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Jarsin

Windows 98SE SP2 + several unofficial SPs and kernelex, What browser does TLS1.2 with github or sf the right way?

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Hi, I'm stumbled upon this retro stuff, because I noticed, that I was able to start an old Windows XPSP3 32bit. I also got an abandoned Windows XPSP2 x64, that didn't start in August 2015 again after I manipulated a registry entry (Which I don't remember). Then I started to copy the partitions into files with a tool disk2vhd or so, and booted them in virtualbox. I then was curious about windows 98 in virtualbox and read about kernelex 4.5.2 and 4.5.2018.23, sddwin 7beta, Servicepacks 29459 winboard Updatepack 1.2 Win98, sesp2d_de.exe (but on a english system), U98sesp3.exe (v3.64? preferences>ver).

I tried to find a recent browser that can keep up with new standards and current TLS, because many things are downloadable from github or sou8rceforge, but I'm mostly only able to download such files with lynx 2.8.8.01 with openSSL support enabled.

I tried also Midori 5.11 from 2015, it starts, but nothing appears. K-Meleon 75 starts and I can surf, but it crashes on sf or github downloads or if I try to look in preferences.

I got Notepad++ 5.9, Opera 11.64.1403, SeaMonkey  1.1.19, RetroZilla 2.2, Filezilla 3.9.0.1 (latest possible version for me), ccleaner v2.29.1111, clamwin 0.99.4, Clam Sentinel 1.22, f-prot16b, nod32dos and virustotal uploader 2.2 working.

Firefox 23.0 starts, but freezes on loading websites.

I think I didn't get kexfat working(afair?), but installed ntfs and usb support.

I installed some dlls under %windir%\system, like normaliz.zip and pi-ms-win-crt-runtime-lt-1-0, I think, to get filezilla working. Process Explorer v8.52 is working. So I can kill firefox :D

I think, maybe Opera is for me the best solution, but I'm not comfortable with it.

What am I missing, if K-Meleon 75 crashes? Is chromium an option?

Edited by Jarsin

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I believe Chromium is technically an option, but installing it requires blackwingcat's chrome tool and a very early version (so it might not be worth using). An older topic on MSFN mentiond using old chrome on Windows ME with KernelEx + Chrome Tool.

I think I recall jumper mentioning using slimboat (portable edition) on Windows 9x. But, I think it requires kernelex stubs and updated system dll's to work. I've tried using only kernelex 23, and it would only launch for a moment before crashing.

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Hi ~♥Aiko♥Chan♥~, unfortunately SlimBoat (2015) doesn't cope with SourceForge or GitHub Websites and Downloads. SSL/TLS Capabilities of Your Browser User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64) AppleWebKit/534.34 (KHTML, like Gecko) SlimBoat/1.1.54 Chrome/25.0.1364.97 Version/5.1 Safari/534.34

I found an interesting site which shows a matrix of a couple of Browsers(not all).
https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/clients.html
Chrome 30, Firefox 27, Win8, Edge12, Win10, Opera17, Win, Yahoo Slurp 2015, YandexBot Sep20 2014,  Firefox 31.3.0 ESR, Win7,  so Firefox 31.3. ESR, Win7 or Opera 17 would be an option :D. Yandex is maybe a bot crawler like bingbot?

Quote

 

SSL/TLS Capabilities of Your Browser

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64) AppleWebKit/534.34 (KHTML, like Gecko) SlimBoat/1.1.54 Chrome/25.0.1364.97 Version/5.1 Safari/534.34

Protocol Features

Protocols
TLS 1.3No
TLS 1.2No
TLS 1.1No
TLS 1.0Yes*
SSL 3Yes*
SSL 2No

Cipher Suites (in order of preference)

TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA (0x39)  WEAK 256
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA (0x38)  WEAK 256
TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA (0x35)  WEAK 256
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA (0x16)  WEAK 112
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA (0x13)  WEAK 112
TLS_RSA_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA (0xa)  WEAK 112
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA (0x33)  WEAK 128
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA (0x32)  WEAK 128
TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA (0x2f)  WEAK 128
TLS_RSA_WITH_IDEA_CBC_SHA (0x7)  WEAK 128

