NoelC

Good points, ralcool! When I felt the stirrings of "incurable geek cravings" to upgrade, I looked around for a new Win 8.1-compatible theme and reworked it slightly with some updated caption buttons and border shading, and voila, I'm loving Win 8.1 all the more, with all those things you mentioned are missing in the Win 10 experience. There's a LOT to be said for just liking the way something works (and conversely, no matter how many marketing people tell you how you should think, the deck's just stacked against you enjoying life if you just dislike the way something works). -Noel

But not with your old, released software for Win 8.1. Just making sure you know. -Noel

Warms my heart to see Win 7 still pretty stable up there. What is deterring people? It's a free upgrade after all... Oh, that's right, it's not actually better in any noticeable way. And people aren't as stupid or herdable as Microsoft would like. Yep, you've made my day with those stats. I had nightmares of tens of millions of gullible people just throwing the switch because they don't know... -Noel

Absolutely correct. "Left of primary" is what I meant to say. Thanks for the correction. -Noel

Screens left of center use negative numbers for pixel positions... Hm..... Big Muscle, check your variable types and make sure you didn't make any assumptions about screen coordinates being positive... -Noel

There are going to be people all across the spectrum. It all has to do with what you need from your OS, what you run it on, and let's be honest - what you like. There are folks who just want to surf the net and play games, and for them it feels as though Microsoft is doing the right things. But there are others who, from their vantage points, don't see any merit in anything added to Windows since Windows 7 or maybe even earlier versions. There are still others who are very critical of specific bad things that have been done, and yet remain hopeful that there may be a way to reconfigure and augment the latest Windows so that it's tolerable to use and may be able to give value for however long it takes until the next truly great leap in technology occurs. I am in this camp. Face it, Windows 10 is here. It is what it is. All we can do is try to be tolerant of one another, keep an open mind, and resist polarization leading to conflict. It takes all kinds to make the world a rich and lively place. To speak to the specific subject of this thread... Though IMO the current Metro/Modern environment leaves a LOT to be desired, wouldn't you say that a new, easy-to-program paradigm with an infrastructure to support it could be a Good Thing - IF it was actually done with technical excellence? With all due respect, not everyone is equipped with the training / experience to see that it simply isn't implemented very well as it stands. -Noel

It may be - for the first time in history - that it is technically impossible to run Windows that way. That's a scary proposition, I know. That being said, I'm developing just exactly that kind of configuration myself... Local account, UAC off, as much Metrotard garbage disabled/removed as possible, telemetry disabled... Even a possibly viable way to manage updates. So far, I've found that what's left can still be used as a viable desktop-only, no frills OS. But it's VERY clear Microsoft has no intention of supporting this kind of usage! At the moment I can't think of any "can't get there from here" situations. The dots I can't quite seem to connect are that Microsoft makes the lion's share of its money from business use of the OS - so why are they turning it into a toy that's focused on anything BUT serious use? Maybe they figure they have a year or three to tidy up the Enterprise edition to be serious again, since most big business is just now getting in a groove with Windows 7. That's a comforting thought, because it says that they'll probably HAVE to pay attention to all the things they've screwed up soon. Not to get too optimistic, though... They've promised continuous changes to the OS. What does that mean to you and me? I think it means that we don't really know how long ANY part of the OS is going to continue to work the way it does now. So even if I or someone else can come up with a configuration that eschews all this cloud and toy BS, there's no guarantee that configuration will continue to be viable even next month. When are they planning to walk away from compatibility with applications I can't see this as a business model that will do anything but fail, unfortunately. -Noel

Now is the time for people to try things and report back. I honestly don't know about the WMIC command. I suspect it will work. -Noel

