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Mozilla and Firefox has turned into evil and lie to their userbase. Leave it and go for alternatives


Mr.Scienceman2000
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Yeah I know that title is not best in the world, but could not get better one into my head. And now it may feel bit clickbait too

This board has not have yet any topics about Mozilla/Firefox problems and I decided to make one.

This topic purpose is not to shill some firefox alternative like brave or say anything based on gecko engine is bad rather address real problems related Mozilla corporation. I used to be huge firefox fan but lot been going wrong since it:no:.

 

lets start with first and biggest one which is false claims.

Mozilla is not people first not profit like they claim. Mozilla foundation sure exist but behind it is mozilla corporation that does profit with marketing deals and also they laid off 250 developers around same time when Mozilla ceo took himself nice paycheck (someone look article from that since was not able find it on quick search anymore). Also Mozilla pretends to be against Google and care from you privacy BUT website privacy policy says against it.

Quote

Metrics: We may also use cookies, device information, and IP addresses, along with clear GIFs, cookies and third party services to help us understand in the aggregate how users engage with our products, services, communications, websites, online campaigns, snippets, devices, and other platforms. We use:

Google Analytics, which places a cookie on your device, to obtain metrics on how users engage with our websites. This helps us to improve site content.

Convert.com and ShareProgress, which place a cookie on your device, to help us test variations of web content. This helps us offer better web experiences to users.

DoubleClick and Flashtalking, each of which uses a clear GIF on our download Firefox page. This helps us measure the effectiveness of our advertising campaigns.

Yahoo Dot Pixel, which uses JavaScript on our download Firefox page. This helps us measure the effectiveness of our advertising campaigns.

HTTP Referral Data, which may be included with Firefox’s installer, to understand the website domain or advertising campaign that referred you to our download page. This information helps us understand the effectiveness of our advertising campaigns and improve them.

Other metrics tools from time to time, on an experimental basis. For example, we may do this to help evaluate a new metrics tool, or test existing metrics collection.

Fraud Prevention: Mozilla has implemented third-party technology, Google’s Invisible reCAPTCHA, that operates in the background on some of our websites in order to identify fraudulent activity. Use of the Invisible reCAPTCHA is governed by the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

so they implemented google invisible recaptcha and google and yahoo trackers on their site. That is caring from privacy right? Also firefox uses google as default search engine

 

Now lets move to browser itself. I wont put tons of stuff here but if someone wants read more Spyware watchdog got good article about it.

First issue is Firefox uses google analytics on browser (source) and developers ignored that saying they wont use it for datamining. Sure I trust google about not doing it.

Then there is pocket feature which according privacy policy does allow insert personalised ads into stories saved to pocket. Also you need firefox account to use it.

Then there is Google safebrowsing which make browser to download address database from Google servers. I explained on other thread why that feature is useless in real life  and is only privacy threat.

Also Firefox advertises addons during browsing by default

By default Mozilla collects telemetry from following

Quote

Performing a search

Clicking a top site item

Deleting an item from history

Blocking a site

Bookmarking a link

Removing a bookmark from a link

Opening a link in a new window

Opening a link in a new private window

Opening the new tab preferences pane

Closing the new tab preferences pane

Acknowledging a section disclaimer

Adding or editing a new TopSite

Requesting a custom screenshot preview

Session end

Impression stats

Click/block/save_to_pocket ping

Addon initialization failure

Domain affinity calculation

I think there is enough from Mozilla  privacy issues and time to move for other issues.

First one is addon blocking which Mozilla admit they wont care from your choice and want "protect" you https://extensionworkshop.com/documentation/publish/add-ons-blocking-process/

Quote

Security Over Choice

When deciding whether to block an add-on from running in Firefox, we ask whether the risk is so great that it outweighs the user’s choice to install the software, the utility it provides, as well as the developer’s freedom to distribute and control their software. If we encounter a situation where we cannot make a clear-cut decision, we will err on the side of security to protect the user.

 

Then there was dropping XUL addons in favor of Webextensions. Problem with webextensions is they are way more limited than XUL addons were. Take example from Classic theme restorer developer if wont believe my word on it

Quote

The only reason why CTR does not work in Firefox 57+ is Mozillas decision to take away add-ons almighty power over the browser, not because add-on features are incompatible to modern techniques or Firefox 57+ in general. A simple CSS loader would allow over 80% of CTfRs features to be available for Firefox 57+. This is proven by all userChrome.css/userContent.css tweaks available here.

again they want limit what you can do and are ready to ignore what users want.