TLS_RSA_WITH_RC4_128_SHA (0x5)   INSECURE 128
TLS_RSA_WITH_RC4_128_MD5 (0x4)   INSECURE 128
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_DES_CBC_SHA (0x15)   INSECURE 56
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_DES_CBC_SHA (0x12)   INSECURE 56
TLS_RSA_WITH_DES_CBC_SHA (0x9)   INSECURE 56
TLS_DHE_RSA_EXPORT_WITH_DES40_CBC_SHA (0x14)   INSECURE 40
TLS_DHE_DSS_EXPORT_WITH_DES40_CBC_SHA (0x11)   INSECURE 40
TLS_RSA_EXPORT_WITH_DES40_CBC_SHA (0x8)   INSECURE 40
TLS_RSA_EXPORT_WITH_RC2_CBC_40_MD5 (0x6)   INSECURE 40
TLS_RSA_EXPORT_WITH_RC4_40_MD5 (0x3)   INSECURE 40

TLS_EMPTY_RENEGOTIATION_INFO_SCSV (0xff)-

(1) When a browser supports SSL 2, its SSL 2-only suites are shown only on the very first connection to this site. To see the suites, close all browser windows, then open this exact page directly. Don't refresh.

Protocol Details

Server Name Indication (SNI) Yes
Secure Renegotiation Yes
TLS compression No
Session tickets Yes
OCSP stapling No
Signature algorithms -
Named Groups -
Next Protocol Negotiation No
Application Layer Protocol Negotiation No

SSL 2 handshake compatibilityNo

T8FKh95.png

Edited by Jarsin
add image screenshot

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Midori 5.11 would be an option.

 

Quote

SSL/TLS Capabilities of Your Browser
User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/538.15 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.133 Safari/538.15 Midori/0.5

Other User Agents »
Protocol Support
Your user agent has good protocol support.
Your user agent supports TLS 1.2, which is recommended protocol version at the moment.
Logjam Vulnerability
Your user agent is not vulnerable.
For more information about the Logjam attack, please go to weakdh.org.
To test manually, click here. Your user agent is not vulnerable if it fails to connect to the site.
FREAK Vulnerability
Your user agent is not vulnerable.
For more information about the FREAK attack, please go to www.freakattack.com.
To test manually, click here. Your user agent is not vulnerable if it fails to connect to the site.
POODLE Vulnerability
Your user agent is vulnerable. You should disable SSL 3.
For more information about the POODLE attack, please read this blog post.
Protocol Features

Protocols
TLS 1.3    No
TLS 1.2    Yes
TLS 1.1    Yes
TLS 1.0    Yes

SSL 3    Yes
SSL 2    No


Cipher Suites (in order of preference)
TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (0xc02b)   Forward Secrecy    128
TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (0xc02c)   Forward Secrecy    256
TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_GCM_SHA256 (0xc086)   Forward Secrecy    128
TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_GCM_SHA384 (0xc087)   Forward Secrecy    256

TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA (0xc009)  WEAK    128
TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256 (0xc023)  WEAK    128
TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA (0xc00a)  WEAK    256
TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384 (0xc024)  WEAK    256
TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_CBC_SHA256 (0xc072)  WEAK    128
TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_CBC_SHA384 (0xc073)  WEAK    256
TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA (0xc008)  WEAK    112

TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_RC4_128_SHA (0xc007)   INSECURE    128
TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (0xc02f)   Forward Secrecy    128
TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (0xc030)   Forward Secrecy    256
TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_GCM_SHA256 (0xc08a)   Forward Secrecy    128
TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_GCM_SHA384 (0xc08b)   Forward Secrecy    256

TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA (0xc013)  WEAK    128
TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256 (0xc027)  WEAK    128
TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA (0xc014)  WEAK    256
TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384 (0xc028)  WEAK    256
TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_CBC_SHA256 (0xc076)  WEAK    128
TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_CBC_SHA384 (0xc077)  WEAK    256
TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA (0xc012)  WEAK    112

TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_RC4_128_SHA (0xc011)   INSECURE    128
TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (0x9c)  WEAK    128
TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (0x9d)  WEAK    256
TLS_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_GCM_SHA256 (0xc07a)  WEAK    128
TLS_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_GCM_SHA384 (0xc07b)  WEAK    256
TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA (0x2f)  WEAK    128
TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256 (0x3c)  WEAK    128
TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA (0x35)  WEAK    256
TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA256 (0x3d)  WEAK    256
TLS_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_CBC_SHA (0x41)  WEAK    128
TLS_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_CBC_SHA256 (0xba)  WEAK    128
TLS_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_CBC_SHA (0x84)  WEAK    256
TLS_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_CBC_SHA256 (0xc0)  WEAK    256
TLS_RSA_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA (0xa)  WEAK    112

TLS_RSA_WITH_RC4_128_SHA (0x5)   INSECURE    128
TLS_RSA_WITH_RC4_128_MD5 (0x4)   INSECURE    128

TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (0x9e)   Forward Secrecy    128
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (0x9f)   Forward Secrecy    256
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_GCM_SHA256 (0xc07c)   Forward Secrecy    128
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_GCM_SHA384 (0xc07d)   Forward Secrecy    256

TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA (0x33)  WEAK    128
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256 (0x67)  WEAK    128
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA (0x39)  WEAK    256
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA256 (0x6b)  WEAK    256
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_CBC_SHA (0x45)  WEAK    128
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_CBC_SHA256 (0xbe)  WEAK    128
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_CBC_SHA (0x88)  WEAK    256
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_CBC_SHA256 (0xc4)  WEAK    256
TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA (0x16)  WEAK    112

TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (0xa2)   Forward Secrecy2    128
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (0xa3)   Forward Secrecy2    256
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_GCM_SHA256 (0xc080)   Forward Secrecy2    128
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_GCM_SHA384 (0xc081)   Forward Secrecy2    256

TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA (0x32)  WEAK    128
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256 (0x40)  WEAK    128
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA (0x38)  WEAK    256
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA256 (0x6a)  WEAK    256
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_CBC_SHA (0x44)  WEAK    128
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_CBC_SHA256 (0xbd)  WEAK    128
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_CBC_SHA (0x87)  WEAK    256
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_CBC_SHA256 (0xc3)  WEAK    256
TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA (0x13)  WEAK    112

TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_RC4_128_SHA (0x66)   INSECURE    128
(1) When a browser supports SSL 2, its SSL 2-only suites are shown only on the very first connection to this site. To see the suites, close all browser windows, then open this exact page directly. Don't refresh.
(2) Cannot be used for Forward Secrecy because they require DSA keys, which are effectively limited to 1024 bits.

Protocol Details
Server Name Indication (SNI)    Yes
Secure Renegotiation    Yes
TLS compression    No
Session tickets    Yes
OCSP stapling    Yes
Signature algorithms     SHA256/RSA,     SHA256/DSA,     SHA256/ECDSA,     SHA384/RSA,     SHA384/ECDSA,     SHA512/RSA, SHA512/ECDSA,     SHA224/RSA,     SHA224/DSA,     SHA224/ECDSA,     SHA1/RSA,     SHA1/DSA,     SHA1/ECDSA
Named Groups     secp256r1,     secp384r1,     secp521r1
Next Protocol Negotiation    No
Application Layer Protocol Negotiation    No
SSL 2 handshake compatibility    No

Mixed Content Handling

Mixed Content Tests
Images    Passive    Yes
CSS    Active    Yes
Scripts    Active    Yes
XMLHttpRequest    Active    Yes
WebSockets    Active    Test failed
Frames    Active    Yes
(1) These tests might cause a mixed content warning in your browser. That's expected.
(2) If you see a failed test, try to reload the page. If the error persists, please get in touch.
Related Functionality
Upgrade Insecure Requests request header (more info)    No

 

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Okay, I found a special build of K-Meleon Browser 74 for Windows 2000. I will  try to use it with kernelex on Windows 98, because it would fit my needs.
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:38.9) Gecko/20140105 K-Meleon/74.0

0BIsr2F.png

elAGgLC.pngXaOLCWO.png

nVxooHQ.png

e7e3acb.png

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Jarsin said:
> was curious about windows 98 in virtualbox and read about kernelex 4.5.2 and 4.5.2018.23,
> sddwin 7beta, Servicepacks 29459 winboard Updatepack 1.2 Win98, sesp2d_de.exe
> (but on a english system), U98sesp3.exe (v3.64? preferences>ver)

