bittorrent

[HyperHacker]

Yes, and what really gets me is how ads keep getting worse and worse. Staples and Frank's Red Hot Sauce are two examples of things that simply should not be allowed on television. And yet they censor boobs and swears (even blur their mouth, wtf), big hairy deal.

Kinda funny to see ads for other cable companies though.

Edited September 9, 2005 by HyperHacker

[Hatefulsorrow]

Back on subject.

I remember reading something a few weeks ago about the RIAA looking into torrents as well as other types of warez. Supposedly that RIAA was patitioning the Supreem Court for the right to prosocute (sorry about the speeling, lol) any person or persons that dl from such sites. This was supposed to be done by logging the inbound and outbound IP's from the those who veiwed the site.

This, I believe, would cause a very big problem. Because they want to base their lawsuites on the fact that just veiwing the page is illegal. They attributed warez to child porn in the sence that it is a vialation of law to veiw it rather then just download.

But as before stated, no real action is being taken against the site host, just the end user.

I can't be sure that this is true but it is what I've read on some other fourm.

Off topic:

The fact that the government has the right to censor such things is wrong to begin with. When did the government control the people and not the people control the government?

For the people my a**. No one person has the right to express themselves freely without having to either go through the governments paperwork and contrants or without fear of prison or some other form of punishment by the government due too their indiviuality.

But this is just my two cents. No offence intended.

[redder]

@Hatefulsorry:

On topic- RIAA has been taking action against the hosts themselves, just look at PirateBay and the threats they've received, also there has been a great deal of Torrent sites shut down due to RIAA, when Demonoid faced problems with RIAA they chose to change hosts to some other country (probably Sweatzerland) just so that they wouldn't face these problems.

On the second unofficial topic in this thread:

I'll be honest with you on this, I download everything you can possible imagine from the torrent protocol. And I don't see piracy as being wrong mostly because "I grew up with it" when you grow up with something which is wrong you will mostly never see it, in this country even computer stores are pirates, a friend of mine bought from a legit computer store a CD from Windows XP Professional with a legit Corp CD-key.

What damage does that do can you honestly tell me? What damage does that do to a company like Microsoft who goes out to the luxury of spending more than a billion dollars in a operating system, when we see how much money is spent in Linux distros. All the software I have, is mostly open source, except for Office97 (which is faster and more reliable than any other [pirated]), Windows XP Professional [pirated], Macromedia [pirated], Adobe Photoshop [pirated], I don't even use a Antivirus anymore there's no point in it, but if I did it would also be pirated. And why? Again it's mine and the excuse of many I can't afford it, these programs are programs I'll use daily for many many reasons, mostly because I'm still in school. Adobe, Microsoft and Macromedia make their profits from companies and professional free lancers, what kind of damage do you think these multi million profit machines get from piracy? Because companies most certainly won't try because they will be easily caught. What good is for them to sue every person between the age of 10 and 50 who will download their products???

[Hatefulsorrow]

Im not sure what there is to gain from doing so. I was just stating a point. I too use a pirated OS and software. I was just bringing up topics for thought and debate. I too am a student. But unlike the others in the form I dl not because I can't afford it (i cant but thats not the point) I dl because I don't like that big corportations like microsoft have so much power. And in such I only dl from such companies. As the little guy I feel that this is all I can do. I too have grown up in a world where it is acceptable to pirate. But as many argue, is it wrong or right?

The fact that the influence of the microsoft corportation reaches to almost every home on the planet sickens me. No person or group of people should have such control or influence. They are now to the point that the only rival to their influence is religon. This contry (the US) was based on free trade and we have laws that say that such influence is illegal. (its called a monopoly) But in the face of the largest threat to such the government has turned a blind eye.

It's true that these corporations don't feel a d*** thing when it comes to the day to day user pirating. But they feel that this is unacceptable. They want every last cent.

Greed my friend, pure greed.

