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Windows 10 - Deeper Impressions

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You know, Ed MicroBott has this easygoing, laid-back manner about him when he's on a podcast, but in reality he's a fierce apologist for all things Microsoft.

 

Someone should publish a comprehensive, comparative analysis of Windows 7 vs. Windows 10 chattiness and throw it in his face, see what he has to say then.

 

Maybe @NoelC can forward some of his results to Gordon Kelly for a rebuttal.

 

--JorgeA

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Thanks for the report, 351837.

 

 


Contacting me again a Microsoft spokesperson explained the company now wanted to speak about the issue. In short: Microsoft is taking action. It has decided to release updates “later this year” which will enable users to fully control all background telemetry and data tracking and, if desired, disable it completely. Microsoft also asked me to stress that disabling these background operations is something it would “strongly recommend against”.

 

Summary: Guys posts are deleted and he disappeared from site.

Archived posts: https://archive.is/QFL8e and  https://archive.is/9rQi1

 

 

Nice find! :thumbup

 

It would be interesting to learn just what sort of "action" Microsoft took. Curiously. the guy on Voat disappeared right after that. (Even his non-computer posts were deleted, although oddly enough the thread discussions remain online.)

 

--JorgeA

 

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And back to Zdnet

 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-has-no-plans-to-change-windows-10-consumer-privacy-settings/

 

Microsoft has no plans to change Windows 10 consumer privacy settings

Another report from Forbes turns out to be incorrect. Sources with direct knowledge of Windows product plans confirm that there are no plans to change privacy options for Windows 10.

 

An observation on something in Ed MicroBott's post:

 

That enterprise feature has some serious side effects that require mitigation work from IT pros. Most significant is the fact that enabling the Enterprise-only telemetry option, called Security, completely cuts off access to Windows Update, Windows Defender, and the Malicious Software Removal Tool. As a result, it is only recommended for organizations that have an alternative update infrastructure in place, such as Windows Server Update Services or System Center Configuration Manager.

[emphasis added]

 

Leave it to Microsoft to tie telemetry to Windows's security components.  :rolleyes:  The idea must be to make it as risky and onerous as possible to do without the snooping.

 

--JorgeA

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I have been watching since mid-2015 and have personally observed Windows 10 calling various motherships first hand (Microsoft has zillions of servers worldwide and also heavily uses CDNs).  I have the documentation to back it up. The notes I have been keeping about what internet addresses are contacted by what entities at what times by Windows (and what I have had to remove, reconfigure, or protect with ACLs to stop the comms) are over 1,000 lines long.  Let's just say they don't favor Bott's position that nothing's up.

 

Here is a very small excerpt...

 

​Just to be sure. I'm not trying to underestimate your work. BTW you've done great work with it. And Thank You for that.

​I posted this as addition to your tests because guys test version was Enterprise and according to M$ it suppose to be quiet when all telemetry options are disabled (IIRC)

 

 I have installed Virtualbox on the Linux Mint laptop, and installed Windows 10 Enterprise on Virtualbox. I have chosen the customized installation option where I disabled three pages of tracking options.

​EDIT: Someone should test LTSB version. That would be interesting to see. :yes:

Edited by 351837

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What IS the actual LTSB version? Is it Enterprise build 10240?

I don't have a desire to interact with Bott or Kelly.

-Noel

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What IS the actual LTSB version? Is it Enterprise build 10240?

-Noel

 

​Yes

16h0y7q.jpg

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What IS the actual LTSB version? Is it Enterprise build 10240?

I don't have a desire to interact with Bott or Kelly.

-Noel

It's a special branch of the Enterprise version. It's aimed at people who need something more stable system than standard Enterprise as such it only gets security updates and bug fixes and the 10586 update was/is not offered to LTSB clients.

Aside from only security updates the most notable difference between LTSB and standard Enterprise there are no metro apps. No store, no Edge, and it uses the Win32 calculator.

Edited by ptd163

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the 10586 update was/is not offered to LTSB clients.

 

Thank you for that additional piece of info. 

 

I have long wondered whether every new 4 month release could ultimately become an LTSB depending on when a user buys into the program.  I guess not being offered the update could still be different than getting the LTSB download afresh. 

 

Does a new user TODAY have the option to get a 10586 LTSB?

