Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

[Formfiller]

New Channel9 candy:

 

http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/Satya-speaking/dd0d43037c6b4bb5b60ba36b013971d6

 

Some reformed, others are trying to be the last mohicans.

 

By the way, what happened to Dotmatrix on Neowin? I completely lost the track there. Is he still active?

Edited July 17, 2014 by Formfiller

[JorgeA]

Most software can be reconfigured to update only when the user initiates or allows it.  The only thing I allow to be updated in real time automatically on my system is my antivirus definitions, and so far that hasn't bitten me. 

 

[...]

 

Let me know if you'd like more detail on how to accomplish setting for manual updates only with Windows or specific application software.  If I've done it I'm happy to share the technique (it's also in my books).  Might be good to start a separate topic on this, now I think about it...

 

-Noel

 

Thank you very much for the kind offer.

 

However , I think that the way I wrote my post may have given the wrong impression.     The thread that I linked to has nothing to do with me, it's not my situation. I was only using it as an example (maybe a poor one) of the sort of thing that can happen to folks who use Web- or cloud-based software instead of applications that reside on their own computers.

 

Let's say that somebody's using, say, Office 365 or one of the new cloud-based Adobe applications. Microsoft or Adobe decides in their infinite wisdom to remove a certain functionality that had been there all along and which some people relied on. Now it's gone. Given that one is using this cloud software, was (is) there any way to prevent the loss of that functionality?

 

My gut says that there isn't, considering that the software now resides on a server controlled by somebody else rather than on my PC where I can decide whether to "upgrade" the program or install updates. Basically, with respect to that particular application, my PC is little more than a terminal.

 

That's the general issue that I was (maybe inadequately) trying to highlight. The specific examples (Office 365, Adobe programs) may not yet fit this description, but you get the idea.

 

Or maybe the situation with cloud-based software isn't anywhere (yet) quite as dire as I suspect it is?

 

--JorgeA

[NoelC]

There usually is a way to prevent an auto-update, and it never hurts to research things before allowing an update.  Nothing says you have to accept an update on the first day it was released.  Conservatism says you should wait, and listen online for buzz about how well it works.

 

As an example, there's a lot of feedback on the Adobe forums about how Photoshop CC 2014 removes some things (like the Oil Paint filter and flash-based extension panels) that were in the predecessor Photoshop CC version.  Some people just remove the prior version first, then find out later.  But savvy folks visit the forum and ask, "is there a good reason not to remove the old version?", to which the answer is often "It's up to you, but you may want to keep it around a while to ensure you don't need the things that were removed".

 

I've already started a thread on this if you'd like to discuss it further...

 

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/172283-strategies-to-manage-software-updates-auto-manual

 

-Noel

[JorgeA]

Apropos of the post upthread about Microsoft's failure to gain traction in the mobile devices market:

 

Lenovo ends sales of small Windows tablets in US due to lack of interest

 

Lenovo has confirmed that it will stop selling small Windows tablets in the United States, a result of lukewarm market interest in the devices. The company offered two 8-inch devices in the US - the Miix 2 and the premium ThinkPad 8 - and sales of both have been halted with immediate effect.

 

--JorgeA

 

[JorgeA]

New Channel9 candy:

 

http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/Satya-speaking/dd0d43037c6b4bb5b60ba36b013971d6

 

Some reformed, others are trying to be the last mohicans.

 

By the way, what happened to Dotmatrix on Neowin? I completely lost the track there. Is he still active?

 

Good to know that some Metro/Win8 advocates have been capable of seeing the light.

 

As for the rest, I'm reminded of those Japanese soldiers who hid out in caves and kept on fighting for 25 years after the end of World War II...

 

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Aaaarrggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Literally minutes after posting above about the Lenovo story, I see this:

 

Lenovo: Pretend we never said anything about 8in tablets

 

Earlier this week, Lenovo said that, due to demand, they would stop selling 8in tablets in the US and have diverted supplies of existing devices to other markets. Well, the company is now back-tracking on that statement and wants you to pretend like it never even happened.

 

In a statement posted on Lenovo's site, they said that they will continue to sell 8in tablets in the US and that they have new products coming for the holiday shopping season...

