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waltah

Am I nuts? SSD, 530s, XP SP3 no go

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Small SSDs are so cheap I thought one would be an interesting upgrade on my 'daily driver xp sp3 Dell 530s.   Not so ...

The machine is SATA so this should be plug/play ... right?   Nope ...

BIOS (up to date) detects the drive correctly.  FDISK finds three partitions 1 & 3 are small, non-DOS.  2 is most of the drive, DOS.  Reallocate to one primary DOS partition, FAT-32.  (Like my real HDD for this machine.)  Formats fine.   Start to load XP from CD, it goes through the loading of files, etc. then crashes as soon as it touches the disk.  "SESSION3" and a lot more stuff. The long code begins 0X20006F and the rest is 0X000000. 

The error message can be found with a web search but basically tells you what the text on the screen says "Something is wrong with your hardware.  Take out any device you just installed and try again."   Self explanatory but taking out my new drive isn't actually a solution to the problem of installing a new drive.

More data to further confuse the picture.

1. I installed XP successfully using a Dell Dimension 2400.  It runs FINE on that machine.   I installed it on a total of five SSDs:  Three were 2Gb ones -- too small for any more than a demo, but useful for that, I thought.   The FIRST one of those actually came up fine on the 530s -- but I have mislaid that one.  (Dummy ...)

I also installed it on a couple of 16 Gb ssd's with the same (failure) result.   All but one of the 16's were APACER, the odd one was SANYO, I believe.  

2. For the fun of it I tried booting up one of the 2 Gb drives without doing anything to it:  It came up, displayed an XP black screen, then went to a Windows Embedded logo, and finally to a hospital logon screen, which -- since I have no password -- was the end of the line.  And probably wouldn't have gone anywhere interesting anyhow since it knew nothing of my keyboard or mouse. 

But what this says is that there's nothing inherently wrong with either the drives OR the Dell 530s. 

I have looked pretty broadly for more ideas, others who might have had this problem, etc., but no luck.  Since the XP install causes an upchuck on the 530s I can do nothing more there.  I can try to install the Dell 530 drivers on the SSD system running on the 2400: Often you can get away with that and at least the chipset and IDE ones might make a difference. 

Anyone got any more ideas?  I've gotten more good advice on MSFN than all the rest together, so I thought it worth trying ...  THANKS!

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why donot you buy a big ssd like 120GB Samsung Evo or kingstone

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1 hour ago, Dibya said:

why donot you buy a big ssd like 120GB Samsung Evo or kingstone

Are you trying to make an example of the kind of support/advice that can be easily found outside MSFN? :unsure:

@waltah

From what you describe it seems like a driver issue , or maybe a timing problem.

Since you are using a FAT32 volume anyway, I would try (on a 16 Gb SSD) to attempt installing the XP from DOS (actual DOS) via WINNT.EXE, so that we remove one of the variables (the CD loading), see (only seemingly unrelated):

Method description (via Wayback Machine):

http://web.archive.org/web/20080302101935/http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=16713
 

Also are you sure that the (I believe needed) SATA drivers are integrated into the source? (or are you installing in IDE compatibility mode? For the sake of testing I would try a surely UNtouched source, even if it doesn't actually install it may porovide some hint on where the process has issue).

jaclaz


 


 


 

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No Jaclaz , I wish to know what is the benefit .

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29 minutes ago, Dibya said:

No Jaclaz , I wish to know what is the benefit .

The benefit of what? :dubbio:

The OP has a given PC and a given type/model of SSD's (of limited size).

He has issues with the specific install (though he succeeded with similar hardware).

You posted a oneliner suggesting him to buy another (bigger sized) SSD, something that seemingly doesn't address the base questions:

1) WHY the setup doesn't work?

2) HOW can I try to find what is the issue? (and hopefully solve it)

Of course similar advice can be found all over the internet, typically, still one-liners:

1) buy something else
2) that is not possible
3) upgrade your (hardware, OS, software, whatever) to a newer version

etc.

