Windows 10 - Deeper Impressions

[Formfiller]

But the flip side of this is that disabling these services for those who don't want to use them should really disable them. And it's not at all clear that Windows 10 is doing that right now.

 

 

Of course W10 isn't doing this - Microsoft hates these customers. This is not an exaggeration.

 

Most of you guys know I spent A LOT of time on Channel9 and other shill-havens and put up quite a fight there, and one thing I've learned dealing with MS reps during the W8 years: They took the public love affair for the iPhone and Google's services really personal.

 

This guy in the link (MS employee) isn't far from the only employee/shill uttering the same thoughts on the various MS forums. Basically the customers are cattle who were blinded by the shiny of Apple and Google, despite their faults (price, privacy, short release cycles) that's why Microsoft should behave even worse than all the other companies combined, because these sheep deserve it anyway and will gobble it up regardless. W8 and W10 were designed with this spite mind. It almost sounds like conspiracy theory, but the shills/employees are quite frank about (another employee) it if you press them a bit.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Formfiller

[NoelC]

I've monitored Win 10 build 10240 for a while now, and with nothing done beyond deconfiguration of the overt options, deinstall of unneeded Metro Apps, and additions to my hosts file I find it DOES send periodic very small (on the order of a few tens of bytes) UDP packets every minute or so.  I don't know if that's some kind of heartbeat or what.

 

I didn't see any big block transfers.  Assuming it isn't uploading my keystroke buffer 30 bytes at a time (which it may well be), I didn't find any evidence that it was uploading mass quantities of my data autonomously to Microsoft.

 

On the other hand, given the TREMENDOUS number of programs that now do things like check for updates to themselves online it's getting to be near impossible to do anything on a system and not have it do a fair bit of network communication.  Just starting certain apps muddied the water when I was testing.

 

What does this prove?  Nothing.  Just remember that Sinofsky was already collecting mass quantities of data even back with Windows 7.  The illusion of safety and privacy has been just that for a while.

 

-Noel

[JorgeA]

Backing up what @alacran and @Formfiller reported upthread about Windows 10 blocking certain hardware and software:

 

Windows 10 could disable pirated games and unauthorized hardware

 

Cries of "FUD!" ring out whenever potential issues and concerns with Windows 10 are pointed out, but there's no denying that the launch of this version of Windows has been more blighted than any other. The latest controversy finds Microsoft updating its EULA so that it is able to block pirated games and unauthorized peripherals.

 

[...]

 

...While it is unlikely that Microsoft would suddenly take objection to the use of a particular keyboard or game controller, the EULA does indicate that the company could potentially block access to anything it decided not to authorize.

 

Many people will object to the idea that Microsoft is able to scan a system to detect the hardware and software that is running, and then use the results of this scan to determine what hardware and software may be used. With so many concerns about privacy being thrown up by Windows 10, this is yet another which is causing rumbles of discontent.

 

--JorgeA

 

[Formfiller]

Sometimes you'll need software updates to keep using the Services. We may automatically check your version of the software and download software updates or configuration changes, including those that prevent you from accessing the Services, playing counterfeit games, or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devices.

 

 

**** them.

 

By the way, Windows 10 kills hundreds of games because it comes without the securedisc driver (in opposite to W7 and 8). The only way to play these is to use a no-CD crack. And exactly this could be flagged as playing "counterfeit games". Basically MS can punish you for something they caused in the first place. And that's just one example how dangerous this EULA is.

 

Just NO, NO, NO. Windows 10 is a no go. The line needs to be drawn! Somewhere it just needs to be drawn! What's next? How about "We will monitor your activities on this computer and automatically contact the police in case we find your behavior suspicious". Why not? Just a few years ago, the W10 EULA and practice would be unthinkable.

 

I am also just sick and tired of the "what can you do about it?" attitude. Microsoft (and Google, Apple for that matter) is just a business. That's all. They are not our gods. They are not an invitable force of nature like weather and the seasons. They are just an ordinary bunch of f***s who happened to shill their asses to the top by exploiting perverted systems like stack ranking.

 

Just staying on a Windows before W10 would be enough force them to reconsider their Orwell-trip. Come on consumers. Come f.. on!