 

If it is indeed possible that any given "current" release build could become an LTSB in a particular circumstance, then it would conceivably be reasonable for a given user to accept new releases only as often as makes sense for them in their business environment - even only every 2 to 3 years, so it wouldn't be much different from going with major releases such as Windows XP, 7, 8, etc.

 

If in fact this is the way it really is, that the capability to "choose a particular release and stick with it for a while" isn't available at all to non-Enterprise users is the basic problem.  It leaves small business in the cold - and THAT's a colossal mistake.

 

So, in summary, two things:

 

1.  It's still not clear whether there is one and only one LTSB (build 10240) or any given 4 month release build could become an LTSB installation.

 

2.  Even if the better of the two possibilities in item 1 is realized, small business can't take advantage of it.

 

-Noel

Edited by NoelC

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Does a new user TODAY have the option to get a 10586 LTSB?

 

I don't think so. Although I can't say for certain as I don't have an LTSB VM to test on. I'm pretty sure they will be a new LTSB eventually due that branch being called <year> LTSB instead of just LTSB. I'm guessing they'll produce a new LTSB every year or every couple of years.

 

I found a link that might help: http://www.urtech.ca/2015/08/solved-what-is-windows-10-ltsb-long-term-servicing-branch

Edited by ptd163

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I like that diagram at that link; it clears things up.  Thanks!

 

Just thinking out loud...

 

Doesn't it sound pretty much like the LTSB is roughly the same as what we traditionally considered a major Windows release, then?

 

Except mere mortals who aren't part of an Enterprise can't own it.  So why can't Microsoft stand to sell a copy of the LTSB code to mere mortals?  Again, I'm thinking about how small business is just left out of this story.

 

Microsoft clearly wants small business to use the "Pro" variant, since only "big" businesses can even begin to consider buying Enterprise.  They've said as much.

 

Up to now a small business could get what they needed out of Pro (though I personally always bought Ultimate when it was available).  I'm not above paying for good software - I have always done so.  The licensing before 10 was such that you could count on what was in the OS for a year or two or three, and you could even skip a major version release. 

 

Now they think it's okay to disrupt operations every 4 months - like it or not.  Okay, the first one can be deferred a few months, but after that...  Even with my Re-Tweaker script (still in development) I'm not willing to live with forced downtime every 4 months.

 

I guess, since we CAN - with geekflips - stop Windows Updates.  But you stop EVERYTHING if you do so.  I suppose taken to the extreme, one could run without any updates at all for an indefinite amount of time, though without "security updates" there will be some risk...  And who knows?  Will Win 10 go bonkers without an update for an extended period of time?

 

We DO have a little time living with Windows 10 (in VMs) under our belts now, and I can honestly say that with the Win 10 configuration I had developed by about a week after the release of 10240, I could actually have been productive up until now.  10586 has been decent enough to use for a while now too.

 

But there is the spectre of one day build xxxxxx will come out and just delete functionality I will absolutely require.  With that hanging over my head, I can just stay off Win 10 altogether and reap all the same benefits - with an OS (8.1) that's permanently activated.

 

Unsaid is that I haven't yet found an App I need, nor even want.  One day that could change, but I'm just not seeing it being even close yet.  I sound ultra-conservative, but hey, I AM running Windows 8.1!  I'm not as conservative as those still hanging onto XP, or even 7.

 

-Noel

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 I sound ultra-conservative, but hey, I AM running Windows 8.1!  I'm not as conservative as those still hanging onto XP, or even 7.

 

Well, no. :no:

You are NOT running 8.1, you are running a heavily modified/tweaked 8.1 that after months of hard work, numberless tests and tweaks, you managed to tame into an OS that behaves (more or less) like 7.

 

Maybe we can say that the line for conservativeness is drawn at XP users, and that Vista SP2 and 7 SP1 users (please read as Vista SP4 :w00t:) are - more than conservative - practical.

