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NVDA and Windows 9x


Sergiaws
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I posted about some Retrozilla problems related with the accessibility, but as I could see, the problem is on the screen reader. A person suggested me to use a text to speech application, but I can't use a text to speech system because I can't browse and select text with JAWS 6.20 and Retrozilla. Only think that I can do is saving the page as an html document and open it with Internet Explorer 6. The best screen reader for Windows 9x is JAWS (usually the version 6.20). That version of JAWS haven't any help documentation related with Firefox And JAWS isn't opensource. Consequently, I would know if could be possible port the NVDA screen reader to Windows 9x or create a special screen reader (bassed on NVDA) only for Retrozilla. NVDA is writen in Python. And NVDA 0.6P3 (released around 2009) has some scripts for Firefox. Other remarkable thin is that there are a JAWS 6.20 for Windows 95/98/ME and JAWS 6.20 for Windows NT4/2000/XP. The same happens with JAWS 7.10, but the version for Windows NT systems dropped Windows NT4 and the version for Windows 9x systems dropped Windows 95. I don't know why happens that. If anyone want to help with that, you can download one of the first nvda versions and tell what could be done. Thanks!

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Is there no right mouse click to select text on the screen and copy in WinNT. There should be, then all you have to do is play back the clipboard with the program I suggested. You should reply back in that MSFN topic instead of creating a new topic you know.

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You usually use the mouse to copy the text to the clipboard, but I use shift+arrow keys and ctrl+c. Jaws and NVDA have a special cursor for the web so you can browse the web and copy something of the web to the clipboard, but Jaws 6.20 don't start the web cursor in Retrozilla as well as it works on Internet Explorer 5 or 6. Consequently, I only can use the tab key to browse the web in retrozilla on Windows 98SE and I can't copy the text to the clipboard. Moreover, browsing the web with tab I only see the lincks. I create a new topic because it could be in the future only for NVDA and screen readers for Win9x.

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On 6/27/2020 at 2:09 AM, Goodmaneuver said:

Is there no right mouse click to select text on the screen

Sergiaws, might I recommend that when you create topics, make a mention of your vision situation. Since you do not have a lot of posts here, many members may not be aware of this and would hopefully save others from suggesting things us "seeing" people take for granted that may not be helpful to you. :)

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You said >>The NVDA 0.6P3 requires Python 2.6, and that Python apparently isn't compatible with Windows 98.

It is if you use latest KernelEx. Sometimes programs use a recompiled Python2.6.dll or Python2.7.dll and what often is required is that the Python Dll has to be swapped with the original Python2.6.dll from the Python web site downloads. I assume you cannot use a mouse, I would like to know if you are using WinNt or Win98?

Edited by Goodmaneuver
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I will try next week the NVDA 0.6P3 on Windows 98SE with Kernel EX. But as I could see, the NVDA 2011.1 (one of the last releases for Win2K) couldn't be installed on Win98+Kernel EX. I was thinking on the possibility to install on my PC Windows 98, but I had been using WinXP/7/8/8.1/10 and I like Win98 and 2000. If anyone can, try the NVDA on Win95 with the special Python for Win9X and post the results.

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I tried NVDA 0.6P3 and on WinME, it begins loading announces the intro sound then systematically unloads announcing the exit sound. I think the error is detected in WinSpool.drv but it is hard to narrow down as the program keeps going through to exiting. I tried other versions 2009 and 2010, they start to load then terminate leaving the wave file loaded so it could be my system, though I doubt it.

Edited by Goodmaneuver
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Sorry guys, I forgot to tell something important. Screen readers use a special technology, MSAA.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/winauto/microsoft-active-accessibility

Windows 2000 and later has that technology. I remember that when I find a Windows NT4.0 VM and I ran the JAWS 6.20 setup, it installed me the MSAA. It's possible that you need to install that on Windows 9x, or even download a Setup of JAWS 6.20 and run it.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/confirmation.aspx?id=21596

Unfortunatelly, the pages don't talk about Windows 95, so I don't know if it work with it.

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18 minutes ago, Sergiaws said:

Unfortunatelly, the pages don't talk about Windows 95, so I don't know if it work with it.

This one confirms that MSAA came with Windows 95.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/accessibility/accessibility-legacy

 

BUT this one places it (maybe the current downloadable version?) on Windows 98:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/winauto/microsoft-active-accessibility

or maybe it works but it is not anymore supported (or it was not anymore supported at the time the page was written)

It seems like up to 1.3 was Windows 95 and starting from 2.0 it is later OS:
https://books.google.it/books?id=cf0Hh3soHVUC&pg=PA258&lpg=PA258&dq=msaa+"windows+95"+version+1&source=bl&ots=dRpaAWuLHU&sig=ACfU3U3lHEXYXs4h8tjn9UXMVYwiUJzlUQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGjeDh3L3qAhWKDxQKHWMwC5MQ6AEwAXoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=msaa "windows 95" version 1&f=false

https://web.archive.org/web/19991129040953/http://www.microsoft.com/enable/msaa/download.htm

It has to be seen if the earlier copy of msaardk.exe is the right one:
https://web.archive.org/web/20000819044325/http://www.microsoft.com/enable/download/msaa/msaardk.exe

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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That document apparently was writen in 2003, and extended support for Windows 95 finished in 2002. In that case, NVDA apparently can't be ported to Windows 95. I think the last version of MSAA is 2.0.

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1 hour ago, Sergiaws said:

That document apparently was writen in 2003, and extended support for Windows 95 finished in 2002. In that case, NVDA apparently can't be ported to Windows 95. I think the last version of MSAA is 2.0.

I don't get it.

How are extended support dates related?

From the links I posted, version 2.0 is 98 onwards, but earlier versions are Windows 95.

So, IF the NVDA requires 2.0 OR IF a suitable earlier than 2.0 version is not found THEN it won't work OTHERWISE it may.

Most probably this is last version working with 95:

http://physics.fme.vutbr.cz/sea/download/

http://physics.fme.vutbr.cz/sea/download/win9x/msaardk.exe

jaclaz

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2 hours ago, Sergiaws said:

NVDA is dessigned originally for Windows 2000 and newer, so I don't think that it would work with and older version of MSAA.

I guess we will never know for sure.

Actually it is officially designed for XP and later, and may partially work on Windows 2000:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080916191023/http://www.nvda-project.org/documentation/nvda_0.6p2_userGuide.html#2

Quote

System Requirements

Operating Systems: all flavours of Windows XP and Windows Vista (includes Server operating Systems), may partially work on Windows 2000

Memory: 256 mb or more of RAM

Processor speed: 1.0 ghz or above

What about Fire-Vox/MLFire-Vox?

http://firevox.clcworld.net/

It is an abandoned project:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120301224425/http://visilab.unime.it/~filippo/MLFireVox/MLFireVox.htm

But was seemingly continued in Click/Speak:
http://clickspeak.clcworld.net/features.html

NO idea if it can be made to work on pre-XP and with Retrozilla.

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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