jaclaz Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 Well, the Surface was not "new" as a brand, it was ALREADY a MS product (just for the record) and this senseless re-use of brand has already created at least one misunderstanding: http://www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=9981/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=7/ BTW, the WHOLE "tree" of the product documentation is still on technet: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee692162(v=surface.10).aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee692130(v=surface.10).aspx etc. I believe that this "Surface" was actually the kind of thingy that has been astroturfed/inserted (vainly) in a number of TV shows. The name of the technology is "pixelsense" as what it really is, i.e. "really huge touch screens at very steep prices" did not get the approval of the marketing guys : http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/pixelsense/default.aspx I guess that the number of Samsung SUR40 actually sold are not impressive (notwithstanding the fanfare with which each and every tech expert has been talking of it in 2011/2012). Maybe because the US$ 8,400 price was not exactly "cheap": http://www.theverge.com/products/sur40/3388 jaclaz
TELVM Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 ... Microsoft is set to replace Win32 applications with Modern UI alternatives in Windows 9, meaning Windows is set to get a full on Modern UI facelift when it rolls around next year ... ^ This on the other hand sounds exactly as brilliant an idea as I have grew accustomed to expect from MS lately.
jaclaz Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 Let me see if I can understand the theory of the good neowin guys Microsoft is hiring in June/July 2014 a developer to make radical changes to *something* that is planned to be released to the masses in Spring (maybe Summer) 2015? And this when their development cycle is usually counted in years? (normally 3 to 5) Whatever they smoked or drinked at neowin, it must be good stuff. jaclaz
Formfiller Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 So much for the metrotard vision:http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-threshold-the-modern-ui-takes-a-backseat-for-desktop-usersWhile it is still a little unclear if the Threshold update for PCs will be called Windows 9 or something else, what is starting to become known is how that OS will deviate from Microsoft's [metro] past. For mouse and keyboard users, Threshold will be the update many have been waiting for as Microsoft continues to move away form the Sinofsky vision of hybrid OS.Threshold will be a further move away from the Modern UI environment for desktop users. In some builds of Threshold, the Modern UI is disabled by default. You have to manually turn it back on but this is situation dependent, if you wish to access the live tile environment.If you are on a tablet, the Modern UI is still present and takes precedence over the classic desktop but on traditional PCs, the Modern UI is no longer utilized by default. This is where some of the confusion comes in that we had been hearing about a 'decentralized' use of the Modern UI but this is device-specific; for tablet and hybrid device users, the touch-focused UI is still a focal point. The biggest changes are in store for users of desktop-class systems....We have also been hearing that the UI is 'visually distinct' too, meaning that when you see Threshold, it's easy to tell that it is not Windows 8.1.http://www.zdnet.com/windows-threshold-more-on-microsofts-plan-to-win-over-windows-7-users-7000031070/Users running Threshold on a desktop/laptop will get a SKU, or version, that puts the Windows Desktop (for running Win32/legacy apps) front and center.The Desktop/laptop SKU of Threshold will include, as previously rumored, the Mini-Start menu — a new version of the traditional Microsoft Start menu, an early concept of which Microsoft showed off at the company's Build developers conference in April. It also will include the ability to run Metro-Style/Windows Store apps in windows on the Desktop. Will it turn off completely the Metro-Style Start screen with its live-tile interface, as Neowin is reporting, and make the tiled Start Menu a toggleable option from the Mini Start menu? I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised....Microsoft is basically "done" with Windows 8.x. Regardless of how usable or functional it is or isn't, it has become Microsoft's Vista 2.0 -- something from which Microsoft needs to distance itself, perception-wise. At this point, Microsoft is going full steam-ahead toward Threshold and will do its best to differentiate that OS release from Windows 8.Looks like metro is gonzo. On the tablet front, it looks as if they will remove the desktop there completely. Not a big deal honestly, since it's an inadequate form factor for the desktop anyway. I can't believe it: Finally some sanity from Microsoft?! Have they cleared the water in Redmond?