 

It's not like MS wasn't forced to backtrack a lot in the last three years.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Formfiller

[TELVM]

Well, for those actually knowing how Windows works the concept that the Hosts file is bypassed for a number of microsoft related websites is not entirely "news", at least in the past this was used and knowing how the good MS guys like to re-use code it is not really a "surprise" JFYI:

http://reboot.pro/topic/20622-windows-10-enterprise-ltsb-mother-of-all-tweak-scripts/?p=194235

 

jaclaz

 

^ Thanks Jaclaz, the link to this venerable 2006 thread shows that they've been rigging the hosts file behaviour since XP SP2 times at the least.

 

 

A quick exploration of Windows 7's dnsapi.dll yields this:

 

www.msdn.com

msdn.com

www.msn.com

msn.com

go.microsoft.com

msdn.microsoft.com

office.microsoft.com

microsoftupdate.microsoft.com

wustats.microsoft.com

support.microsoft.com

www.microsoft.com

microsoft.com

update.microsoft.com

download.microsoft.com

microsoftupdate.com

windowsupdate.com

windowsupdate.microsoft.com

[Formfiller]

Hardcoding the Windows Update URLs was about preventing malware exploiting the hosts file to kill updates. That was OK given that you had full control over updates.

 

By the way, sorry for the language in the post above.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Formfiller

[JorgeA]

Another view on Microsoft's enforced connection to the mothership:

 

Windows 10 still phones home, even when ordered not to do so

 

I like Windows 10 in many ways, but I’m holding off on upgrading until workarounds are available that will deal with some of these issues. It’s not that I think Microsoft wants to be able to spy on everyone, or that Windows 10 is designed to upload all our secret documents and IM conversations — but I generally expect software to behave the way I want it to, not tell me one thing and do another. Microsoft has spun these kinds of “services” by claiming that they’re required to deliver an optimal Windows 10 experience, but that doesn’t really square with the entire history of the company. It wasn’t mandatory to deliver an optimal Windows 7 or Windows 8 experience, so why is it suddenly important to phone home now, even after the user has chosen options that ostensibly disable such communication?

 

Some people will argue that it doesn’t matter if Microsoft sends some unidentifiable data back to HQ, and as far as actual violations of privacy are concerned, I agree. At the same time, however, options to disable services should be presented in a clear and concise manner, and they should always perform the stated tasks. Microsoft may claim that running Windows 10 offline may result in a “degraded” OS experience, but we’ve seen no indication that’s the case — and therefore no objective reason why the OS should be connecting to online servers when it’s been configured not to do so.

 

These most recent bunches of revelations are making me wonder if the only safe way to use Windows 10 as an everyday, work OS is to revert back to pre-Internet days and keep the Ethernet cable unplugged (and the Wi-Fi turned off).

 

If we are not in fact headed toward a "cloud OS" model, then there should be no problem, right?    We could use whatever current software we need whose latest and greatest features require using Win10, save our file, and sneakernet it to another PC that's connected to the Internet to send out.

 

--JorgeA

Edited August 15, 2015 by JorgeA

[JorgeA]

By the way, sorry for the language in the post above.

 

Not a problem IMHO. It was understandable you talked that way... and, sadly, completely appropriate.

 

--JorgeA

Edited August 15, 2015 by JorgeA

[NoelC]

By the way, sorry for the language in the post above.

 

I for one fully understand how one can get that frustrated.

 

I'm not yet ready to give up on Windows 10, though.  I have stepped off the bandwagon before, for several years at a time (Vista before service packs, and Windows 8.0), and I may well do it again.

 

But it's worth noting those times were for technical reasons - i.e. the OS just didn't do what I needed, and there was no tweak or 3rd party software at the time that would make it do it.

 

This time it's different.  Win 10 actually DOES do all I need at this point, and the tweaks and 3rd party software are already substantially there.  So the question becomes this:  Can additional tweaks be done to mitigate the policy issues?  Can we effectively block virtually all of Microsoft's gathering of our private information, as well as blocking the adware, and still get value out of a Windows 10 setup plugged-in to the Internet?

 

I'm betting, because Microsoft DARE NOT alienate business (from which much of their money comes) that it will be technically possible.  Barely.