 

Then there is issues related UI changes. Mozilla has been renewing firefox UI multiple times without giving option to go back old look. I absolutely hate new Bloatfox theme. It takes too much screen space for no good reason and removal of most icons on menu makes it harder to navigate. Before you were able to fix it but Mozilla killed XUL addons so not  anymore

Sure someone will pull you can disable them but why bother fixing something that turns more spyware on every update?

Some alternatives I would recommend:

Palemoon based browsers. I cannot recommend using vanilla Palemoon for multiple reasons that most here likely know but codebase of browser is solid and Newmoon/Mypal on Windows and webbrowser on linux. Those are best if you need lightweight browser without webrtc or other. Those forks also runs down to vanilla Windows XP

Also Basilik is pretty good browser.

I recommend disable addon blocklist on both of those

If you really want to use latest Firefox based browser: Librewolf which is firefox with telemetry and propieraty blobs removed. Problem with that is they are depent on Mozilla and code grows all the time so it will be uphill battle

If you want to use latest Chromium based browser Ungoogled Chromium which removes Google stuff from Chromium. That like librewolf is they are in uphill battle

If you want to use chromium on XP: I cannot say anything here since only used goanna based browsers so @ArcticFoxieand @Dixel who got experience can help me out with this one

Honorable Mention:

Seamonkey I have been using that for while on linux to see how good it is and have to say it is very decent browser and not done by paid Mozilla Employees. It UI makes sense, support classic addons and theming. If you plan use it please follow mitigation guide for maxium privacy. That is way better than firefox on default options, but I recommend still do tweaks

 

Browsers I cannot recommend at all.

Waterfox: While it claims to support your privacy it spies on you as much or more as firefox and if that wont convince you it was sold to advertising company

Brave: That gotta be absolutely worst out of all options analysis. It has fake cryptocurrency system that needs personal information, it got lot of telemetry, it offers it own "privacy respecting ad platform" which injects ads into webpage. Also it is shilled way too often and you should NEVER trust shilled products.

 

If you want secure and private pick one that does actually well pick one that is as minimal as can and select your own addon set (tampermonkey, umatrix, ublock origin, noscript, decentraliseye) and you got pretty good setup

 

Please add any findings or alternatives I missed

 

 

 

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
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  • Mr.Scienceman2000 changed the title to Problems with Firefox and Mozilla and how to mitigate them/alternatives

I instead as someone has already noted in favor of Firefox.:)
To eliminate or mitigate the problems of privacy it is enough to use the optimal Arkenfox user.js:

 

https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js/blob/master/user.js

For those who want to do everything by themselves and do not push in an extreme way the search for privacy, some ideas in the excellent article below:

https://chrisx.xyz/blog/yet-another-firefox-hardening-guide/

Pale Moon is not able to reach the security of Firefox, think of Total Cookie Protection:

https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2021/02/23/total-cookie-protection/

o Site Isolation = Fission:

https://www.ghacks.net/2021/11/02/firefox-94-0-release-here-is-what-is-new-and-changed/

 

By the way who uses Firefox 94.x especially in a Linux OS should check the actual enabling of Fission:

"fission.autostart" set to true

"gfx.webrender.all" set to true

As I've already written I don't think Firefox is the safest browser in a modern Windows OS, but this is OT with the topic of the excellent thread opened by

@Mr.Scienceman2000

Edited by Sampei.Nihira
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13 minutes ago, Sampei.Nihira said:

I instead as someone has already noted in favor of Firefox.:)
To eliminate or mitigate the problems of privacy it is enough to use the optimal Arkenfox user.js:

https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js/blob/master/user.js

I forget to link that file and good that you added to that mitigate part but I still stay behind this

1 hour ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

Sure someone will pull you can disable them but why bother fixing something that turns more spyware on every update?