 

As a couple of commenters speculate, maybe Microsoft had a chat with the Lenovo folks. In any event, whatever the facts may be, it's clear that they wouldn't be diverting their U.S. stock of Windows tablets to other countries if U.S. sales were hot.

 

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Windows 9 (Threshold) to include new taskbar, improved UI and much more

 

Windows Threshold: A distinctive new look and a home for Cortana

 

What we have reported so far is that the Start screen will be moved to the background for desktop users. While it is not completely going away, it will be turned off by default for desktop users. Tablet and touch enabled devices will have access to the Modern UI by default and small tablets likely won’t have access to the desktop at all once Gemini ships.

... Threshold is getting a distinctive UI refresh; when you see it, there is no confusing it with Windows 7 or 8. The desktop on Windows 8, to the casual eye, looks nearly identical to that of Windows 7 but not so with Threshold. Our sources tell us that the UI looks much more modern and of course, a bit more flat too.

 

How is it more distinctive? The taskbar is getting improved functionality. No more is it a static location for icons, as we have been told that icons on the task bar are interactive, one person described them as ‘mini Live Tiles’. We don’t know what functionality they will all include, yet, but know that Microsoft is toying with glance-and-go style functionality for the taskbar too. Remember, Nadella is all about productivity and Microsoft wants to make minimized windows able to provide valuable information.

 

It makes sense too; if you have several apps open and you want to know what is going on inside that application, you have to open it up. What if you could get a flavor of that action in your taskbar without having to click anything? We know that this functionality is present, in limited capacity, with Windows 8 by hovering over an open app on the taskbar but look for further enhancements in this area.

 

So it's a mixed bag, so far. We're finally getting UI choice based on the kind of machine we're using.  On the other hand, we are getting more of that modern Windows 2.0 flatness  and it's not clear what this "glance-and-go" idea offers  that's not already provided by Taskbar preview (you hover over it, get a thumbnail view, and can click on it to go to that window).

 

@Formfiller: BTW, Dot Matrix is alive and well in the comments thread there, and as unreformed as ever.

 

--JorgeA

 

[NoelC]

If there's one thing we've learned in recent history, it's to wait and actually see how it works vs. listening to what they say.

 

Another thing is that the "Public Preview" isn't a preview of how it's going to work, but some kind of Marketing tool to try to ease the shock of migrating in the direction Microsoft wants us to go.  So even when we see how the preview works it's not that meaningful.

 

A good example is the way they phased out Aero Glass in the Windows 8 previews.  It was less and less glassy/stylish with each new release.  Pardon the pun, but it was easy to "see through" that plot, though a lot of people WERE fooled, and some even today think everything's flat because of all the extra compute time Microsoft claims to have saved (which is a misnomer).

 

• Don't believe what you hear.
• Start to form opinions on what you see in previews.
• Get to know what's released.
• Judge based on what the world of 3rd party developers turn it into a year after release, and only THEN decide whether to use it.

 

-Noel

[jaclaz]

Aaaarrggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Literally minutes after posting above about the Lenovo story, I see this:

 

Lenovo: Pretend we never said anything about 8in tablets

 

 

Usually when something smell fishy, it is fishy:

 

Lenovo does clarify the previous statements by saying that they are no longer selling the ThinkPad 8 in the US but they have sold out of Miix 8 inch tablets which shows that there is demand for these products. And as such, the company does not have any plans to abandon the 8in market segment.

 

 

Let me think.

 

Quick test:

You have a kick a** device that sells like hotcakes, what is is your business plan:

1) continue making and selling heaps of these devices, which will be built at a lower cost and with a better return from development costs

2) continue making and selling heaps of these devices, which will be built at a lower cost and with a better return from development costs. while making yourself ready to deliver an enhanced version, fixing the issues found with it, bettering it and replacing the earlier model without solution of continuity

3) stop producing and selling it, and create a new device in the exact same market slice, that will be on the market after a gap of (say) 6 months

 

Give yourself:

+10 points if you answered #1

+100 points if you answered #2

-23875 points if you answered #3

 

jaclaz

[NoelC]

-23875 points if you answered #3

 

It's eerie but that's exactly the number of points I'd have chosen.  I thought of that number before I read the 3rd line.

 

-Noel

[JorgeA]

If there's one thing we've learned in recent history, it's to wait and actually see how it works vs. listening to what they say.