So you have win98 (first or SE?) in a virtualbox, with kernelex, and a whole bunch of oter updates.
This starts K-Meleon75? Cool!
I have only kernelex16 or 17, and my most modern running browser is roytam1's special KM-Goanna74 build for native Win2000, and updated TLS1.2. Win98 needs KernelEx-compat set to Win2000.
Downloading from github+SF works fine with it, no prob. Just sadly can use it only as fallback browser, since KG74 is generally very buggy yet on my less-updated 98se, but am sure those bugs are only partly related to the system. The older KM74-gecko had a bunch of 'normal' bugs too, not system related, which were slowly fixed until KM76. KM75 had a couple old bugs too, in younger systems.

With Retrozilla downloads on github+SF are working too, last time I tried, unless that has meanwhile changed again.

Hmm, perhaps I should mention that I'm browsing without javascript whenever possible, otherwise quickly freezing, and of course for security. If that means page elements are hidden, killing styles often makes them visible again.

LOL! I see you found KMG74 already, am just 10 min late :D

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By the way, one of my worst probs with KG74 on 98se is some weird killer bug:
for every single link on a page it seems to wait for something that never happens, and timeout obviously about 0.2sec, and the prob is: all those timeouts are cumulative! My homepage is a local link list, about 200 links, and it takes FOREVER to show up! Even when set offline. Same for webpages, the more links they contain, the longer KG74 "sleeps" before showing anything at all.
Am always wondering: does anyone else have that prob too??
Perhaps on your much more updated machine this doesn't happen...?

Ah right, and my killer bug #2 (there are yet more):
after loading a LOCAL page, and THEN opening a web page, the whole browser crashes! Hmm... or was it only the second webpage? At any rate I must NOT open any local pages when planning to do some WEB surfing afterwards in the same session :(

PS: is that your default useragent?
Windows NT 6.2 is Windows8! So you're running it KM with Win8 compat?
Very interesting.... At the moment I have a fresh backup of my system partition, am starting to feel a bit experimental again, but only in little steps ;-)

Edited by siria

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Hi siria, I think Retrozilla 2.2 will not be able to negotiate 1.2TLS with sourceforge and github nowadays, at least here I'm not able to do so. K-Meleon 74rv:38.9 for winnt 2000 runs stable on my Windows 10, but not on Windows 98. It freezes like I mentioned before for Firefox 23.0.

So I'm not sure what I'm missing, maybe some additional Servicepacks or dll files, that I don't know. Maybe someone can give me a hint. All the acceptabe browsers regarding TLS and certificate handshaking are freezing here and are unuseable, or midori doesn't show up at all.

The only working browser is lynx 2.8.8.01 for me, but e.g. it isn't capebale to use javascript and therefore the SF file browser isn't working. Also it doesn't acceptz copy and paste from other browsers address bar for using deep linked downloads etc.

I'm testing the browsers on my Windows 10 Virtualbox Host-Computer before I decide to try to install and run it on the Windows 98 virtulahost client, because testing all browser versions by trial and error and see THEN, that they don't cope with sourceforge.net and github.com is way too exhausting.

 

 

 

Edited by Jarsin

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> I think Retrozilla 2.2 will not be able to negotiate 1.2TLS with sourceforge
> and github nowadays, at least here I'm not able to do so.

Just a quick little test, those pages are refused in KM1.6 but work OKAY with my Retrozilla:

https://github.com/JustOff/ca-archive/releases
https://sourceforge.net/projects/kmeleon/files/k-meleon-dev/
(SF: and after loading must kill styles to unhide the file list and links)

My current Retrozilla is Roytam's 2.2 version, just because I got it first and it works. Some day will try the original authors younger 2.2 version too. The forum comments sound like it probably contains yet more ciphers, and has that additional aboutconfig trick mentioned above.

> K-Meleon 74rv:38.9 for winnt 2000 runs stable on my Windows 10, but not on Windows 98.
> It freezes like I mentioned before for Firefox 23.0. So I'm not sure what I'm missing,
> maybe some additional Servicepacks or dll files, that I don't know.

