Vista on Ryzen - vista might like bluescreens wayy too much

[Aiek]

On 12/2/2023 at 6:51 PM, D.Draker said:

Maybe off-topic, care to tell how it performs? AMD still makes 3.6Ghz CPU, it looks low when we almost in 2024.

welp.. this one is gonna be loooooooooong.

it is more than enough for basic tasks, however in gaming it already started to show its age:

from what ive heard and saw from my friends and youtube videos, the 5th series a lot better than the 3rd, a really good friend of mine got windows 7 to work on his ryzen 5 5600 & b550 system, so yes, you will get vista to work on a 5th series, id probably stay away from a 3rd gen in 2024 and beyond, since there are still really good upgrade paths to 5th. it struggles with 240hz gaming, which kinda sucks for me

why am i absolutely trashing on the ryzen 7 3700x right now? it literally gets demolished by an i9 9900k in any benchmark you can throw at it, now im still gonna be an AMD d$*%rider here and tell you to stay away from intel if you wanna use vista on any intel chip (amd is just miles ahead in the backwards compatibility part), but now lets get to personal experience;

I got this chip in mid 2021 when i couldve very well bought a 5th gen cpu (money was tight tho), and i can say it will still work well for the next 10 years, but you can say that about any 2019 cpu if im being real here. The 1% lows are really painful on this chip, but i use 1080p so its not like im gonna notice it much (would hurt on 4k or 1440p), other than that it is pretty good if we arent talking about synthetic tests/benchmarks, but my biggest problem with it overall is that it kinda bottlenecks anything past a 1080ti, and like thats bad. I am probably gonna upgrade 5 months to 1 year, im most likely going to get a ryzen 9 5th gen (yeah yeah scream at me BOOO no upgrade paths!! its not like im gonna run windows 11 on it anyways, i need to for windows 7 and vista)

now about the : AMD still makes 3.6Ghz CPU, it looks low when we almost in 2024.
for their low end models (ryzen 3's), its really funny how amd can just continue milking low clock speed cpus and people will still buy the chips them 
the 5th gens have really good clocks tho, like even my laptop's cpu  (ryzen 7 5825u) has higher clocks than my ryzen 7 3700x

if you want to see some videos about this chip that show you how it performs in 2023, id check these out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QL881FR0IU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caEqZOOAlRc

this one isnt about that chip but i have the same chipset as this guy and im considering getting this cpu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK9kd0-LhFM

well, thats all i have to say about this very chip, conclusion: id stay away from it in 2024 and beyond, dont get this cpu, get a 5th gen instead

EDIT: I shouldve also said that the 3rd generation really made sense back when there was no 5th gen, the 5th generation is really better in all aspects, except for the pricing, any 3rd gen ryzen is 50% cheaper compared to any 5th gen cpu. I'd probably avoid the 3rd generation unless you get your hands on a ryzen 7 3700x for like under 70 american dollars, thats a really sweet deal even tho the cpu kinda sucks (well, it will run games well for like another 2-3 years then it will start being even crappier, i cannot wait to see how 3rd gen ryzen owners complain on reddit about the 1% low stutters 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Aiek

[D.Draker]

Liked your review, thank you! So, basically you're saying Vista will not BSOD with the 5th gen.? I mean, of course if we are to assume I already bought the USB PCI board.

[Dixel]

I have the same question, I'm looking for an upgrade path for my 2013 gaming rig. Yes, 2013, don't laugh. The new one would need to run Vista x64.

[66cats]

On 12/1/2023 at 10:46 AM, Dixel said:

I run 32-bit Vista Sp1 on a Haswell machine

Just curious, what sort of problems did you have with x64? Got 2 Haswll boxes (a Dell 9020 i7 & Asus z87 Dual Deluxe i7k) running extended kernel with only minor issues.