 

Another thing is that the "Public Preview" isn't a preview of how it's going to work, but some kind of Marketing tool to try to ease the shock of migrating in the direction Microsoft wants us to go.  So even when we see how the preview works it's not that meaningful.

 

A good example is the way they phased out Aero Glass in the Windows 8 previews.  It was less and less glassy/stylish with each new release.  Pardon the pun, but it was easy to "see through" that plot, though a lot of people WERE fooled, and some even today think everything's flat because of all the extra compute time Microsoft claims to have saved (which is a misnomer).

 

• Don't believe what you hear.
• Start to form opinions on what you see in previews.
• Get to know what's released.
• Judge based on what the world of 3rd party developers turn it into a year after release, and only THEN decide whether to use it.

 

-Noel

 

 

Good points all, borne out by our experience with Windows 8. We will only be certain of what Microsoft intends for us when the RTM is ready. But it's still fun to gossip and speculate.

 

I have the three Win8 previews installed on one computer (also with Windows 7), and every once in a while I'll go in and boot into each of the previews in order just to see how things changed from one to the next. The progressive uglification of the Desktop comes out clearly. The sad things is, if they'd left the windows as they are in the Developer Preview, then IIRC with a replacement Start Menu and Start Screen bypass things would have been more or less OK -- the major visual change being rectangular instead of rounded window corners.

 

--JorgeA

[NoelC]

They clearly thought that they could manipulate change into being - controlling what's fashionable on a desktop as it were - much more quickly by feeding people intermediate versions that gradually took the edge off, well, the edges.

 

And yes, it's fun to gossip and speculate. 

 

-Noel

[JorgeA]

Is this yet another thing that Microsoft removed (screwed up) in Windows 8.x?

 

However, it seems likely that wireless networking and Windows 8/8.1 is going to be a noticable support headache for companies/schools/organisations who either (1) get computers with Windows 8/8.1 or (2) have people coming from outside with such computers.

Why?
Well, I'm thinking of how Enterprise networks often run 802.1X authentication where you have to supply information about what certificates are to be used, which server to authenticate with and so on. They may also have password policies that mean you will have to update the login info on occasion.
Windows XP/Vista/7 had a fairly nice GUI option where you could see/edit/remove all existing wireless network profiles with a few clicks, so IT departments like mine could make a small (1-2 folded A4 papers) graphical guide for users to handle the configuration themselves. Worked pretty well in the majority of cases.

Fun fact (not really): Windows 8 completely removed the GUI option to manage wireless networks from the Network and Sharing Center. Some limited things could be done from the network list on the right edge of the screen instead in Win 8, but that was all removed in Win 8.1.

Unless you have a 3rd party tool to manage wireless profiles, it's command line time for just about everything except creating the initial network profile (assuming you get every single detail right the first time).
This is not exactly something that users feel comfortable with even if they get a guide, so we have to manually assist most Win 8 users with any changes to their wireless connection. That is already getting time consuming at my workplace (a university), even though Win 8/8.1 only shows up on a portion of visitor and student computers at this point. If the staff computers were "updated", it would be a mess!

 

Comments? Responses? Inquiring minds want to know...

 

--JorgeA

 

 

[MagicAndre1981]

yes, managing networks in horrible in Windows 8.

[jaclaz]

Since this thread has been kept OT (On Topic) since quite a few posts, I can try fixing it by posting a link to an article about our down-under friends :
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/asio-spy-chief-defends-surveillence-network
 
 

The Greens senator Scott Ludlam asked whether widespread community concern about continually expanding surveillance powers was driving more people towards encryption, in a form of “arms race”.

Irvine replied: “It’s certainly driving a lot of what I’ll call my customers into encryption because they’ve got very obvious reasons to hide what they do.”

Asked to define customers, Irvine said: “The persons who are subjects of interest, if I put it formally, from a national security point of view.

“We are not the United States,” Irvine said. “We have in my view a very adequate surveillance regime which strikes an excellent balance between the privacy of the individual on the one hand and the needs of national security on the other.

“In my view, the needs of national security and law enforcement are crucial and the public should not be concerned that there’s going to be gross misuse in terms of invasions of their privacy by law enforcement and the security intelligence organisation.

(bolding is mine )

 

jaclaz