. Do you think that an Asmedia ASM1061-based card would perhaps be better? I realise that the only way to find out is to try it, of course, but it does mean buying another card!
Cixert Posted January 22 Author Posted January 22 6 hours ago, Cixert said: DO NOT USE GPT DRIVES WITH MODIFIED HALS TO GET +4 GiB RAM ON XP. The problem may also exist with any type of PAE or maybe the problem is with the drivers modified to work with +4 GiB RAM @Dibya Well I stopped the test before it finished, there was no point in continuing. Warning: Only 5717283 of 5723166 MByte tested. The media is likely to be defective. 1.3 TByte OK (2829123352 sectors) 1.6 TByte DATA LOST (3609817586 sectors) Details:1.6 TByte overwritten (3609817586 sectors) 0 KByte slightly changed (< 8 bit/sector, 0 sectors) 0 KByte corrupted (0 sectors) 157.8 MByte aliased memory (323352 sectors) First error at offset: 0x000001504f000000 Expected: 0x000001504f000000 Found: 0x000001504ef00000 H2testw version 1.3 1
Dave-H Posted January 23 Posted January 23 @Andalu I've now bought this ASM1061 card. It wasn't expensive, so it's worth a try. We will see!
Andalu Posted January 23 Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Dave-H said: @Andalu I've now bought this ASM1061 card. It wasn't expensive, so it's worth a try. We will see! I have a card very similar to this one. I tried it again a few days ago and with GPT disks there is data corruption. I hope I am wrong and that it will work for you.
Dave-H Posted January 23 Posted January 23 That's disappointing to hear. I will give it a try though. It hasn't got the boot selection option that you mentioned in a previous post, perhaps that's the key, because I think you said that one of those cards did work without corruption. Can you give me a link to a card that you did get to work? It has to be a physically small PCI Express x1 card like the one I've bought if I'm going to use it in the motherboard slot that I need to use.
Cixert Posted January 23 Author Posted January 23 (edited) On 1/23/2025 at 12:09 AM, Cixert said: Well I stopped the test before it finished, there was no point in continuing. Warning: Only 5717283 of 5723166 MByte tested. The media is likely to be defective. 1.3 TByte OK (2829123352 sectors) 1.6 TByte DATA LOST (3609817586 sectors) Details:1.6 TByte overwritten (3609817586 sectors) 0 KByte slightly changed (< 8 bit/sector, 0 sectors) 0 KByte corrupted (0 sectors) 157.8 MByte aliased memory (323352 sectors) First error at offset: 0x000001504f000000 Expected: 0x000001504f000000 Found: 0x000001504ef00000 H2testw version 1.3 I have repeated the test without changing the HAL but with the PAE drivers. Now there are no errors, it is clear that the problem is with the HAL change. @Andalu did you test, if there is also a 2TiB limit, with the W2003 drivers with PAE? Please tell me what is the name of the drivers for your hal with PAE enabled. In the device manager under the "Computer" tab. Also tell me what type of computer you have in this tab. For example: ACPI compatible computer. I think the 2TiB limits we see in other circumstances are also related to the XP HAL. Edited January 24 by Cixert
Cixert Posted January 23 Author Posted January 23 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Dave-H said: That's disappointing to hear. I will give it a try though. It hasn't got the boot selection option that you mentioned in a previous post, perhaps that's the key, because I think you said that one of those cards did work without corruption. Can you give me a link to a card that you did get to work? It has to be a physically small PCI Express x1 card like the one I've bought if I'm going to use it in the motherboard slot that I need to use. Sorry for my ignorance... what's the advantage of using an eSATA connector? Can't you use an external SATA connector or put a SATA extension cable that connects to your caddy? It's going to be difficult to find a working eSATA card, I'm looking for anything that is compatible with MBR +2TiB. Maybe what is compatible with MBR +2TiB is also compatible with GPT +2TiB. Let's see if we're lucky and we don't have to buy every model on the market. I asked chatGPT and after much insistence, since he didn't want to answer, he told me the following chips (considering that chatGPT is not at all reliable but maybe he's right...) To use disks larger than 2 TiB in MBR with eSATA, it is essential that the SATA controller supports it. Some