Cannot hook into DWM (AeroGlass 8.1 - 1.4)

[johne53]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask a question about the (3rd party) AeroGlass utility for Windows - but if not, my apologies.

 

I just installed Windows 10 and was disappointed to find that it doesn't offer Aero Glass (which was apparently available in the beta). So I downloaded this Aero Glass utility:- http://glass8.eu/download.html

 

When I tried to run it (on Windows 64) it displayed a message saying:- "Aero Glass doesn't know how to hook into DWM on your system." And it then told me to download some modules from Microsoft and try again. I can't remember now whether it wanted language modules or some other kind of module.

 

Anyone else had this problem..?

 

[Edit...] I just re-checked and it's asking me to download the correct symbols package (whatever that is...)

Edited August 31, 2015 by johne53

[jaclaz]

[Edit...] I just re-checked and it's asking me to download the correct symbols package (whatever that is...)

http://glass8.eu/guide.html

 

 

What are the DWM symbols and where to get them?

I see "Your DWM is incompatible" message. What to do?

Aero Glass for Win8.x+ works by injecting re-implemented code into several DWM functions. This can be achieved only when the absolute location of each function is known. These locations are described in special files called "program database" and you can recognize them by their .PDB extension. They contain set of all public DWM variables and functions (which are called symbols) together with their memory offsets (relative locations) and other information. Aero Glass for Win8.x+ is able to load these files from "symbols" directory stored in your Aero Glass installation directory, find appropriate symbol and compute absolute memory location.

Since Aero Glass for Win8.x knows how each DWM function should look like, it is able to find them without the need of the program databases. Thus, in normal situation, user should not bother about it at all. However, in some rare situations (e.g. some Windows update changes the look of the function), it may happen that known symbol is not found and the only possibility is to load its location from the external program database. The best practice to know more and to get symbol files is reading Microsoft's documentation (you will need symbol files for dwmcore.dll and udwm.dll). The most important thing is that the version of the program database must correspond to the used DWM library version.

 

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee416588(v=vs.85).aspx#getting_the_symbols_you_need

 

You have to understand how this software is experimental and for the moment reserved to "advanced users" and the Windows updates continuously change something, however read here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/174355-aero-glass-for-win81-14/?p=1107168

 

jaclaz

[johne53]

Thanks jaclaz. If I'm following your post correctly... am I right in thinking I've installed a Debug build of the software?? I wish the installer had made that a bit more obvious (cos I wouldn't have installed it!!)

[jaclaz]

Thanks jaclaz. If I'm following your post correctly... am I right in thinking I've installed a Debug build of the software?? I wish the installer had made that a bit more obvious (cos I wouldn't have installed it!!)

 

Let's say "unexpectedly"  

http://glass8.eu/win_future.html

 

 

jaclaz

Edited August 31, 2015 by jaclaz

[johne53]

Thanks jaclaz. I decided against installing the Debug Symbols pack (basically because no other software has ever asked for it) so for the time being, I've uninstalled AeroGlass.

 

I guess it's probably too soon for the devs to know when a final release will be ready but I'll keep checking back here periodically, in case there are any announcements.

[bigmuscle]

Actually, you should properly read this topic http://glass8.eu/guide.htmlbecause this is not problem at all and there will be no change.

[jaclaz]

Thanks jaclaz. I decided against installing the Debug Symbols pack (basically because no other software has ever asked for it) so for the time being, I've uninstalled AeroGlass.

Hmmm, interesting.

I have rarely seen this kind of fallacious argument  , it is just like pretending that you won't - say - procure plutonium for your nuclear 3 kW genset   because no other genset uses plutonium (which is obvious as all other small portable power generators use gas or diesel).

 

When you will have several programs with the same functionalities of Aeroglass, none of which will require you to download symbols, then the point will be worth of note.

 

Actually, you should properly read this topic http://glass8.eu/guide.htmlbecause this is not problem at all and there will be no change.

Well, to be fair - and with no offense intended - there are three possible cases:

a. people do read that page but decide to ignore its contents and senselessy report an issue with symbols (or another issue covered there)

b. people do not read that "guide" (and other pages on your site) before coming here reporting an issue with symbols

c. people do read that page but cannot understand its contents and thus come here to ask for support/assistance

 

Now, while there is nothing that can be done in case a. above , the method of bluntly referring (over and over and over) to the whole page may be helping in case b. not only it doesn't do anything in case c.  but possibly highlights that the contents on that page (and more generally the limitations of the software) are not as clear as they could be , as well - maybe - providing all the warnings and instructions/suggestions on separate pages might be not the best idea.

 

A casual passer-by will land to your site  home:

http://glass8.eu/

that mentions NOT the experimental status of the tool and how it's use is reserved to advanced users ONLY, BUT provides also a direct download link.

Even the "Features" page:

http://glass8.eu/features.html

does not touch the topic, as a matter of fact both pages manage to give the impression that the site is about a "normal", "tested/stable" program that everyone can use and install with no particular difficulties and without any particular OS knowledge requirement.