The office Dell:  No USB drivers (so no keyboard/mouse) when rebooting from 10 or 11. Cold boot (as in power down & back up), or rebooting from XP, Vista, or 7 works without issues 9 out of 10 times. Occasionally (rarely) some services fail to start (no GPU acceleration or audio). Logging out & back in is usually enough as a fix. Not sure if USB3 ports run at full speed. Once Vista is up, it behaves & is stable -- used it daily for over a month without rebooting, no problems. Some software issues, but i think those are caused by extended kernel (have to use older Afterburner, Passmark 8 errors out, DreamScene broken, etc.) -- this also happens for me on Ivy & earlier boxes running extended kernel.

The Asus: Same as above, but boot problems happen more often. Again, once Vista is up, no more problems. Certainly no BSODs, not even once irrc. 

TL:DR: People exaggerate >Ivy Bridge problems/timer issues, maybe give x64 another shot? Dual boot, maybe?

Edited December 3, 2023 by 66cats

[Dixel]

3 hours ago, 66cats said:

Just curious, what sort of problems did you have with x64?

No BSOD, no performance drop, but black screen of death, right at the start with anything after RTM, SP2 with updates especially! Only hard reset! 

With RTM it was a delayed or never started service/services, most common: audio service or some other services like "licensing".

Black screen of death also happened with RTM, but rarely, and it could be bypassed via task manager.

[Dixel]

3 hours ago, 66cats said:

The Asus: Same as above, but boot problems happen more often. Again, once Vista is up, no more problems.

Yes, you're right, I also have the piece of garbage Asus on that rig, with Fujitsu Siemens Haswel board it happened very rarely, but still happened, annoying.

Looks like China made boards simply use cheaper timers, seems like a plausible explanation.

[Aiek]

9 hours ago, D.Draker said:

Liked your review, thank you! So, basically you're saying Vista will not BSOD with the 5th gen.? I mean, of course if we are to assume I already bought the USB PCI board.

well, yes

the blue screens wont stop unless you buy a usb board (the one that dixel suggested) or if you fully disable the usb controller, from what i see it's a ryzen-motherboard related issue, ryzens really hate vista and some older builds of windows 7, i learnt this the hard way. I literally bought an x470 thinking it would fix my problems (in the end it didnt lol, but it works great with my windows 7 install!)

[D.Draker]

I tried to switch OFF all USB3.0/3.1 devices and controllers in the BIOS of my Kaby-lake board, it didn't help. I even tried to use only PS/2 mouse/keyboard.

 

[D.Draker]

With Kaby-lake based board - Vista doesn't BSOD for me, but has the black screen at startup (like Dixel wrote),

Windows 7 can't properly utilize CPU C-states, it can't even downclock the CPU to 800MHZ, like it should.

So the CPU stays at higher frequencies, runs hotter.

[D.Draker]

I'm just afraid Ryzen will do the same as Kaby, and the USB3 board, I already have it, it's a bit different, but with that exact chip.

Does your Ryzen with win7 go into the idle 800MHZ mode, or whatever the lowest state?

[Dixel]

At some point in time (2015?), I got a stable Vista x64 RTM on a Haswell mobo, one would need to clean the ISO pretty hard before the install. Defender is one of the things one would need to get rid of first, less black screens without it.

[Aiek]

8 hours ago, D.Draker said:

I'm just afraid Ryzen will do the same as Kaby, and the USB3 board, I already have it, it's a bit different, but with that exact chip.

it wont, never did for me (i couldnt find anyone with this problem btw, maybe it is a thing on AM5, however my job will never pay me enough to buy an AM5 motherboard or a  ryzen 7th gen cpu )

- Does your Ryzen with win7 go into the idle 800MHZ mode, or whatever the lowest state?
no, heres is a screenshot from task manager

btw if you wanna ask some more questions about how my ryzen system runs with old oses, you can always ask them on discord (its on my msfn profile, i also respond faster there)

Edited December 4, 2023 by Aiek

[Aiek]

ive also installed windows xp on my ryzen 7 3700x & x470 system, did it break when i installed onecoreapi? yes

BUT did xp work when there was no onecoreapi? also yes

Edited December 4, 2023 by Aiek