ragnargd

@98SE: I usually start with a disk-image/copy of another w98se-installation, which normally is a tried and true method. In this case, what makes me scratch my head most is the PCI-to-PCI-to-PCIe bridge the system sees during hardware-discovery, but does not know how to deal with. I suspect this has something to do with the implementation of PCIe on the new AMD chipsets. This makes all the compatible-between-w98se-and-W10 cards difficult to serve with a driver beyond real-mode, i suspect. Even if i won't get W98se to run on that board, it's not a waste, as it will be my new main system anyway. I'll also experiment with getting XP to run on it, but just not yet. I'll just now gather the boot-logs RLoew was asking for (and have a look at them myself, of course), i didn't have the time for that yet...

(at TheFinder: You just pop up when i need you most... like+1 ;-) I prepare ease-of-use by editing msdos.sys --- ;FORMAT [Paths] WinDir=C:\WINDOWS WinBootDir=C:\WINDOWS HostWinBootDrv=C [Options] BootMulti=1 BootGUI=0 DoubleBuffer=1 AutoScan=1 WinVer=4.10.2222 Logo=0 orig_diag_BootMenu=<nil> BootMenu=1 ; ;The following lines are required for compatibility with other programs. ;Do not remove them (MSDOS.SYS needs to be >1024 bytes). --- Then i boot to "Safe Mode commandline only" - i know the right time to do this is once my system hangs during installation of w98se ... --- I then use xRaYeRs method by: copy W98IOPAT.EXE to my root directory copy himemx.exe to c:\himem.exe copy himemx.exe to c:\windows\himem.exe start w98iopat.exe and follow the instructions printed on the screen (editing c:\config.sys and c:\windows\system.ini) Add ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1 to c:\windows\system.ini This just works well in 100% of the cases (on four different 775 boards, two different AM2+ boards, and seven different AM3+ boards, all of them having minimum 4 to maximum 64GB of Ram). --- I also have one DOS-directory in my path, with all DOS-files from DOS 7 and from the windows\command directory, and a dos-only copy of msdos.sys, autoexec.bat and config.sys, so when i have to reinstall, i have a working dos ready to start from. I also use NDN (a norton-commander clone).

Result of fresh installation with setup /p i: Windows doesn't even start. Of course I applied ushers method in the usual way when the system hang, as the usual cause was to be circumvented (16Ram...), but it hang none the less after applying the patch. And i tried safe mode thereafter as well - in vain, system hangs already in "dos-mode", no windows starts.

(For anyone interested, read here: http://www.thpc.info/how/switches9x.html#defp) In short: No. I started with a copy of an existing installation from my spare 890FX board, that had all necessary drivers for the cards already installed (i installed all of them on that machine to ease the process). Perhaps that was not the best way to do it, it was just how i installed new systems most successfully in the past (usually that was better than fresh and full installations). I'll just try full fresh setup later this night with that option. :-) (I did just find a collection of $things of another w9x-fan: http://www.tmeeco.eu/9X4EVER/GOODIES/ ) (Hell, did anyone know a good webserver for w98se even existed? http://aprelium.com/abyssws/ ) (Just have to learn to edit posts again on msfn with the new software running)