[atomizer]

@atomizer

That's why this is a forum, we can agree to disagree, I just have a bit of problem understanding what you ment by freedom. If you're saying that the internet shouldn't be regulated then I agree one hundred percent, but it is regulated and by who we least expect, not the government but Internet companies, there is only one way for us to find out information quickly (Search Engines) and the companies who own them have the power to regulate what you can or can't find.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, i'm saying that the net shouldn't be regulated and agree with you that, in fact, it is. however, the idea of tolorating what it is you hate in any medium, society, etc., still holds true if you want complete freedom. so am i saying i want an unregulated society? no. i'm willing to trade some freedom for piece of mind. it's just that too much freedom is being sacrificed IMO. there's no doubt in my mind that "our" gov controls us, not the other way around. i think that if the fathers of this country were alive today, it wouldn't be long before they'd organize a milita with the intention of overthrowing the government.

as far as the net however, some oasises exist, like Freenet, filesharing, six / four, etc.

@vando2k

there are many who will disagree with you and although i think you're partially wrong (profits come from every sale, not just corp. sales), there's certainly a twist here worth mentioning: i also d/l music, movies and, sometimes, software. the relevant question, to me, is whether or not i would've bought this material if i didn't d/l it and the answer is an absolute NO. for instance, i haven't bought music in the last 10+ years, yet i've only been downloading it for the last few years. in all my life i've bought 1 movie and went to the theater maybe a dozen times, yet i've only been downloading films in the last few months. and as far as software, if i had to pay for the commercial apps i do have, i'd find alternatives (which i'm mostly doing anyway).

and then i'll turn it around even more by stating that, in my case, d/l'ing commercial material has actually caused me to consider buying it -- something that would be unlikely otherwise. for instance, i'm becoming sort of an audio freak and it's not easy to d/l CD quality music. so now, when i go shopping for something, i sometimes find myself lingering around the movie and music sections -- something i stopped doing a long time ago, long before i started d/l'ing.

[redder]

Yeah it is true what you said Hatefulsorrow I agree on that, they do want every penny.

Many say it isn't an excuse "not being able to afford it" but in my opinion it is that is what I was saying, I mean, my country isn't a third world one, I bet Gouki would be able to say something about that lol, but it isn't a third world country, still we are not a very rich one. In the US as I know the min. wage is 5 bucks an hour, which goes to 200 a week, but the avarage person from my knowledge earns about 7 a week and compared to this country it is a lot, and the software prices are basicly the same anywhere in the world.

So it is in my opinion acceptable to say some can't afford it, I mean, how many users are there in this board from countries like Uganda, Mozambique or Timor Lorosae??

If your monthly income was only 500 US dollars a month would you really think of buying software or music CD's when you had a computer and internet connection? Software doesn't feed hungry stomachs or minds.

If it is right or wrong... Hatefulsorrow I can't really answer that, but if we took the Microsoft case.. I would say it could be right, it isn't stealing as much as their corporate strategies aren't stealing other companies market place, would it do them any harm to make a nix version of a OS which they would be able to sell at a reasonable price? 80 bucks for XP with the kind of license they provide, in my opinion is to much of what anyone can afford to pay.

[redder]

@atomizer

I agree with you that your govt controls to much over what you can do or not with the internet, the same is starting to happen with the EU. I just don't see anyway that all of us could have a saying in this matter, its as if the govt had a mind of its own.

about what you said on sales, well im not exacly sure of that because im not in the music industry, someone happened to say how it worked in this forum, he/she said this, what you said about buying those things if you hadnt downloaded them, well honestly i would have if i could afford to. i have about 800 mp3s on my hard drive, 150 of them are from the Cocteau Twins, i always wanted to buy their cds but i really cant afford them, the first time i saw them in a store they costed 35 euros, the cheapest i saw were 16 euros, which i would have honestly bought if i had the money even though i already have the same music in my computer. just like i would have bought a windows cd if i had 50 bucks to buy the original one. about finding free alternatives well its good that people do that, but impossible to run away from all of it i think, we can try though.

i dont go to the theater at all just like you do, and i dont download movies to burn, because the movies you can download online always come with a crappy quality and its not worth it downloading a 4gb thing when you can just go to the video club and rent it, you're still paying for it and you can still see it. i know my views are "wrong" by all of your perspectives, but just how many of you have really bought the software you have? its not that i agree with pirating for everything, i dont have much choice for it either, yeah thats my excuse for it unfortunally...

