Does frequent formatting/defrag spoil HDD?

[leon]

I mean some sectors may be not bad, but just not good magnetized and then if you format them they will be O.K.

But there is also some software wich can restore bad sectors.It does not hide them, it really try to restore them.

It's name is "HDD Regenerator"

[GrofLuigi]

You're worried about defrag when prefetch/wmi polling/dhcp/registry read-writes are pounding your HDD thousand times per second - all the time?

GL

[jaclaz]

I mean some sectors may be not bad, but just not good magnetized and then if you format them they will be O.K.

But there is also some software wich can restore bad sectors.It does not hide them, it really try to restore them.

It's name is "HDD Regenerator"

Just to avoid any possible misunderstanding.

A FORMAT (either "quick" or "full") won't even touch, say, 99% of sectors.

A FORMAT ONLY writes to a very small number of sectors: the MBR and the very few sectors holding filesystem data, such as bootsectors, FAT's and NTFS MFT and similar ones.

jaclaz

[leon]

I don't think so, you mean quick format.I'm talking you about full format.It is similar to a floppy disks.Some disks become unreadable with time, but if you full format them, they are good again.Exactly this can happen also to a HDD because it works similar.

Edited June 21, 2009 by leon

[jaclaz]

I don't think so, you mean quick format.I'm talking you about full format.It is similar to a floppy disks.Some disks become unreadable with time, but if you full format them, they are good again.Exactly this can happen also to a HDD because it works similar.

Rest assured, a "Full Format" does NOT touch most sectors.

Let's put it this way.

Try formatting a partition, selecting "Full".

How long does it take?

Now use a pretty much low level app, like dsfo/dsfi, or any disk WIPING utility to write 00's to ALL sectors of the same partition once (single pass).

How long does it take?

Or, if you BOTH do not trust my word for it AND you don't want to test it yourself, let's use some math.

Get any HD test app, like HDtune or HDtach, and measure your specific hard disk average write speed.

The calculate how much time with that speed would take to write all the sectors in a given partition.

When you have the need to format that partition, time how much it takes, and compare with the above calculated time.

Is the time similar?

Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_formatting

Please take note of the fundamental differences between a floppy formatting (which is at the same time a low-level and a HIGH-LEVEL type of formatting) and a HD formatting (which is EXCLUSIVELY a HIGH-LEVEL type of formatting, since several years).

jaclaz

[submix8c]

jaclaz is correct. and so are the comments about repeated disk i/o's "beating up" the head mechanics. think about a car that is usually going forward and then you begin constantly shifting forward/reverse, beating up the drive train...

[leon]

High-level formatting

High-level formatting is the process of setting up an empty file system on the disk, and installing a boot sector. This alone takes little time, and is sometimes referred to as a "quick format".

In addition, the entire disk may optionally be scanned for defects, which takes considerably longer, up to several hours on larger hard disks.

You see that Full Format scans the disk for defective sectors.So if you do not full format it you never know if you have some defect sectors.

Edited June 21, 2009 by leon

[Ponch]

Or, if you BOTH do not trust my word

... You talking to me ?

I do believe you. Actually I've asked that ages ago (in an other life) but never got a relevant answer but this (MS) one.

I must admit it still lets me wondering... where is all that "formatting" time going ?

[submix8c]

I think the "in another life" link answers your questions.

1 - quick-format - clearing partition table - data still exists

2 - full format - in addition, scans the HDD

3 - manufacturer utilities - "low level" format ("write zeros") according to HDD layout.

Only 3-above completely erases.

Moot points all, since the OP basically questioned the "wearing out" of the mechanics of the HDD. As for the "magnetic" side of the issue, think of a cassette tape's life spane and what will go wrong (in addition to the mechanics). Same concept...

[Ponch]

Just to avoid any possible misunderstanding.

A FORMAT (either "quick" or "full") won't even touch, say, 99% of sectors.

jaclaz is correct

...

- full format - in addition, scans the HDD

If somebody is going to say something, please be clear. To me, "won't even touch" means "no read/no write". So either it scans or it doesn't.

[minotaur]

If you perform a full format then the write head magnetize all the data bits on the platters.So if they where not properly magnetized it can restore them.

This means that it's good idea to perform a full format especially on a new or old drive.

I don't think that is true. If any program claims to be able to 'refresh' the 'grains' (collection of magnetic domains) of the magnetic thin film coating of the platter, then it's a false claim. The magnetization of the grain (corresponding to the 'bit') is a materials property and the fields strengths required for that are carefully calibrated by the drive manufacturer and precisely applied by the read/write head. No software can change this, to the best of my knowledge.

As for defrag, once the files are defragged, then there is no 'too much defrag' since there is nothing to defrag, so there is no wear & tear on the drive. A defragmented file will not fragment unless it's modified and cannot expand contiguously.

I too use Diskeeper 2009 auto defrag, and it doesn't defrag every single time the system is idle, only if it's necessary i.e. usually for a few minutes a day. Hardly any stress on the drive, and it reduces the number of seeks for reading the same file (compared to the fragmented state). Ofcourse, I have added temporary file directories such as my Opera browser cache to the file exclusion list since there is no point defragging those; so Diskeeper ignores those.

Remember, the drive is always working as soon as the system is turned on. The platters are always spinning, and something is always going on in the background...indexing, superfetch, pagefile, log files etc etc., yet drives don't die because of this. Drives die either due to construction/QC problems (early failure) or due to poor environmental conditions like dust, heat, vibration, shock etc. So ensure that the drive is running cool and stable, to get some decent life out of it.

[jaclaz]

Or, if you BOTH do not trust my word

... You talking to me ?

I do believe you. Actually I've asked that ages ago (in an other life) but never got a relevant answer but this (MS) one.

I must admit it still lets me wondering... where is all that "formatting" time going ?

Is this one of your "picky on grammar" days?

Let me reword this:

Or, if you BOTH do not trust my word for it AND you don't want to test it yourself, let's use some math.

as:

IF BOTH following conditions:

• you do not trust my word for it
  
• you don't want to test it yourself
  

are fulfilled (Binary 1 or TRUE)

THEN

let's try with something else...

No reference whatsoever to Ponch or any other member if not to leon, to whom the post was addressed.

And let me rephrase this:

A FORMAT (either "quick" or "full") won't even touch, say, 99% of sectors.

A FORMAT ONLY writes to a very small number of sectors: the MBR and the very few sectors holding filesystem data, such as bootsectors, FAT's and NTFS MFT and similar ones.

as:

A FORMAT (either "quick" or "full") won't even touch, say, 99% of sectors.

A FORMAT ONLY writes to a very small number of sectors: the MBR and the very few sectors holding filesystem data, such as bootsectors, FAT's and NTFS MFT and similar ones.

A "FULL" FORMAT will additionally READ each and every sector on the hard disk and "mark as bad" any sector it cannot READ properly (by writing the addresses of these bad sectors on the SAME filesystem area to which it writes anyway).

The number of bad sectors that a drive may develop while still being operative is a very small fraction of the overall number of the total, thus even in case of a relatively high number of defective sectors marked as bad during the scan, the totally speculative percentage given above (99%) won't change significantly.

Should it change significantly, the reason would be that the drive is developing vast areas of errors, that are usually a symptom of a dying hard drive.

The not fully technical , and as an afterthought, judging how it was used for nitpicking , rather unfortunate , choice of words as "won't even touch" was used to convey the impression that no changes were made to sectors, i.e. READing, but NOT WRITEing, just like you would need NOT to touch a sign in order to simply read it.

jaclaz