I've done my own fairly extensive testing. IF you eliminate the "Hybrid/Fast Bootup" abomination, Win 10 does not boot any quicker (comparing a properly functioning modern system running a fresh install of Windows 7 to a fresh install of Windows 10). I see numbers like 12 seconds for both. Microsoft seems to want to take credit for computers (and especially SSD-based storage) getting phenomenally faster in recent years. The file system appears to be a touch faster than 8.1, but a good bit slower than 8.0 and 7. Something you can try for yourself on each system. I've found this to be a fairly good indication how responsive a system will be / feel: 1. Open File Explorer and navigate to the root of C: 2. Select all files/folders in the Files Pane. 3. Right click, choose Properties, and time how long it takes to count up all the files. 4. Once it's done, divide the number of files by the number of seconds. 5. Do it again to see how long it takes using cached data. I've seen numbers on Win 7 systems as high as 40,000 to 50,000 files per second enumerated. I'll bet you can't find someone with a Win 10 system that goes beyond 20,000. On a Win 8.1 system you're lucky to see 10,000. Next time you try to search for a file, or maybe have to read a highly fragmented file, this will matter. Note especially the time to do the job using data already cached in RAM. THIS is one of the best indications of how efficiently programmed the system really is under the covers. -Noel

Thanks, it's on my long list of things to look into. -Noel

Ah, I could fake multiple monitors in Win8.x just by setting the number in virtual machine settings. This does not work in Win10. According to your debug.log, it seems that only first 2560px is detected and thus smaller glass safety zones used. It results in glitches on anything beyond 2560px. Also, I'm afraid that making FrameMargin won't be possible. It is much more difficult to implement on 32-bit so I thought I could add it as x64-only feature, but it seems that setting any margin completely breaks AeroSnap feature. Looks like there are 3 glass safety zones allocated, each the width of my 3 monitors (2560 x 1600 is the center one, the ones on the sides are 1200 x 1600 as they are turned up sideways). Since it's a desktop that spans 3 monitors, are you saying it should be allocating a glass safety zone of 4960 pixels width (i.e., 1200 + 2560 + 1200)? Seems like all you'll have to do is add up the dimensions, then. Regarding FrameMargin, that's a shame, though I understand completely. I've been looking over generated code lately in the process of optimizing my own products. And it changes. I've seen differences in VS 2015, for example, as compared to VS 2013. I wonder what version of Visual Studio Microsoft compiles Windows with. As one who never, ever uses any snap feature I'd still love to have "experimental" FrameMargin support, but I'll understand if you feel it's unsupportable. Sooner or later a full theme implementation will come along that's well-polished, and probably that will restore borders more thoroughly. -Noel

By the way, if you can't get a multi-monitor simulation going, I'll be more than happy to run a specially instrumented build for you. Whatever you need. -Noel

You mean that MARKETING people at MICROSOFT might actually LIE? The horror! -Noel

What I found works is to first boot the guest VM into windowed mode, then choose the full-screen button at the top: Then once the VM is in full-screen mode, I choose the all monitors layout: It goes black for maybe 10 or 15 seconds, then finally works. I'm on VMware workstation 11.1.2 build-2780323. There was a time, around build 10074 I think, where it failed the 3 monitor layout switch, but then it started working in the 10100s somewhere as I recall. You probably actually have to have 3 monitors to do the above. I haven't tried simulating it. -Noel

What about it is not working? All of it. The FrameMargin registry setting doesn't do anything in the current test version of Aero Glass. My theme atlas adds a couple of pixels to the drop shadow resources to create the appearance of a light edge and slightly rounded corners, but there's no additional border thickness like there was in the prior (outdated) test build of Aero Glass. You can see what I see in the screen grab I posted above. Not something I can't live with, but IMO a couple of pixels more would look better and be easier to use. This is what I've been trying: Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00 [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\DWM] "FrameMargin"=dword:00000002 -Noel

Yeah, provide your debug.log. But I see it as difficult to catch because it seems that multiple monitors virtualization does not work in Win10 with VMWare. In Win8, I can simulate any number of monitors but it displays error message "Cannot save displays settings" in Win10. Hm, I just tried making Win 10 full screen in VMware then choosing a view that puts it across all 3 monitors here, and it does work across the 3 monitors for me. Kind of slow - really slow actually - in making the transition, but after 15 seconds or so the "device recognized" sound plays and all 3 monitors are controlled by Win 10. I can reproduce the issue also I think... If I hover my mouse over controls just below the title bar on my left monitor (Windows thinks that's monitor number 2 in my case) I can cause some minor visual glitches in the title bars. To be honest they're so subtle I wouldn't have noticed them. I don't seem to be able to make it happen on the central monitor or right monitor, just the left one. Here's the whole screen grab: http://Noel.ProDigitalSoftware.com/ForumPosts/Win10/10240/ScreenGrab_08_04_2015_061706.png The following log covers the time where I booted the VM into windowed mode at 1920 x 1200, then switched to full screen (2560 x 1600) then went to 3 monitor mode (4960 x 1600). I don't seem to be able to log off/on in the VM and remain in 3 monitor mode (VMware limitation?), so I can't test a fresh startup at the final resolution. No messages at all are logged at the time the glitches show. -Noel