[Hatefulsorrow]

It is true that, in comparision, people in the US make a lot of money. But the cost of living is also very high. And after taxes and bills most people make much less money then they look like they make. But I do agree with you about the fact that software does not feed the hungery. In a perfect world such a thing would not even exist. But this world is not perfect. If not for anything else but that fact, the money should go back to the "people" not to the person. I believe that the worlds hunger problem would be solved if all that money went back to the people rather then to that corporation. They have plenty more money then they could ever spend. Why not give the extra to people who really need it?

I do like your idea about a low cost OS that is affordable to the people according to their area and geological location. But that, alas, is nothing more then a pipedream. If such a thing existed with the resorces of a company like microsoft many more people would be able to live life much easier.

The fact that software is the same price almost everyware is wrong. So many other thing must adhear to different currentcy rates. How is it that such a large product as software was able to slip through the cracks?

The idea that money fixes any problem is truly shown by this fact. Some things just shouldn't be allowed. No execptions. Like murder. No government on the planet doesn't have laws against that type of thing. But if you have enough money you can do anything. Why this is only you can deside for yourself, but I think its the most revolting thing about the world. It's sad to realize that a peice of paper is worth more then a human life.

But then again I have gone way off subject. It's hard to discuss something like piracy with out touching on many other topics that pertain to the reason behind it. I'll let you decide if you can relate to this or if its just another persons rambling.

[redder]

You are right it is a dream a flexible price OS. I didn't exacly understood the second part of your post... but i think i got your major point, it just depends on the person id say.

I have the notion that software is the same price anywhere in the world, of course currency exchanges change that value sometimes to higher prices, but in the end it will cost you the same anywhere around the world, all we need to do to find that out is ask our fellow members of this board who live outside of America and Europe

edit:

@atomiser: those sites you mentioned the freenet and hacktivismo, seem really cool i think i will pay attention to them, freenet specially seems like a wonderful project, how the internet should really be

Edited September 9, 2005 by vando2k

[Hatefulsorrow]

I looked at it too. Definately the way it should be.

*Edit*

Vando2k. It has been very good debating with you. I've have learned alot and learned a new view on things. Unfortunately I need sleep. I'm on hour 41 with out it. I hope we can pick up where we left off some time soon.

As too everyone else, please don't be shy about your opinion.

Hatefulsorrow

Edited September 9, 2005 by Hatefulsorrow

[redder]

I looked at it too. Definately the way it should be.

*Edit*

Vando2k. It has been very good debating with you. I've have learned alot and learned a new view on things. Unfortunately I need sleep. I'm on hour 41 with out it. I hope we can pick up where we left off some time soon.

As too everyone else, please don't be shy about your opinion.

Hatefulsorrow

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Offtopic.

My sentiments exacly, thank you, I'm sure we will discuss it later lol I have a job interview so I'll be busy.

On-topic:

Take a look at the legal threats a PirateBay(Torrent tracker website) has received.

PirateBay - Legal threats

[Zxian]

Well... I haven't been sued, but I got a message from my ISP reporting "suspicious activity" (i.e. me downloading stuff...) on the BT network.

AFAIK, downloading here in Canada is not illegal - sharing/uploading is. It's my ISP's policy to not allow copyright infringement. They just don't want to deal with the people with proverbial torches and pitchforks.

[ripken204]

well that cant be good, i think that i hear of some case somewhere with that and the isp ended up being sued b/c of invasion of priacy. but this is in the US and u know how screwed up our laws are

[redder]

Zxian and ripken204: Do your ISP contracts stipulate that you can't spam or perform illegal activities with the service? Do you guys have such things on your ISP contracts?

[ripken204]

i have no clue as my dad pays for it, lol. but i do remember hearing a case about it