Hi, Folks, long story short: I tried the Ryzen/AM4 platform, and failed. (This was to be expected, but, hey, until you try out, you never know.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Reasons, short and sweet: ---------------------------------------------------------------- The memory management of DOS (and W98SE in consequence) is not compatible with this board/chipset, possibly due to "memory fragmentation" (ask RLoew about this... ), which is not a problem for, i.e., WIndows 10 64bit. This shows in DOS already, as i wasn't able to start setup, as the partition-data weren't recognized. And later, with an "imported" W98SE, only 157MB showed up, and the standard-VGA showed a scrambled desktop, which also points to problems with handling the meory correctly. All other symptoms are a mere consequence of this. The PC, enhanced by a powerful GPU and a nice RGB-case, will be a convincing birthday present for my son... ---------------------------------------------------------------- Components used: ---------------------------------------------------------------- Ryzen 5 1600X 16 GB DDR4 3200 Ram ASRock X370 Gaming X (for the 8x/8x constellation for Dual-GPU-stunt, and for two separate PS/2-ports) Geforce 7600 GT 256 MB (Rloew patch for Interrupt problems installed, just in case, but also without) PCI SATA Controller with 60GB Sata II SSD SuperTalent GX2 and IDE DVD on PCI-to-PCIe adapter SB Audigy on PCI-to-PCIe adapter. Some w98se-compatible PCIe GB Lan.... i don't care yet... ---------------------------------------------------------------- What worked: ---------------------------------------------------------------- DOS with Ushers XrAyeRs method. PS/2-keyboard Then booting into w98se... PS/2-Mouse SSD/DVD (sort of) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Symptoms of failure: ---------------------------------------------------------------- Setup in DOS wouldn't start, not accepting partition-data (by my experience, a problem that can only be attributed to memory-problems, once HDD-problems were tested for). I did an import of an already installed and ready-patched W98SE with drivers of all used components (as far as possible). Only 157MB showed in System. Starting with standard VGA, the screen was already scrambled, though readable. Hardware-detection failed for most components: Many devices were found by name, but except for "motherboard ressources" and some "bridges", few was detected or equipped with some kind of driver or setting finally (even though w98se tried valourously). A long list of yellow questionmarks and blue motherboard ressources in System, that's it for the most of it. I tried to activate the NVidia-driver for the 7600GT. It said it would. Result: Screen switched to black, and stayed that way. Going to safe mode brought back the scrambled screen. --------------------------------------------------- @RLoew: Thanks for your steady support and assistance! That's it, next platform...

ruthan, ...which is, all the boards i mention have SLI and 16x/16x (890FX) or SLI 8x/8x (970A) capability. It does work without - i tried on my ASRock 970 Pro3 R2.0 - but is was noticably slower on the faster GPU on XP or W10. W9x can only boot only from the primary card, as you cannot disable the primary slot on w9x. You can do that on XP or later (can't say for W2K). As i wrote here in the thread we are discussing in (ruthan, you DID read that, right? ...) on boards with 870 chipset, there on some boards you can set the physical secondary slot as the logical primary slot, circumventing this nuisance. There are some games "designed for w9x", that don't run with W10 (or on any 64-bit-Windows, to be precise), but do run with XP. That's why i always install XP as well. This was the reason i bought the GTX 770. I even bought a GTX Titan for that reason for my next build, as that card is the (nearly) fastest card still running on XP, and still does really well on W10 (similar to a GTX 970) up to 2560x1440. All AMD FX boards have full support with drivers and by Microsoft, so i don't feel like a winner making it run with XP. W7 runs out of support in three years, and i wouldn't want to reinstall my machines, as the build-up is quite complex anyway. So not going for W10 may become a problem later on. Still, as may here discovered, if you ever switch to W10, be careful with the energy options. RLoew opened a thread on that. The "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter" is used by W10, when there is no driver explicitely installed. But none the less, MS installs WDM drivers from NVidia or AMD (or Intel) via Windows Update, so even if it does not show, you will still have may features of the GPU available. This already happened with XP, so this is nothing new. I owned a 7950 GT as well, and was able to (and did) exchange it with my contemporary cards in my PCs without problems, using the 309 drivers (or the 307 on XP, or the inofficial on w9x). I just liked the 7900 GTX more, as it is faster (it's the fastest card for w9x), and liked the 7600 GT more, as it is easier to cool passively, and needs no additional power cable. Therefore, i always start with the 7600 GT in a new build, for it beeing silent and hassle-free, and once i decide to keep the build, switch to a 7900 GTX. I gave the 7950 GT away. I owned the Asus-board you mention, i just sold it after trying it, as i now only keep SLI-enabled boards. But it worked well. RLoew kept it, afaik, so you might ask him. I relocated my one GTX 960 to my multimedia PC, and the other to the PC of my daughter. I built the GTX 950 into a PC as a present for a boy that did not have enough money to buy a gamer-PC. I rarely sell my stuff, rather give them as a gift to people who need stuff, and have only small amounts of money. When i retired most of my AGP-stuff lately, to make room for my new builds, a built three PCs for a local camp of refugees from Afghanistan and Syria. My two 7900 GTX only have DVI-D ports, so i use an DVI-D-to-VGA cables or adapters for w98se. But i never had any problem using DVI-D with w98se at all. Still, VGA has two advantages: On most monitors, it is the first port to be scanned for input, and there are some monitors, that don't show all resolutions on DVI-D, while they did on VGA (i gave both away). I have to do this anyway, as the KVM i'm using does only support VGA. All the cards i have do have DVI-D ports, but unfortunately, all KVMs i know of that support DVI-D don't support PS/2 (which, for me, is essential). Bios did never matter for me. What did matter, was the speed of cards - but only in SLI with XP. But i wouldn't say i know all cards, so YMMV. I use exactly the same drivers as you do. I had my multi-boot PCs running with W7 some years ago (except for the 970A Krait), using all cards without problem. Again: I will, but maybe not today.