And this right after the OP praised the MSFN forum for providing "more good advice" than the rest ... :whistle:

jaclaz


 

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1 hour ago, jaclaz said:

The benefit of what? :dubbio:

The OP has a given PC and a given type/model of SSD's (of limited size).

He has issues with the specific install (though he succeeded with similar hardware).

You posted a oneliner suggesting him to buy another (bigger sized) SSD, something that seemingly doesn't address the base questions:

1) WHY the setup doesn't work?

2) HOW can I try to find what is the issue? (and hopefully solve it)

Of course similar advice can be found all over the internet, typically, still one-liners:

1) buy something else
2) that is not possible
3) upgrade your (hardware, OS, software, whatever) to a newer version

etc.

And this right after the OP praised the MSFN forum for providing "more good advice" than the rest ... :whistle:

jaclaz


 

I donot lets go i donot want to argue . 2gb HDD i cannot use under nt 4 here the matter is XP (Quite a 4 time disk space requirement )

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4 hours ago, 2635599 said:

unless you're running a modified xp it will not run on sata, or at least xp is not designed for sata.

XP SP3 does run on SATA all right! You've got to give it a driver by slipstreaming or F6 to install it on SATA, but that's very old news. This machine I'm posting from is SATA-only and I'm on XP SP3 booted from an SSD (viz. a 40GB FAT-32 partition of an 120 GB OCZ VERTEX3 SATA 6Gb/s on an Intel Core i7 3770K powered Asus P8Z68-V LX).

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THANKS to all for advice.

XP SP3 does indeed run SATA just fine. THIS (Dell 530s) machine has done it for several years on a WD SATA HDD. I installed this system from the XP Pro SP3 CD without any updates or added files; it came right up and has run without problems. Further, I can use that same disk to install XP SP3 on a Dell 2400 on a SATA ->SSD<-. And that runs fine (for tests -- an hour or so) on that machine. When I try to either install on that machine and port the drive here OR install on that SSD on this machine I get a BSOD the instant the hardware touches the drive.

HOWEVER: I can plug in the SSD with the installed XP system as the slave drive on the 530s, can then look at its files, copy them, etc., without error.

I think the fact that I cannot port a working SSD system from the 2400 to this (530s) machine without getting what looks like exactly the same error eliminates the install from CD question. Sure a system genned on a 2400 might not work right on a 530s but it ought to come up a bit before failing.

I can read the BSOD during the install: It's the message I (inaccurately) quoted above that winds up saying 'take out any new hardware and try again.' The one that occurs when I port what should be a bootable system is just a flash of blue -- can't read anything. Then it goes to a generic 'we're just d*** sorry' and 'if this is the first time, try again.'

The only hardware oddity I know about is that the 530s is a multiprocessor machine running single processor (in BIOS).

My hope was to clone this system onto the 16 Gb SSD. I'd have to do a lot of pruning but it could be done without too much pain if I could leave the WD HDD spinning and just switch plugs so the project could go one step at a time over a month or two. The fresh install was intended just as a proof of concept -- which failed.

I thought I was just testing drives but since I got the same failure with two different makes and two different sizes and they all work on the 2400, it seems to be the 530s.

I chose this route because I don't buy multi-hundred dollar items like a new larger SSD that would come with a guarantee of working. My wife gets new computers but hers are laptops and that's about all we can afford. If I can make it work on a 16 Gb used drive, then maybe someday I would upgrade to a larger new drive -- SSDs wear out, after all, and these are under $10 each because they're used -- but I'm not starting there.

Another way to go is to make THIS machine into a standby and do a fresh install on what is now my standby machine -- another Dell, a 3000 or 4600, I think. That's a pretty big job since I'll have to switch back and forth between machines daily until there's enough on the 'new' machine to transition but it might be the most practical approach. However Jaclaz and others have given me some things to think about first.

This (from jaclaz) made me LOL:

"1) buy something else
2) that is not possible
3) upgrade your (hardware, OS, software, whatever) to a newer version"

This is ABSOLUTELY the generic one-size-fits-all advice from the 'net!

Anyway, I tend to suspect a 530s timing issue -- but if so I'd expect to find something on the web -- especially on the Dell site. I cannot be the only idio ... I mean, semi-geek, to try a solid state drive on the 530s with XP.