You're mainly missing that it's build for Win2000, not Win98 ;-) Luckily it runs anyway, but with some killer bugs. Just curious, have you tried if your better system has the same bugs that I mentioned above?

Freezing in general:
of course I'm blocking javascript wherever possible, or would constantly run into freezes too. Perhaps that's why Lynx works better for you? (PS: where can I get that updated version?)
But even with blocked JS my KM1.6 and KG74 freeze temporarily while loading heavy new pages. Not all, not instantly, only a bit later. There are hints it may be related to loading external resources (images etc.) after the main document was already downloaded and "Ready", just not finished with parsing yet.

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Jarsin said:
> What switches in about:config did you use to connect to sourceforge with retrozilla?

Not really, it always just worked. Just have lots of default stuff tweaked, or rather blocked all sorts of stuff.
Now tested toggling a few settings, trying to get broken ciphers, but no chance ;-)
Perhaps it's the build?
Used retrozilla 2.0 from 20180504 and with 2.2 from 20180708
In 2.0 (FF2) SF Page properties say it's connecting with AES-128-GCM 128bit
Or - could it perhaps be SSE related? Probably not, just riddling.

Thanks for the Lynx link. But am never using setups if avoidable at all, only portable builds. And more doubts because the homepage says it requires msvcr120 now, but last time I tried that didn't run in my OS yet. Oh well, may try it in the future perhaps, when having more time.

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For the firefox builds I found an interesting chart on wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_version_history#Release_compatibility

v2J6bAb.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome#Compatibility
 

Operating system: Latest version, Support status

Windows7 and later: 78, 2009–

XP and Vista: 49, 2008–2016


Unfortunately, there is no list with OS compatibility for Opera, at least I didn't find it.

https://help.opera.com/en/operas-archived-history/
https://help.opera.com/en/opera-version-history/

But I can say, that I achieved to install Opera 11.64 by using kernelex, and 12.02 by following the advice on  http://kernelex.sourceforge.net/wiki/Opera . I then managed to unzip 12.18 and copy it to the 12.02 folder by saving a hand full of dlls, e.g. opera.dll from 12.02 and get it running. I didn't experiment with that method on other 12.10+ versions.

11.00 (15-Dec-2010 20:51) - 12.18 (15-Feb-2016 11:21) 2016!
https://get.geo.opera.com/pub/opera/win/

15.0.1147.130 (01-Jul-2013 15:18)
65.0.3467.72 (12-Dec-2019 13:52)
https://get.geo.opera.com/pub/opera/desktop/

custom/ballot
10.10 (18-Feb-2010 13:23) - 12.15 (03-Apr-2013 13:27) - 18.0.1284.49 (18-Nov-2013 18:03)
https://get.geo.opera.com/pub/opera/custom/ballot/

Edited by Jarsin
added chrome

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The 12.18 files do not serve any added feature over 12.02 unfortunately. I found for a basic build Opera 12.02 may be better with KernelEx 4.5.1. My idea, 4.5.110 commonly known as 4.5.1 worked well with FF3.6.28 but on later versions did not transfer any data. 4.5.2 or 4.5.120 full name worked up to FF9 just. The freezing will be the TCP/IP not transferring, by turning off JavaScript it makes the pages less huge to render and could be coincidental to not freezing. The glyphs do not always show with latter FF, it all adds up to not enough resources thrown into 4.5.2 to make them work IMO. I have fooled around with buffer sizes from within the omni.ja and it is not only the transfer freezing it all has to integrate with the OS properly. YouTube would play for up to 4 minutes approximately before freezing. If on auto-play then it was OK if video changed within the 4 minutes otherwise it froze. Once a buffer is near full a new allocation would have to be made with the video play back and eventually the original buffer will need to be deleted. Or a couple of FIFO buffers might be OK, one for current video another for new video then back to original when next video is selected. Presto 2 engine was brilliant for its time, YouTube still plays but not all videos now, and is still a good email client. FF caterers for many platforms and therefore has a lot of overheads that are not used. I have upped the size of the KernelEx stack size in CurrentControlSet/Control/MprServices, it seemed to be better with CometBird.

Edited by Goodmaneuver
Removed shearing effect because it must have been different settings. did not occur on newer builds & added CometBird
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