For the magic to happen, you have to ask the right questions. Screenshots are in the 7z-Attachment (otherwise the filesize would have been over the MSFN-threshold), they show my flagship with an ASRock 890FX Deluxe5. The 7900 GTX is connected to VGA and used as the primary display by W98SE, the 770 GTX is connected to DVI-D, and used as the primary display by XP and W10. Because of a limited number of software-licenses, i have only one other PC in this constellation running: MSI 970A SLI Krait 16GB DDR3 AMD 4320 FX SB Audigy PCI NV 7900 GTX 512MB (-> VGA, for W98SE) NV GTX 960 2GB (-> HDMI, for XP, W10 and Ubuntu) SATA-II-SSD fpr W98SE connected PCI add-in SATA I card with a VIA 6421A chipset (sitting on a PCI-to-PCIe-adapter). As i'm experimenting with PCI-to-PCIe-Adapters on that machine at the moment, i can't do screenshots of that one right now. Once i have my Ryzen, the hardware will be used on that machine (if it workes out). Hardware.7z

Totally off topic, but lmgtfy: https://sha2017.org/ Issues with NVidia-cards can also be discussed here (i hang out there occasionally as well): https://forums.geforce.com/default/board/46/legacy/ (i hope the link works, sha-users are blocked by nvidia... can't say why that may happen...

That user is me, btw., that's why you can find my name next to that combo ... ... but don't worry, i'll show you a screenshot, once i'm back from Sha 2017... geeez... mysterious, inexplainable whitchcraft coming up... wait for it...

You should read the thread you are posting in...

I have a shrine to my God Bill Gates, and occasionally sacrifice XP-install-cds there, when goat-heads are not at hand. Every time i hack a Windows Server installation, i even sacrifice a Windows 7 CD, to keep him from getting really angry...

Sorry, i don't understand what you mean here. I'm not a native speaker, so bear with me... Do HAL-updates exist for XP that cover Ryzen CPUs and chipsets? For W98se there won't be any... That works on i.e. 370X chipsets? Interesting. I suggest we continue the XP-subjects on the XP board - i opened a thread there ("XP on Ryzen?"), you might look for it. You enthusiasm for XP and your long experience with it may become very valuable there. Switching off ACPI is a known technique on this MSFN/W9x-board for stubborn boards, and I'd consider doing that, if necessary: For the AM3+ boards, i never had to do that, and therefore have high hopes, that won't be necessary for Ryzen-chipsets. Still, this is speculation, i'll first test if i can get all necessary PCI-cards to run in PCIe-to-PCI adapters... ... ... (SATA-AddIn works, being half-height, Soundblaster Audigy, which are full-height, are mechanically challenging, i still wait for an adapter from amazon US) ... and make the onboard-LAN of X370-boards run with NDIS2-drivers (by perhaps buying an AddIn card with the same chipset), before doing the investment in Ryzen. Thank you for your input!

Good hint. As far as i can see, the board i have in mind, ASRock Fatal1ty X370 Gaming X, has it (necessarily, as it has both PS/2 mouse and PS/2 keyboard).

Yeah, very right. Still, i have the gut feeling, making w9x run on Ryzen will be easier than making XP run there. XP has a much more sensitive kernel (i can see BSODs coming a lot), where, in fact, w9x doesn't have one at all (unless you call DOS a kernel... ;-), so it might bother less. But we'll see.

This was a very good start for my day. Thank you, deomsh!

Hi, did anybody here try XP (32bit or 64bit) on the Ryzen/AM4 platform? What was the result? Which HW did you try? P.S.: I found only two threads that mentioned XP on Ryzen at all. If, for some reason, i failed at searching on MSFN, and missed YOUR thread, just throw in a link to that thread here. Thank you! P.P.S.: I don't own a Ryzen yet, i'm still evaluating if i invest that money. If i did already, i'd not post questions, but results... P.P.P.S.: If you did NOT try, please help keeping this thread compact, by opening a new thread for rants on why not, or why to use a VM, or whatever. This thread is meant for people trying on hardware. Thanks for your cooperation...