 

It would probably reduce the number of issue/reports if it was made more clear on those two pages the current status of the tool, how it is at the moment "reserved to advanced users only" and possibly also a clear description of it's nagware behaviour  (if you prefer expliciting the limitations that the tool has in the "free" version if the user does not "voluntarily donate"  "without a claim for consideration")  

 

jaclaz

[bigmuscle]

If you open the guide on my website, what's written on the first 3 lines?

 

 

• Can anyone install this software on his computer?
• This library is intended for advanced users only. If you are a beginner and you do not have at least basic system knowledge of Windows (such as registry editing etc.) you should not install this software

 

So if the user a) ignores this, b ) does not read this, c) does not understand this, he is not advanced enough... ;-)

 

But there is more complicated problem which is probably is not possible to solve anyhow - it is point A = total ignorance of any written descriptions/helps/guides/etc. I already came across some "technical professional website" which was describing my software and showed it is buggy and does not work at all. Funny thing were the pictures showing that they downloaded version marked as "IMPORTANT: This is for Windows 8 ONLY and it does NOT work on Windows 8.1." and installed it on Windows 8.1. It's weird that it did not work, isn't it? And I think there is no real help in such situation.

 

It is very similar about the symbols. I admit that the description on my website is not straight-forward. And it is not intended to be - if user does not want to support the development of this software, he should not get any straight-forward support from the developers. However, if he already found this forum, he can probably find that there is already trillion posts how to solve DWM incompatibility. But he will rather spend his time with registering, asking the question and waiting for an answer.

Edited September 1, 2015 by bigmuscle

[jaclaz]

You see where the issue might be, don't you?:

If you open the guide on my website, what's written on the first 3 lines?

 

A number of people will never get to the "guide" page if not after downloading the app and having failed at having it working and another number will likely overestimate his/her knowledge of the OS, believing (in good faith) to be an "advanced user".

 

You could change the distribution scheme.

 

You could remove the download links and have them "protected" behind a page only accessible after having successfully passed a test on OS knowledge, 3 or 5 questions with multiple answers selection would do nicely.

 

jaclaz

[johne53]

 

Thanks jaclaz. I decided against installing the Debug Symbols pack (basically because no other software has ever asked for it) so for the time being, I've uninstalled AeroGlass.

Hmmm, interesting.

I have rarely seen this kind of fallacious argument  , it is just like pretending that you won't - say - procure plutonium for your nuclear 3 kW genset   because no other genset uses plutonium (which is obvious as all other small portable power generators use gas or diesel).

 

 

If I don't want  a product which uses plutonium, that's a decision I'm perfectly entitled to make... aren't i ??

 

You can't blame customers if you make your product undesirable (or too troublesome) to use. In Windows 8 I've used WindowBlinds very successfully (to produce an Aero-like effect). I don't remember needing to install anything out of the ordinary. I just installed the product and it worked. That should be the goal for all software.

[jaclaz]

If I don't want  a product which uses plutonium, that's a decision I'm perfectly entitled to make... aren't i ??

Sure , that's an essential freedom of choice .

...

I just installed the product and it worked. That should be the goal for all software.

And again, yes, sure. and hopefully before or later that goal will be reached.

You were tricked into believing that Aeroglass was a "ready" and "good for all" tool, while it isn't or it isn't yet, as said probably a communication error.

jaclaz

[bigmuscle]

No, Aero Glass is finished software and ready.... for advanced users as stated on the website. The concept how it has been designed will never be changed. That's how this software works.

You can't blame customers if you make your product undesirable (or too troublesome) to use

Sure, but we can blame users if the "undesirability" is created by the ignorance to reading any guide.

In Windows 8 I've used WindowBlinds very successfully (to produce an Aero-like effect). I don't remember needing to install anything out of the ordinary. I just installed the product and it worked.

Sure, and that's why there was no real glass effect in WindowBlinds, only plain transparency, and you needed new version of WB for each version of Windows.

That should be the goal for all software.

No, the goal for all software is that user should read the guide how to setup the software correctly.

[cmdshft]

No, the goal for all software is that user should read the guide how to setup the software correctly.

 

 

Um, actually, the goal of most commonly used software is ease of installation and ease of use. You want people to use your software, and as such you should actual care enough to try and make things easy to understand. Not take the elitist route and say "well I explained it for an advanced user, so if you don't understand it, you are not advanced and I do not want your money (via donating to remove watermark)."

 

This is not the right way to go about it.

 

Even if it was, though, the way you have your site setup to "explain" to the advanced users on how to install is very vague.

 

For example, http://www.glass8.eu/guide.htmlis not even up to date remotely.

 

"Can anyone install this software on his computer?"

This library is intended for advanced users only. If you are a beginner and you do not have at least basic system knowledge of Windows (such as registry editing etc.) you should not install this software. Also, this guide counts that you are advanced user and explains several things in technical language.

 

 

This isn't even correct in the sense that you made installers for the users. One does not even need to do anything as far as registry editing is concerned.

 

Also, registry editing is NOT considered to be a basic system knowledge. Registry editing is very dangerous, even for the advanced users and is often taught to basic system users to not be tampered with and at the very least to make a backup of the registry in the event one messes up their system by editing something incorrectly.

