Win98 on old x235 server(socket 604 2 sockets), first reboot windows logo freeze and some server specific question + NT4 boot

[ruthan]

Aha, ok.. i tried to boot directly from disk to bypass grub, it was the same.. i also checked Grub2 - from Debian 12 and i disabled all drive mapping things.

Here is devtree report and bunch of others from Windows98
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/yx9t5iqelcfvo346oeoph/ibmX235-Reports.7z?rlkey=a7vtuziyoouz2gwl6cymyw2un&dl=1

[SweetLow]

Ok, the first suspiction is known:

PCI\CC_010182

This is non-standard PCI ATA controller - with the first switchable ATA channel. 

OTOH, BIOS really programmed this channel in legacy mode (82), so there is no problem with installation.

But I see the real problem with the second channel:

Secondary IDE controller (single fifo) [hdc]

** HARDWAREID: MF\BADSECONDARY

WTF? Try to delete this channel (in Safe Mode if it is invisible in Device Manager or use some third party tool).

You should get "Secondary ATA Channel (dedicated IRQ)" for this channel.

P.S. Where you got this "SATA.INF"? It's my renamed ATAPCIBM.INF

And don't stop here - try to use the latest version of ESDI_506.PDR too:

https://msfn.org/board/topic/186313-patches-for-esdi_506pdr-from-windows-98se-rloews-terabyte-plus-pack-21-and-more/

And the next step - show me the %windir%\IOS.LOG

[ruthan]

I cant delete secondary channel other way than simply send that controller has only primary channel, i already did it.

I also tried Rloew purgehc which is removing channels, but after redetecting is the same - Controller in legacy mode, channels in dedicated IRQ as you wrote - but both have code 10 error.

Sata.inf is from Windows98 - Quick install:
https://github.com/oerg866/win98-quickinstall
,i  also used some ultimate drivers pack for Windows 98/ NT/ XP from archive.org, but i think that Sata.inf is from quick install.
https://archive.org/details/UltimateWindowsDriverPackforVistaxp9895me20002003

Here is IO.Log:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zjyiq6p3crlxqwbb9oy2h/IOS.7z?rlkey=5g5h5dfl80b2n5pq8ha2zxt98&dl=1

[SweetLow]

IOS.Log:

UnKnown int 13 hooker MBRINT13
Driver Name: mbrint13.sys
Character Driver
Driver Info:
INT 13 Hook: 9BFB0000

You are using some INT 13h MBR Handler (not conforming to Windows 9x Safe MBR Hook standard). If we were 25 years ago I could say this is an MBR virus. 

Edited March 25 by SweetLow

[MERCURY127]

or we have just buggy/bad code is IDE cntrl BIOS add-on or main bios.

[SweetLow]

3 hours ago, MERCURY127 said:

or we have just buggy/bad code is IDE cntrl BIOS add-on or main bios

 

14 hours ago, SweetLow said:

INT 13 Hook: 9BFB0000

It is not the USUAL address of main or add-on BIOS (it is 9BFB:0000 really and this is conventional memory near the end). Of course, any BIOS code can relocate itself into conventional memory but I never saw such thing.

P.S. And it is pretty easy insulating by booting from other media.

Edited March 25 by SweetLow

[ruthan]

Well, i actually saw some message about possible virus when i booted Windows 98 through grub, after some grub or partition changes, its not in every boot.. Im like to still fix grub2 start too.

I was messing with some other bootloaders because i had problem to start NT4 without it, so maybe there some leftover.. Now im starting it through grub2 and Windows 2000+ bootloaders.
  In NT4 disc controllers is working fine, but with direct disk boot, i always getting:
NTDetect V4.0 Checking Hardware..
NTDETECT failed
  I have tried bootpart to fix it, WinNT5 booloaders, fix from NT emergency floppy, Paragon boot corector, downgrade NTFS version, but i never bypassed it.. Maybe its still simply WinNT partition too far away of start of the disk (15GB). but bootloader is copied on first partition too. I have tried all possible boot.ini settings to start from 1 and 2 nd partition and number booting disk as 0 or 1.

  When i use bootpart or Windows 98 startup disk to fix Windows 98 boot its fixed fine and only Win9x
--------------
Otherwise there is Grub2 settings for Windows98 boot it through grub2:

menuentry 'Win98 SE + MSDOS 7.1 experiments (on PATA IDE /dev/sdb1)' --class windows9xme --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-chain-7838-CD1A' {
    insmod ata
    insmod biosdisk
    insmod fat
    set root='hd1,msdos1' # select disk and partition number
    if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
      search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd1,msdos1 --hint-efi=hd1,msdos1 --hint-baremetal=ahci1,msdos1  7838-CD1A
    else
      search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 7838-CD1A
    fi
    #parttool ${root} hidden-  # Removes hidden attribute if some partition are hidden
    #  Ensure than hdd is the first one
    drivemap -s (hd0) ${root} # It should helps with BIOS drive mapping
    chainloader +1 # Starts OS from 1st partition sector
}

 

[SweetLow]

4 hours ago, ruthan said:

WinNT5 booloaders

Use NT5 bootloader AND NTDETECT.COM, both they are compatible with NT4 kernel.