Of course if I had started out with a fresh install on another machine I might be done by now -- but I wouldn't have learned anything much.

Again, thanks to all!

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The Dell 530s has na ICH9... So it should work. Then again, life's full of things that should but don't, so I suggest you go to Fernando's forum, grab the driver he recommends (preferably his modded version) and update your intel SATA driver, before trying once again. You obviously have a sort-of working driver already, but maybe a slightly later version might like your SSD some more... BTW, which SSD (maker and model) is it exactly? And if it was bought used, why didn't you zero it out fully, before reusing, if I may so ask?

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Wanna run XP on sata ? Right things here

Driver pack base :: http://driverpacks.net/applications/driverpacks-base/10.06http://driverpacks.net/applications/driverpacks-base/10.06

Driver pack masstorage updated by me :: http://forum.driverpacks.net/viewtopic.php?pid=59147#p59147

or grab nlite and goto winraid forum they have latest drivers

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@waltah

Another possibility is to attempt (since you have it working on another machine) to attempt a move:

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/moving_xp.html

Still the suggestion to use Fernando's latest drivers is a good one, and - besides - if your BIOS allows "IDE Compatibility mode", installing the XP without any SATA driver and "switching" to them later is possible, not easy-peasy but possible:
 

jaclaz

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22 hours ago, dencorso said:

[...] I suggest you go to Fernando's forum [...]

12 hours ago, Dibya said:

[...] goto winraid forum [...]

9 hours ago, jaclaz said:

Still the suggestion to use Fernando's latest drivers is a good one [...]

Here's the <link> to get there, just in case you don't have it handy. :yes:

Also, do, please, answer my two questions quoted below:

22 hours ago, dencorso said:

BTW, which SSD (maker and model) is it exactly? 
And if it was bought used, why didn't you zero it out fully, before reusing, if I may so ask?

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On venerdì 24 febbraio 2017 at 0:46 PM, Dibya said:

2gb HDD i cannot use under nt 4 here the matter is XP (Quite a 4 time disk space requirement )

As a side-side note I have run NT 4.00 for years on 2.1 Gb disks just fine (and they were the fourth upgrade, starting from 300 Mb. then 500 Mb and then 1.2 Gb).

A typical NT 4.00 installation is/was around 150 or 180 Mb, HECK! with just removing the help files and a bunch of unneeded stuff I had it running off ZIP disks.

Windows 2000 install grew to around 650 Mb (triple) and XP as well almost tripled that with a standard install size of around 1.5 Gb, so roughly XP is 9 (nine) times the size of NT 4.00, but a not too reduced system can fit into 500-800 Mb, maybe 1 Gb, so a 2GB SSD for just the system and a few programs (with data and possibly large programs on another mass storage device) is IMHO still adequate.  
 

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11 hours ago, jaclaz said:

As a side-side note I have run NT 4.00 for years on 2.1 Gb disks just fine (and they were the fourth upgrade, starting from 300 Mb. then 500 Mb and then 1.2 Gb).

A typical NT 4.00 installation is/was around 150 or 180 Mb, HECK! with just removing the help files and a bunch of unneeded stuff I had it running off ZIP disks.

Windows 2000 install grew to around 650 Mb (triple) and XP as well almost tripled that with a standard install size of around 1.5 Gb, so roughly XP is 9 (nine) times the size of NT 4.00, but a not too reduced system can fit into 500-800 Mb, maybe 1 Gb, so a 2GB SSD for just the system and a few programs (with data and possibly large programs on another mass storage device) is IMHO still adequate.  
 

nt 4.0 from floppy drive?

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3 hours ago, Dibya said:

nt 4.0 from floppy drive?

Not really a "floppy".

Once upon a time, we are talking more than 20 years ago, the SCSI bus/protocol existed, which was at the time the fastest available (usually through an add-on card, typically Adaptec) for hard disks, and among the SCSI devices, there were SCSI ZIP drives and disks, 100 Mb in size, JFYI:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_drive

https://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/zip/zip-1.html

jaclaz
 

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