Mozilla had made me mad enough already. And feels pointless to even see any effort with it anymore...well librewolf was recommend by me for reason

18 minutes ago, Sampei.Nihira said:

Pale Moon is not able to reach the security of Firefox, think of Total Cookie Protection:

https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2021/02/23/total-cookie-protection/

o Site Isolation = Fission:

https://www.ghacks.net/2021/11/02/firefox-94-0-release-here-is-what-is-new-and-changed/

security is sorta two pipe thing to me (means it is sorta both). More simple and smaller codebase and less features increases security too. Palemoon lacks webrtc and EME for example that are commonly used on exploting along with WASM (palemoon got it on toggle setting tab and no need use about:config) and JS. On other hand memory hardening and isolation increase security but remember that Mozilla previously whitelisted some trackers so I cannot see reason for them not to add backdoor for protection for those trackers.

PS. Fun to actually have some counter arguments with actual arguments. If I would say same on any other place would be eaten alive by mozilla fans

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@Mr.Scienceman2000 , great post , but somehow I think the name isn't too bright to attract the readers. It's not just "problems" , it's the whole browser that is a huge problem itself . Completely sold to yandex , that's why I suggested a more hard (brutal bashing style) approach . Basically, it's a commie browser now . Also , all of it's forks leak data to yandex too ! I'm just wondering why @ArcticFoxie  is still not here, he wrote some marvellous , oustanding (bashing style) posts about the commie firefox . I ask you to join and (maybe) move your posts here . Just made you a compliment again , which you deserved. Well , arcticFoxie , if you won't come here , I shall understand , perhaps you're just afraid of the angry browser fans.

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2 hours ago, Dixel said:

@Mr.Scienceman2000 , great post , but somehow I think the name isn't too bright to attract the readers. It's not just "problems" , it's the whole browser that is a huge problem itself . Completely sold to yandex , that's why I suggested a more hard (brutal bashing style) approach .

give me better title and I will update it

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2 hours ago, Dixel said:

Basically, it's a commie browser now . Also , all of it's forks leak data to yandex too ! I'm just wondering why

I cannot even say who they are with due their holiday shopping guide

Quote

Microsoft does not sell your personal data, which is good.

that is definitely not honest opinion. Microsoft is one of last companies I trust with anything

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6 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:

give me better title and I will update it

Well , it's gotta be short and sweet , yet right to the point .

 

How about : 

1- Firefox is a lying sack of sh** (classics , but won't pass the moderation , I guess)

2- Firefox sold it's soul to the commie devil, get alternatives ASAP ! 

3- Firefox hides the nastiest FSB telemetry under the hood, yet pretends to be "privacy oriented".

4- Firefox will fingerprint the hell out of you and send the results to KGB.

 

No. 2 is pretty close to your current name.

P.S.

Firefox , Palemoon, Mypal, Waterfox and all it's "forks" leak data to MS , Yandex , Amazon , Cloudfare , etc.

They will  fingerprint the hell outta you , even if you have their "privacy resist fingerprinting" on !

See the attached images.

 

Firefox is a lying sack of shit1.jpg

Firefox is a lying sack of shit2.jpg

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2 hours ago, Dixel said:

Well , it's gotta be short and sweet , yet right to the point .

 

How about : 

1- Firefox is a lying sack of sh** (classics , but won't pass the moderation , I guess)

2- Firefox sold it's soul to the commie devil, get alternatives ASAP ! 

3- Firefox hides the nastiest FSB telemetry under the hood, yet pretends to be "privacy oriented".

4- Firefox will fingerprint the hell out of you and send the results to KGB.

I need something someone could search so those wont work. Figured out anyway. But first one would have been but as you said would not pass moderation :buehehe:. Edit I changed name. If this is find by too many people on internet I will get lot new haters. Liked or not that title is still true 

2 hours ago, Dixel said:

Firefox , Palemoon, Mypal, Waterfox and all it's "forks" leak data to MS , Yandex , Amazon , Cloudfare , etc.

 

They will  fingerprint the hell outta you , even if you have their "privacy resist fingerprinting" on !

See the attached images.

 

Firefox is a lying sack of shit1.jpg

Firefox is a lying sack of shit2.jpg

Interesting is my install of Mypal or Webbrowser did not do those requests with either MITMPROXY with snooping cert (decrypts all) or Prcoess hacker. did you mitigate  palememe?