4 hours ago, ruthan said:

Maybe its still simply WinNT partition too far away of start of the disk (15GB).

As I remember it was fixed in NT4.0 SP4 or near but if you will use NT5 things it does not matter.

But it is definitely offtopic HERE.

[ruthan]

I will try full clean reinstall without onboard SCSI tomorrow probably, to be sure there are not some boot loader leftovers.

17 hours ago, SweetLow said:

Use NT5 bootloader AND NTDETECT.COM, both they are compatible with NT4 kernel.

As I remember it was fixed in NT4.0 SP4 or near but if you will use NT5 things it does not matter.

But it is definitely offtopic HERE.

   I hope that is there so strict, i renamed topic to include NT4.
1) what is max limit nt4 boot loader from the start of disk, i have installed the last SP6a. So it something else, other error which i saw from other bootloaders  is:
Disk I/O: error: Status = 00000001
 2) I already tried to use Xolt and Plop bootloaders.. and BootICE and Dualboot repair to fix it, all start fine only Win9x (and Xolt works for like every second try for WIndows 98 - boot menu freeze - blinking cursor, no keyboard and now menu timeout working).. I dual boot repair and BootICE have NT5 / NT6 bootloader options, but it never worked.
I wonder can just manually rewrite, NTDLR -files to NT4 partitions or i need update MBR code too? If yes what is your proven tool to do it. Maybe its chipset broken, but from SCSI Grub2 bootloader is starting fine from partition at 200 GB or so, even from extended volume. 
  The last thing which i have to try is Grub4Dos bootloader, BootIce could do it too.
 

Edited March 26 by ruthan

[SweetLow]

6 hours ago, ruthan said:

If yes what is your proven tool to do it.

The first and only tool that you need to do this is MS bootsect.exe

It can set (modern) MBR code and nt5- or nt6+ boot sectors.

 

[SweetLow]

On 3/25/2025 at 8:44 AM, SweetLow said:

Windows 9x Safe MBR Hook

JFYI, in addition to use right handler there is two other possiblities in Windows:

1. Point system that exactly this driver is safe (and PM drivers can load).

2. Point system than nothing at all is preventing PM drivers from loading and system can skip all compatibility checks.

[ruthan]

Pata without SCSI test its working fine, after readding SCSI:
1) I have tried to remove SCSI and install Windows 98 and PATA worked fine.
I returned SCSI controller and it was still fine.
After i have tried to boot from Grub2 and it broke again.
Next i have tried to install Grub4dos instead of Grub2 and again no error.
I also tried to recover the old install disk image, it was still working fine with Grub4dos.
Resource range in Windows 98 seems the same for both - working and not working situation:

Conclusion:
- It seems that MERCURY127 was right and problem was related to Grub2, or some other bootloader leftover, or some other settings problem..
I have checked Grub2 settings, there is possible to install at some Grub2 modules, for specific PATA and SCSI controllers and ad it to grub.cfg starting line, there also insmods to adjust Windows boot options
but its only for Linux booting, grub2 Windows booting have not such options..
  I also looked in Grub 2 WIndows 98 starting options, but not found anything what could cause it problem, or some additional parameters,
it probably not expect that there would be only 1 channel on PATA controller.
- i have also used -  BootRepair CD (https://sourceforge.net/projects/boot-repair-cd/) to restore Grub mutiple times- machine is 32bit only, so i cant some recent version of Boot repair, im not sure if was used some older Grub2, or is used that from Debian 12 (i will check it later) Boot repair sometimes use its own version of Grub2, sometimes it use original Linux one version.
 Update: Used version of Grub2 is 2.06-13+deb12u1 (so from its name is recent Debian 12 one version, so problem is not outdate Grub2 version from Boot Repair disk)
- maybe problem could only disk order - when i boot from SCSI - Grub2 - SCSI disk is first DIsk when i boot from second disk (Win98+NT4) disk disk0 is Pata

Adaptec SCSI in Windows 98 working too:
2) Also adaptec 29160 is now starting without code 10 error, if start it without Grub2.

Bootsec NT4 start:
2) Bootsec, how to use it, should i copy bootsec.?
Should i copy it from Windows XP cd and run it from NT4, or boot from Windows XP boot install cd? What you mean by PM  - some partition manager?
I have tried different Plop boot loader and Grub4dos/Grub2/Xosl, but again the same error. I only able to start NT4, from Windows 2008 bootloader (BCD hell) or Windows XP/ 2000 bootloader.

Edited March 29 by ruthan