I have no other explanation. FIXINTR - as i'm lazy (and it works without flaw) - i'm sure using two FIXINTR# would have been "more elegant", but, well... But i was easely able to pinpoint the problem (aka FIXINTR#), after removing the NVidia card. I still have to test, if this is specific to a chipset (970A, 890FX) or board. P.S.: FIXEOI ? Did i miss something?

You put a lot of work there - and i like what i see. Thank you for sharing the info in so much detail!

Officially: No. But it uses the same values as this supported one: 775 / Pentium Dual Core / E6600 (R0) / Wolfdale 3.06GHz / 1066MHz / 2MB / All ... so it may work just out-of-the box. If you have board and CPU anyway, you may well try out, neither board nor CPU are in danger of getting damaged. (But i have a good IT-lawyer, just in case you screw up and try to sue me... )

You have there a board that provides the privilege to run w9x with a Xeon (even if it's only a relabeled c2d or c2q ... )

So, does your board run w9x? If yes, what GPU do you use? A socket 1151 board running w9x would be news...

...look at my profile-pic... i already wear my hard hat... :-D P.S.: I found your interrupt-fix to be necessary for getting my soundblaster audigy to run on AM3+ boards (installing the fix for their interrupt) - independent of of nvidia cards/drivers.

Can be read like a crime mystery. If i ever get a NIc to work this way, i'll write a step-by-step instruction. Not yet, though, my Raid5 of 4 disks just lost 2 disks at once (36° C at the moment here), the last backup is 10 days old, and my WHS2011 says "i don't know anything about making backups... what? 10 days ago i did that? Can't even remember...". Not a good start for a day...

jaclaz, you are right, as always. You really deserve your "The Finder"... ;-)

You are welcome. You slowly seem to get the hang of it, and your questions start to charter more territory - this is good. Just go on! Unfortunately, i know no reliable benchmark program running under w9x, and share your sentiment about CrystalDiskMark. Because of the rather low speed of ordinary IDE, or SATA-HDDs on these "pseudo"-IDE ports, i exclusively use SATA II SSDs. I had similar error messages as on your first screenshot (FIFO IDE) on my controller, and found a rather unpleasant way of removing it: I removed the SATA III SSD (a Vertex3 60GB), and connected a SATA II SSD (SuperTalent GX2, 128GB), and reset the controller (by removing the real-mode flag in the registry), and rebooted. Problem gone. It thus were the controllers on the SSD that forced the mobo-controller into real mode. The same problem may exist with hard disks. I don't know a good way for you to find out if that problem relates to you, but if you have i.e. older HDDs, it may be worth trying - though it may be cumbersome, as it may require moving the installation, or reinstalling. You do have the links to Realtek? http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/ I opened a new thread requesting help in both our names... I successfully use the Intel 1000 MT PCI Gigabit Adapter. If i find time, I may try out, if it works in an PCI to PCIe-Adapter. After all is said and done, getting an NVidia card to run is just so much better, esp. if you have RLoews patch, so, don't bother about ATI-cards. I found neither official nor inofficial drivers, and what crap i found, didn't work. I abandoned the idea of using the SE. I now only use cards with the EMU10K2 chipset, my time is more valuable than the headaches with other chipsets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Audigy There usually is a good and cheap selection on ebay, i bought some there, all for under € 10,-- I never used RLoews SATA-patch, so i can't help you there. My trick (as i already said) is SATA II SSDs on port 5/6 (Legacy-IDE mode), or, if that doesn't work, the same SSDs on the add-in card with the VT6421A chipset. I don't know any benchmark results, but my machines are blazing fast with that solution, booting like *snap!*. (Expect the next RLoew advertisment for his SATA-patch to come up in this thread in 3-2-1- ... ... sorry, couldn't resist...) There is only so much you can do with NUSB, it is meant for storage, and for nothing else. If your USB-device is NOT storage, and does NOT have a distinct driver for w9x, i do not have any ready-made solution. Other members of the community reported these devices working, so you have to ask them.