 

You also improperly and confusingly add lower down the page to in fact use the installer anyway! So do you not want them to install the software if they don't know how to edit the registry or install it regardless?

 

The rest of the page is mostly complete (while still innacurate to a varying degree in that one does not need to make registry edits as you provide installers and a GUI tool to make changes). However, for the Windows 8 portion, you don't even make mention on how to inject your executables. You just say that they need to do so. I am a long time OS X users coming from Windows XP and Vista and I appreciate the glass looks of Windows and would love to have them on Windows 8 for example, and even though I am quite competent with OS X, I am still somewhat behind on some Windows things, so showing even the advanced users on how to do such a thing to get your software running would be helpful in the so called guide.

 

But as most users moved on to 8.1 and 10, this is basically irrelevant again using your installers.

 

All that being said, my only question is this; Why then does the "guide" page still exist? If it were I, I would delete it, and leave the main page as is with the exception of adding a third download for the GUI application and label it as beta.

 

I would then add a portion to the page saying "Want to remove the watermark? Donate, then follow the instructions in the email!"

 

Add the instructions in the email with the login info and stuff as you already have.

 

As the "testing" page has no links to any downloadable files, you should just remove it. It's confusing.

 

If you want to keep a guide page, I would provide a guide on how to create a theme atlas and load it.

 

Also, you should make the "Login to your account" link much more noticeable. It's tucked away in a hard to see spot for the user, and almost tricks one into thinking they have to donate again to access their donation.key files.

 

Please note, this is constructive criticism, nothing personal.

[bigmuscle]

Um, actually, the goal of most commonly used software is ease of installation and ease of use. You want people to use your software, and as such you should actual care enough to try and make things easy to understand. Not take the elitist route and say "well I explained it for an advanced user, so if you don't understand it, you are not advanced and I do not want your money (via donating to remove watermark)."

Actually, this is not complete true. The purpose of this software is not that I want people to use it. The purpose is educational (which is mentioned on the website) and I just want to share my work with others. I really do not care if someone will not use it.

Even if it was, though, the way you have your site setup to "explain" to the advanced users on how to install is very vague.

What's very vague in install description? It clearly describes that DLL needs to be injected into DWM, that the injection is done via task scheduler on Win8.1+ and describes one of the possibility how to inject it on Win8. What more do you need there?

There comes again the problem with user ignorance - normal user should understand that "Use A on Win8.1+ and use B on Win8" does not mean "Use B on Win8.1" and I really do not know how to describe more in detail.

For example, http://www.glass8.eu/guide.htmlis not even up to date remotely.

What's not up-to-date on this page?

 

...

Yes, I admit that the information in the guide does not have to be always straight-forward and some information is scattered between different pages. But that's why we have this forum - I don't understand something, so I will use this forum.

However, the purpose of the forum is not to create million topics with the same question. And almost all repeatadly asked question has already been addressed here. You can, for example, browse through old topic - it is not rare that there is a question, answer to this question and one post below is the same question asked again. Do you think there is some solution to this? User does not search, user does not read and he does not even read the last post in the topic and asks again the same thing. Is it ok?

About the installer... you are partially right with this. In the early development, I already considered that there will be no installer at all.

But I was asked many times to do, so I did it.

[jaclaz]

Well, to be fair, and just for the record, the page (before it was lastly updated):

https://web.archive.org/web/20150826221130/http://www.glass8.eu/win_future.html

To be continued...

You will find a testing preview versions for any future Windows update here when such update is officially released by Microsoft.

Any leaked update which you are using illegaly will NEVER and even technically can NOT be supported by this software.

WARNING: Versions available in this section are debug versions only. For this reason, they contain many means to provide easier debugging and more verbose error logging which cannot be disabled. If you are not interested in debugging then do not use these versions!

Aero Glass for Win8.1+ v1.4 provides support for Windows 10 up to build 10240 and experimentaly for build 10525.

!!! EXPERIMENTAL TESTING BUILD ONLY - DO NOT USE ON YOUR PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENT !!!

Your donation does NOT turn any preview/alpha/beta/rc testing version into the full usable release without debugging means!

!!! DO NOT USE WIN8.1 INSTALLER FOR THIS DEBUG VERSION !!!

!!! DO NOT INJECT DWMGLASS.DLL VIA OLD APPINIT_DLLS REGISTRY KEY !!!

!!! IF YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO ACCEPT THESE BOLD STATEMENTS AND READ THE GUIDE THEN DO NOT USE THIS DEVELOPMENT VERSION !!!

 

Had some slightly different contents from the current one:

http://glass8.eu/win_future.html

 

To be continued...

You will find a testing preview versions for any future Windows update here when such update is officially released by Microsoft.

Any leaked update which you are using illegaly will NEVER and even technically can NOT be supported by this software.

WARNING: Versions available in this section are debug versions only. For this reason, they contain many means to provide easier debugging and more verbose error logging which cannot be disabled. If you are not interested in debugging then do not use these versions!

Aero Glass for Win8.1+ v1.4 provides support for Windows 10 up to build 10240 and experimentaly for build 10525.

jaclaz