NoelC Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Just goes to show you can only be so rich and stupid at the same time. The demise of Metro/Modern sounds like happy news, but there's a LOT of wishful thinking out there. How can they return the desktop landscape back to the level of integration it had when people followed a standard more or less? Microsoft's own applications basically break all that by having non-standard UIs. Copy/Paste, Drag/Drop, common controls... These may be "legacy" but are all actually the right idea. -Noel
jaclaz Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) These may be "legacy" but are all actually the right idea.Just in case (as an useful reference):http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/legacy-is-not-a-pejorative.html Specifically:http://www.langston.com/Fun_People/2000/2000AHG.html jaclaz Edited July 1, 2014 by jaclaz
NoelC Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 No, that's exactly how I want it written. Note the quotes. I'm emphasizing that "legacy" is a label arbitrarily conjured up by Microsoft Marketing to further their nefarious goals of trying to make their new stuff fashionable and the next generation of computing, even though it isn't better than what went into Windows 1.0. Nobody in the world outside the evil empire thinks desktop (e.g., Win32) programming is outdated and should be given a "legacy" label. -Noel
jaclaz Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 No, that's exactly how I want it written. Note the quotes. I'm emphasizing that "legacy" is a label arbitrarily conjured up by Microsoft Marketing to further their nefarious goals of trying to make their new stuff fashionable and the next generation of computing, even though it isn't better than what went into Windows 1.0. Sure , I just wanted to provide you (in case of need) with handy references to "previous art" confirming how your attribution to the Dark Side is/was entirely correct. : The last reference proves how this evil marketing trick was used as far back as at least in year 2000, i.e. 14 years ago, so the nefarious label is not a new idea of the MS marketing folks, but it is in itself outdated or using their own term "legacy" (this time meaning not that "it works"). jaclaz
NoelC Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 No, I certainly don't suspect Microsoft of inventing new kinds of marketing. Just using what they have, between toga parties, in the worst possible ways. I'm glad the world is responding to their "Emperor's New Clothes" scheme in a rational manner. The sheeple aren't quite as dumb as Microsoft Marketing hopes. I'll bet someone somewhere must have said something like "if we bet on public stupidity we can't lose". If I were running Microsoft right about now I'd probably ask every employee for a short essay on their thoughts about Metro/Modern. Anyone positive or even wishy washy about it - i.e., not blasting it and anyone who supports it as the evil that could bring Microsoft down - would be laid off. They are clearly evil or at best dupes. It's been a growing cancer for a while. Remember the "Windows 7 was my idea, right in the back of a taxi" commercials? -Noel
jaclaz Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 It's been a growing cancer for a while. Remember the "Windows 7 was my idea, right in the back of a taxi" commercials?To be picky (as I actually am), we were told that telemetry results were used to "reshape" the UI (and to change the way we should interact with the stupid OS), and thus we quickly came to the conclusion that the blame was to be put on the mentioned clueless neighbour or on some other more or less demented "average Joe". But what actual data did the telemetry provide? Would it not be a more logical explanation that they did what they already had in their (perverted) minds since day one, and used the telemetry results as an excuse to justify the (foolish) decisions and putting the blame on the collecticity? A new version of "Officer, the Devil made me do it..." jaclaz
NoelC Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) Doesn't really matter. Either way you look at it - giving them the benefit of the doubt or not - the wrong direction was taken. I suppose you could make the point that "stupid" is better than "evil". A Marketing guy was in charge, after the Engineer excused himself to go chase mosquitos (more power to ya, Bill), so Marketing drove the bus. Engineers take everything into account. Marketeers don' listen to nobody. -Noel Edited July 1, 2014 by NoelC
jaclaz Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Actually I was trying to say that possibly the "average Joe" is less stupid than what appears from the mentioned post, i.e. that telemetry data either did not provide anything useful, or never actually existed or were faked/changed/modified to have the (stupid) decisions appear as a form of democratic vote and not coming from the (perverted) minds of the MS management. When the stupid UI was in development, how many PC's providing telemetry had touchscreens? How was the data coming from a vast majority of users with a keyboard and mouse "transformed" into "swipe this" or "swipe that"? How an interface that has pretty much separate searching "areas" (i.e. local PC vs. Local Network vs. "the Internet" thorugh any browser+search engine) can have provided data supporting the "generic" search everywhere or "Smart Search") of Windows 8 (now a bit changed in 8.1)? Look at how Paul Thurrott (which is already in backtracking mode, however) is drooling with satisfaction at the results of a search for Paris:http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/windows-81-tip-configure-smart-search jaclaz
NoelC Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Actually I was trying to say that possibly the "average Joe" is less stupid than what appears from the mentioned post, I wish I could support that point of view, but I've dealt with enough cluttered, corrupted, hosed systems to think that someone not putting in a modicum of effort to keep their system tidy will end up with a mess in fairly short order. Note this whole "Refresh / Reset your PC" think Microsoft has come out with. I've even met folks who are convinced it's utterly impossible to run a Windows installation long-term and still others who say they reinstall every month on the general principle that it's going to be necessary anyway. And these are halfway tech-savvy people! No, I really believe the telemetry really shows a vast majority of people bungling around with their barely functional systems, doing a few things over and over that they've figured out. With a straight face Microsoft told me they eliminated the UI for Windows Backup because only 6% of folks even touched it, even with the reminders in Windows 7 that would pop up after a time. Rather than increase awareness and education, they decided that too few people used it, so why bother. Ridiculous! -Noel
NoelC Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) As an example: How many folks outside of seasoned software professionals and computing enthusiasts would (could possibly) know they could disable a majority of the things in their Run keys and still not lose functionality they need? Windows doesn't inherently "slow down", but unmanaged users' configurations do! -Noel Edited July 1, 2014 by NoelC
TELVM Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 ... I can't believe it: Finally some sanity from Microsoft? ...Same here. Just will not believe it until I can watch and touch mouse it. ... you can only be so rich and stupid at the same time ... ... Copy/Paste, Drag/Drop, common controls... These may be "legacy" but are all actually the right idea ... ... "legacy" is a label arbitrarily conjured up by Microsoft Marketing to further their nefarious goals of trying to make their new stuff fashionable and the next generation of computing, even though it isn't better than what went into Windows 1.0. Nobody in the world outside the evil empire thinks desktop (e.g., Win32) programming is outdated and should be given a "legacy" label ... ... I'm glad the world is responding to their "Emperor's New Clothes" scheme in a rational manner. The sheeple aren't quite as dumb as Microsoft Marketing hopes ...... A Marketing guy was in charge, after the Engineer excused himself to go chase mosquitos (more power to ya, Bill), so Marketing drove the bus. Engineers take everything into account. Marketeers don' listen to nobody ...^ Homeric , and wholly agreed.
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