That "Aero 7" theme by sagorpirbd seems a bit unpolished. It has potential - I like that it gives controls visual style - but doesn't do nice things like return style to the Win 10 Taskbar, and has a few little style glitches/mistakes (squared corners of a few buttons that should be rounded, glyphs not centered in caption buttons, etc.). I thought about trying to tweak the graphics in it a bit, but I've just gone back to standard Win 10 with my theme atlas replacement only. A fully polished full theme replacement that "does it all" will no doubt appear. People are already generating themes that are mostly working. It's already clear that we can have a better looking / smoother working Win 10 UI than what Microsoft delivered. Here's hoping Big Muscle can get FrameMargin working again. -Noel

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think 10240 is the current build. I haven't heard that there's any more "final" than that. Are you logged in with your Microsoft account? -Noel

No, I reviewed the list entry by entry and made the choice whether to remove it. The lines you quoted culminate in the same command I was using (Remove-AppxPackage). The several I'd want gone that wouldn't go via Remove-AppxPackage... Microsoft.XboxGameCallableUI_1000.10240.16384.0_neutral_neutral_cw5n1h2txyewy Microsoft.XboxIdentityProvider_1000.10240.16384.0_neutral_neutral_cw5n1h2txyewy Microsoft.Windows.Cortana_1.4.8.176_neutral_neutral_cw5n1h2txyewy Microsoft.Windows.ShellExperienceHost_10.0.10240.16384_neutral_neutral_cw5n1h2txyewy Microsoft.Windows.CloudExperienceHost_10.0.10240.16384_neutral_neutral_cw5n1h2txyewy Edit: Misread part of the post. Sorry. I neglected to try: Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -online The first command fails as listed. It needs a little more in it to avoid trying to remove Microsoft.Dism*: Get-AppxProvisionedPackage -online | Where-Object {$_.DisplayName -ne "Microsoft.Appconnector"} | Where-Object -FilterScript {$_.Name -notlike "Microsoft.Windows*"} | Where-Object -FilterScript {$_.Name -notlike "Microsoft.Dism*"} | Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -online -Noel

Thanks for your vote of confidence. Rest assured I'll be learning all I can to tweak Win 10 into a "To Work" system. The title you quoted ("...unwanted core apps")... Note that many cannot be removed via the commands shown. I assume Microsoft is trying to protect against excessive tweaking to the point where it really kills windows (and it's REALLY disappointing to think there are some Modern packages that are essential to its operation). I was a bit surprised that Microsoft.WindowsStore_2015.7.22.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe came right out, no problem. I call that a WIN! -Noel

Not seeing a bug... Maybe I'm just tired. Point it out please? Edit: Never mind. I see you have a window in the middle without a translucent top part. I got so used to seeing that when we didn't have a working ModernFrame I learned to ignore it. -Noel

Not Autoexec.bat, no. I believe the Task Scheduler could serve as the means to start any number of things at appropriate times. -Noel

Buyers of basic systems now have a more significant incentive to pay for the upgrade to Pro, methinks. -Noel

I long ago turned off all the overt settings (e.g., "participate in the Customer Experience Improvement Program") on this score, but I have occasionally wondered what's still cranking away in my Win 7 and 8.1 systems under the covers. I've not taken the time to research it like ptd163 has. I'm sure much of the stuff listed in the OP of this thread will be applicable. Figuring out precisely what will be a challenge, but not an insoluble one. I'm not saying I have time to undertake it just now, but good idea. Thanks. -Noel

You may be able to do the same thing by doing the following: Start an elevated CMD window. Type the following command to check the current status: NET ACCOUNTS Type the following command to avert password expiration: NET ACCOUNTS /MAXPWAGE:UNLIMITED -Noel