eSATA controllers that have been proven to work with MBR +2 TiB are: PCIe to eSATA controller cards supporting MBR +2 TiB Marvell 88SE9230 Marvell 88SE9215 ASMedia ASM1061 (some versions, depends on firmware) JMicron JMB36x (some older models may support it, but not all) Tell me cards that have those chips Below are some PCIe cards that feature the above chipsets and support disks larger than 2TiB on MBR partitioned systems: 1. Cards with Marvell 88SE9230 chipset: SYBA SI-PEX40058: This card offers 2 internal SATA III ports and 2 external eSATA ports, supporting RAID 0, 1, 10, and JBOD configurations. SYBA USA PCIe card to 4 SATA III 6Gbps + 2 eSATA ports: Uses the Marvell 88SE9230 chipset and provides 4 internal SATA ports and 2 external eSATA ports, supporting RAID configurations. NEWEGG BUSINESS 2. ASMedia ASM1061 Chipset Cards: StarTech PEXESAT322I: Provides 2 SATA III ports that can be configured as internal or external (eSATA), using the ASM1061 chipset. STARTECH PCIe to eSATA Expansion Card: Equipped with the ASMedia ASM1061 controller, this card provides eSATA ports with transfer speeds of up to 6Gbps. AMAZON These cards are viable options for using hard drives larger than 2TiB in systems that employ the MBR partition scheme. However, it is important to ensure that your operating system and BIOS settings support large capacity drives in MBR. Are there drivers for Windows XP? ChatGPT Plus ChatGPT Yes, both the Marvell 88SE9230 and ASMedia ASM1061 have drivers for Windows XP. Marvell 88SE9230: Generally requires additional drivers, but there are versions that support Windows XP. They can be found on some PCIe card manufacturers that use this chip. ASMedia ASM1061: It has native support on some versions of Windows, but there are specific drivers for XP. They can be found on PCIe card manufacturers' websites or in driver repositories. If you need specific links to download drivers, let me know what exact card or model you have in mind. Edited January 23 by Cixert
Dave-H Posted January 23 Posted January 23 Thanks. I'm only using eSATA because that's the convenient way of physically connecting the caddy to the machine. The caddy has an eSATA socket on it, and the cards I've been using for years have externally accessible eSATA sockets. Of course eSATA and SATA are electronically identical, it's just a (supposedly) more robust connection system for external use. I do have the necessary connectors to connect the caddy directly to the motherboard. 'ASMedia ASM1061 (some versions, depends on firmware)' is slightly worrying. You can bet that the card I've just bought won't have the right firmware! Good to have it confirmed that there are XP drivers, although I had assumed that must be the case or @Andalu would not have been able to do his tests.
Andalu Posted January 23 Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Dave-H said: That's disappointing to hear. I will give it a try though. It hasn't got the boot selection option that you mentioned in a previous post, perhaps that's the key, because I think you said that one of those cards did work without corruption. Can you give me a link to a card that you did get to work? It has to be a physically small PCI Express x1 card like the one I've bought if I'm going to use it in the motherboard slot that I need to use. I can't suggest a card and give you the assurance that it will work on your system as well. As I wrote in a previous post, there are other aspects to keep in mind that can determine failure on one system and success on another. Among these, the characteristics of a disk are of essential importance. In your case, you should specify the type of connection you intend to use for your GPT disk: do you want to connect it directly to the motherboard or plug it into an enclosure? I know that the ideal solution would be to be able to use it in either case but it may be more difficult to achieve. Then, in the case of the external box, what kind of connection would you like to use, USB or eSata? If I'm not mistaken, you wrote that by connecting it directly to the sata port on the motherboard the drive is properly recognized with the Paragon driver, so I think your system is configured in IDE mode. Have you tried writing data to it by exceeding the 2TB limit yet verifying that data corruption does not occur? Without having this information, it is a bit complicated to make suggestions.
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