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
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  • Mr.Scienceman2000 changed the title to Mozilla has turned into evil. Mitigate problems or go to alternatives
19 hours ago, UCyborg said:

Besides vanilla Firefox (and supposedly Waterfox as well), what Firefox-derived browsers have multi-account container feature, either built-in or as an extension (doesn't matter)?

Librewolf does as far as I am aware. It is Firefox without all nasty stuff and includes more privacy features like addon firewall (control addon traffic)

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Yeah, just realized yesterday evening I missed it, was too tired to write that I missed it. Still wondering if there is any other XUL addon supporting browser with such functionality.

Funny thing about XUL addons, despite the possibilities, we got some WebExtensions these days that surpass XUL alternatives. Obviously, this is about extensions interacting with web pages, not messing with UI, eg. (Greasemonkey vs Tampermonkey, KeeFox vs Kee, Stylem vs Stylus etc.).

Guess it makes sense since most people are on Chromium, followed by modern Firefox, at least on Windows.

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5 hours ago, UCyborg said:

Yeah, just realized yesterday evening I missed it, was too tired to write that I missed it. Still wondering if there is any other XUL addon supporting browser with such functionality.

as far as I know there are no any XUL enabled browsers that got it. I never used that feature since only logged into one service at the time and when browser closes I clean cookies and other data.

5 hours ago, UCyborg said:

Funny thing about XUL addons, despite the possibilities, we got some WebExtensions these days that surpass XUL alternatives. Obviously, this is about extensions interacting with web pages, not messing with UI, eg. (Greasemonkey vs Tampermonkey, KeeFox vs Kee, Stylem vs Stylus etc.).

but in other hand they limit power of extension for altering browser for you taste. Feels that theming device is dying trend. Windows themes were able to alter icons, background, colors, cursors, sounds freely until XP and on XP needed create graphics for themes but was still possible.

My nokias can do plenty of customisation on colors or even change battery level icon into something stupid if really want that.

Firefox used to be all about customisation.

Nowadays themes usually change few colors and add background graphic and that is all.

Well I guess most users do not care from that anymore and are happy to put up whatever company decides. Well there is always seamonkey that can do better customisation.

What seems strange many ff diehards seems to mock anyone who want to use browser with XUL addons. I can understand some benefit of Webextension but killing them totally was stupid decision.

5 hours ago, UCyborg said:

Guess it makes sense since most people are on Chromium, followed by modern Firefox, at least on Windows.

Biggest reason for me to hate Chromium is not engine itself rather same reason why I really hate Internet Explorer, company behind it tries push their broken standards down everyone throat causing plenty of compability issues.

Many say gecko engine is like internet explorer to support today. No Chromium is Internet Exploiter of this decade. Back in day same was said Netscape/Mozilla just because INTERNET EXPLORER AND IT DEVELOPEMENT TOOLS USED BROKEN STANDARDS. I do not want world with only one browser engine because that point competition has died (what competition though like there has been any actual competition for long long time....)

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
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@Mr.Scienceman2000 , excuse me , but the name is kinda nurdy . Why would you ask me then ? And , most importantly, it doesn't reflect the current (awful) state of things . I think those words " mitigate problems" are giving false hopes to the users . Of course , you may not agree , it's your topic . I see you ignored my discovery with 100% fingerprinting , lemme ask why ? This "problem" cannot be solved , the only solution is to dump this browser. Don't you agree ? But if you know how , do tell.

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16 hours ago, Dixel said:

Don't you agree ? But if you know how , do tell.

I left that since it some are too Mozilla diehards to leave that logo and bloated UI and brand behind, For those it is better to even try fix it if refuse to leave firefox. Believe or not I met too many that refused go away from Firefox no matter what. I even showed them what MITMPROXY showed and they said they got nothing to hide and did not accept any more counter arguments so I ended up fixing browser issues.

Arkenfox user.js file bulk fixes most issues on FF but that is not ok for me.

I personally cannot use Firefox anymore and really hate use when it is only browser loaded to workstation. I guess I am too spoiled for proper system menus, non cluttered UI and other things that I take granted on my personal workstations.

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  • Mr.Scienceman2000 changed the title to Mozilla and Firefox has turned into evil and lie to their userbase. Leave it and go for alternatives

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