 

To be not-conservative you would need to run 8.1 as delivered by MS with only very minor modifications (and optionally also like it ;))

 

jaclaz

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So the impression I am getting here is that Windows 8.1 is the way to go until Microsoft sells LTSB to anybody who wants it, most importantly small businesses and to a lesser extent power users. Not because Windows 8.1 is any good just that its the least bad option currently and is controlable by users and not subject to the whim of the children at Microsoft who want to be Apple when in fact their bread and butter is providing a stable and secure (rolls eyes ironically) platform for SMBs - everything else being a bi-product of the core raison d'etre and optional to a greater or lesser extent. I did try the LTSB code and it is exactly what I wanted from Microsoft 20 years ago let alone now - no bells and whistles just a base OS I can add the parts I need to in order to run a business, or a games machine, or a basic browse and facebook platform or whatever. In fact the LTSB code is the best I have ever seen from Microsoft it is ideal. Not for everybody but for business and power users - and specialist users who generally use Linux boxes set to to do exactly & only what they want, (I am thinking of the aviation and scientific / research communities here).

 

I am going to stick with Windows 7 and Windows 10 only on test boxes and VMs for the forseeable future, I hope Microsoft recognise as I am sure they will sooner or later that the massive segment of their user base I belong to require fine control of drivers, updates etc otherwise Microsoft going forward is finished as anything more than a toy and as we all know nature / politics / economics hate a vacumn.

 

Jonah

Edited by jonah8208

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Jaclaz is actually right, I've tweaked 8.1 pretty heavily to make it more "serious" and less apt to be chatty online.  Since I have reconfigured/tweaked/augmented EVERY version of Windows to make them better, I don't see what I've done with 8.1 as fundamentally different - though you could argue I've done a little MORE with it.  I never had to re-theme 7, for example, nor had to remove a whole set of Apps.  But I HAVE replaced the Start Menu (with Classic Shell) going all the way back.  I have augmented 7/Vista/XP/2000/NT4/NT3.5/and all the others with 3rd party software that does Good Things.

 

Win 10 isn't the first "bad" version.  I think of it as just a darker shade of gray, with NO bright spots making it attractive.

 

It's just that 8.1 was closer to the time that Microsoft cared about serious computing, and they hadn't ruined quite so many things yet.  It was a bit easier to resurrect usefulness - though to be fair I've already done that with Win 10 as well (in virtual machines).  With acceptance of some degradation of the desktop look and feel I could certainly live with Win 10.  It does what I need.  Just not better in any way I can discern (and trust me, I've looked hard).

 

The advantage to my having chosen to do all this to 8.1 is that it has a bit longer "supported life" than 7 - though does that matter any more?  "Support" from Microsoft has devolved into a "we've got a foot in the door, let's push Win 10 through it" situation.  I haven't taken any updates on any systems this month, and I only took a few last month.  Amazingly, nothing has fallen over and died yet.

 

What I described above is my interactive workstation.  I do have a small business server here also, still running Windows 7 (and no plans to "upgrade" to 10).  It's working well enough too with nearly 2 months solid uptime and zero glitches.

 

"If it works, don't fix it"

 

-Noel

Edited by NoelC
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Have you updated your e-Books on 7 and 8 with all the new knowledge you've acquired in the last, say, 6 months? Are you keeping them up-to-date?

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Jaclaz is actually right,

Was there any doubt about it? :dubbio:

;)

:lol:

 

... I've tweaked 8.1 pretty heavily to make it more "serious" and less apt to be chatty online.  Since I have reconfigured/tweaked/augmented EVERY version of Windows to make them better, I don't see what I've done with 8.1 as fundamentally different - though you could argue I've done a little MORE with it. ...

Yep :), the idea was just to underline the amount of "MORE", seriously, I only wanted to avoid the risk that your post could be perceived as "Windows 8.1 is OK" (it is not, only your particular setup or a similar one can be OK).

 

Using my completely twisted measuring method, we could have these equations:

Windows XP + NoelC's tweaks=98

Windows 7+NoelC's tweaks=99

Windows 8.1+NoelC's tweaks=100

Windows 10+NoelC's tweaks=83

 

Now, knowing that:

Windows XP=85

Windows 7=78

Windows 8.1=48

Windows 10=3 ;)

 

It amounts to have NoelC's tweaks ranging from 13 to 80 :w00t:, more in detail:

NoelC's tweaks[XP]=13

NoelC's tweaks[7]=21

NoelC's tweaks[8.1]=52

and, notwithstanding the great effort with:

NoelC's tweaks[10]=80

this last result doesn't really count because the total of 83 is worse than any of the previous ones.... 

 

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz

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