 

-Noel

Edited August 15, 2015 by NoelC

[OldSchool38]

Just staying on a Windows before W10 would be enough force them to reconsider their Orwell-trip. Come on consumers. Come f.. on!

That's the course of action I'm taking, I plan on sticking with XP/2000 for now.  BTW, some of you who are programming experts might consider assisting tomaz win2000 sp 5.2 project http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/156521-unofficial-sp-52-for-microsoft-windows-2000/page-32  Windows 2000 is activation free and if it can be remixed to allow use of modern browsers and security tools, it would give us a viable option to resist win10.

[JorgeA]

Microsoft stands accused of deleting Windows 10 Insider feedback it doesn't like

 

We were contacted by a reader who was concerned about the apparent disappearance of feedback about Windows 10. He had noticed that suggestions left via the Windows Feedback app vanished, despite the fact they had received numerous upvotes from other users. It seems that lots of users were concerned that Windows 10 displayed their email address on the lock screen and suggested that Microsoft might want to reconsider. Large numbers of people agreed, and suggestions of this type received hundreds upon hundreds of positive responses.

 

The same goes for requests for a tab bar to be added to File Explorer to make it easier to work with multiple folders at the same time. This is not something that's new with Windows 10 -- people have been begging Microsoft to add this feature for years, and a small industry has sprung up in third party tools that add it. It has been noted that suggestions filed through the Windows Feedback app calling for tabs are sucked into a blackhole, as have calls for a loosening of Microsoft Account integration.

 

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that this is in fact true -- it would still be a disappointment, but it wouldn't be a surprise. What better way to claim that there is broad satisfaction with Windows 10 and no widespread complaints, than to hide/delete the objections?

 

There is a suggestion in the blog post that maybe MSFT removes them because the issues are getting worked on. Doesn't make sense: the time to remove a problem's listing is when it's solved, not when you are (supposedly) working on it. "I took an aspirin, so I don't have to notice my headache anymore."

 

--JorgeA

 

[sparkles]

Well I'm feeling quite happy I caught the Win10 nagware update before it installed (had turned off auto updates)...did a quick google search of the patch # just to be sure, caught this article with the following observation (apologies if it's already been shared somewhere)...

 

What  happens if Microsoft pushes a patch that re-installs itself over and over again? Presumably Windows 10 will check for updates once a day -- maybe more frequently. Do we get re-re-re-patched until somebody at Microsoft realizes they need to pull the plug? Many unanswered questions remain on the road to Windows 10.

[NoelC]

FYI, Microsoft has released, for the savvy, an update hiding tool - which can actually be used to discover pending updates before they're installed.

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930

 

But they absolutely don't want people "managing" their updates.  It leads to mix and match systems that may not be as "secure" as they'd like.

 

Do we get re-re-re-patched until somebody at Microsoft realizes...

 

Realizes?  They're doing this on purpose.

 

Microsoft really doesn't care whether your computing life is (temporarily?) destroyed by one of their updates (which, by the way, also come from 3rd parties, such as display card and other hardware manufacturers). 

 

As far as Microsoft is concerned you're just an alpha tester, whose tasks in life are:

 

A. Play games and send them money through the App Store

 

B. Test out new Windows Updates for the business community.

 

Enterprise/Pro business users, who send Microsoft a LOT of money directly for the privilege of running Windows As a Service can of course drop back off the alpha path and be beta testers by delaying their updates until the negative feedback from all the alpha testers in the public drops below a high roar and Microsoft has had time to correct the most faulty of their patches.

 

I'm aware this viewpoint will be considered "negative".  Those who think so, get over it.  It's reality.

 

-Noel

[NoelC]

By the way, I don't know if many have paid that much attention, but has anyone noticed that the updates coming out for Windows 10 since release have been CUMULATIVE?  There's no granularity.  Just one big update.

 

Let that sink in.

 

Now imagine how that fits into a strategy of managing / hiding offending updates (hint:  it doesn't).

 

-Noel

[jaclaz]

Meanwhile in (or around) Cupertino ....no, I mean Redmond:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10061552

 

Still talking of Office related communication....

 

 

jaclaz