Booting DOS 7.1 on system with 4 gb ram (not enough for Smartdrive?)

[Nomen]

How exactly do I construct the autoexec and config.sys for DOS 7.1 booting on a system with 4 gb ram so that I don't get the message that there is "not enough XMS memory for Smartdrive" because what I normally have in those startup files isin't working. If I recall correctly, according to the mem command DOS isin't detecting or hasn't allocated any XMS memory.

If this involves the use of any custom / modded himem.sys or emm386.exe, then naturally I'm going to need the details...

[dencorso]

Try using  /NUMHANDLES=80 option for himem.sys and rem out the emm386.exe. That ought to get your machine booting.

Afterwards you may find a way to put emm386.exe back.

[Nomen]

DOS boots fine with emm386. It's just that smartdrv.exe isin't loaded because there is, apparently, no available XMS memory. This is what's in my autoexec.bat:

LH C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE A- B- C+ /V 4096 4096 /E:8192 /B:8192

And this is in my config.sys:

DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS /verbose

DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS VERBOSE

DOS=HIGH,UMB,NOAUTO

BUFFERSHIGH=50,0

FILESHIGH=50

STACKSHIGH=32,512

SWITCHES /F /W

BREAK=ON

Does emm386.exe have problems detecting / allocating XMS memory when a system has 4 gb ram?

[Nomen]

Replaced himem.sys with himemx. This did not work:

DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEMX.EXE/X2MAX32

But this did:

DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEMX.EXE /MAX=512000

Smartdrive now loads and can see / use some XMS ram. And let me tell you - when you're installing XP from a CD copied to a source directory on a FAT32 hard drive and installing it on the same drive, you really do need smartdrive running. Prior to fixing this, I let the install run for 3 hours - and it looked like the install had hung. Every time I restarted and tried resuming the install, XP said it couldn't find the EULA and couldn't go any further.

[jaclaz]

Many years have passed:

http://www.911cd.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=16713

and my memory is not as good as it used to be, but at the time SMARTDRV was used without EMM386 or HIMEM.

 

I mean, what happens on your machine without any config.sys nor autoexec.bat, simply running SMARTDRV on command line?

 

I want to understand if it is needed to amend/integrate that set of instructions for people having a large amount of RAM to use Himemx.

 

jaclaz 

[Nomen]

> what happens on your machine without any config.sys nor autoexec.bat,

> simply running SMARTDRV on command line?

Starting the system in question without any config.sys (but with smartdrv in the autoexec.bat - as the only active line in that file) does not work. Smartdrv says it's can't load because the XMS driver (himem.sys) is not loaded.

[jaclaz]

> what happens on your machine without any config.sys nor autoexec.bat,

> simply running SMARTDRV on command line?

Starting the system in question without any config.sys (but with smartdrv in the autoexec.bat - as the only active line in that file) does not work. Smartdrv says it's can't load because the XMS driver (himem.sys) is not loaded.

I understand, but the line in autoexec.bat is just "C:\dos\smartdrv.exe" or is it:

LH C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE A- B- C+ /V 4096 4096 /E:8192 /B:8192

(the LH implies that EMM386 or similar is loaded successfully, AFAICR)

 

jaclaz

[Nomen]

During previous attempts I had removed the load-high, so that line was this:

C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE A- B- C+ /V 4096 4096 /E:8192 /B:8192

But as one final test, I removed the autoexec.bat completely and booted into dos with no config.sys or autoexec.bat. Then I executed the command smartdrv (with no arguments) from the dos prompt, and AGAIN was told that smartdrive can't load because the XMS driver himem.sys is not loaded and I should check config.sys for device=himem.sys.

I haven't searched the web for this for any authoritative confirmation - but is this fact (that DOS 7.1 smartdrv.exe must have XMS memory available to it, which means himem.sys must be used) not known to us?

Edited August 10, 2015 by Nomen

[jaclaz]

I haven't searched the web for this for any authoritative confirmation - but is this fact (that DOS 7.1 smartdrv.exe must have XMS memory available to it, which means himem.sys must be used) not known to us?

Well this is exactly the doubt, as said at the time of the referenced experiments it was not needed, but then again it may be needed in conjunction with 4 Gb (or say more than 2 Gb) RAM, surely at the time of that experiment I had either 512 Mb or 1 Gb on the test machine (cannot obviously say what the OPìs machine  had).

 

As well it is possible that what creates the issue is the set of parameters you were using "A- B- C+ /V 4096 4096 /E:8192 /B:8192" while a plain running of SMARTDRV would work nonetheless

 

jaclaz

[Nomen]

My last test (if you read my previous post) was to invoke smartdrv from the command prompt with no arguments. I got the same message that it can't load because the XMS driver himem.sys is not loaded. That message must be built into smartdrv.exe.

I was just doing web searches for combinations of smartdrive, smartdrv, xms, himem.sys, and get very little, even when doing google search on site:microsoft.com. One thing I did come across was this:

ftp.microsoft.com/MISC1/peropsys/WINDOWS/KB/Q85/4/24.TXT

It should be easy enough for anyone with a PC with 4 gb ram and a floppy drive to create a DOS 7.1 boot floppy with smartdrv.exe on it and see if you get the same thing I do.


But I'm not able to bring up anything from the ftp.microsoft.com server, not even when log in using an FTP client. And I can't find any archive of that "peropsys" folder.

[dencorso]

Try using  /NUMHANDLES=80 option for himem.sys

 

Himem is probably running out of handles.

[Nomen]

While we're on the subject - some quotes from http://www.programdoc.com/1017_4787_1.htm here:

============
"The script to get the setup started works but immediately before the file copy starts in earnest (it has copied the udb file) setup stops with a heap of disk activity lasting several hours. Setup does eventually continue and complete correctly. Is the an entry in the unattend file to skip disk checks or do a quick format perhaps? or am I missing something else?"

"The short answer is that you need to load smartdrv. This "feature" was introduced in Windows XP"

"smartdrv.exe as the setup-from-DOS 'feature' was introduced in NT4"

"Using smartdrv.exe always made it faster. But you could do an NT or 2k install without smartdrv and only pay a penalty of a few extra minutes. Starting with XP, that penalty increased to hours. Thus the need for (?). The XP (and Server 2003) winnt.exe performs a tremendous number of tiny writes. The NT (and 2k) winnt.exe does not."
=================

By all indications, DOS 7.1 himem.sys should be compatible with 4 gb ram, but all I can find on that topic is unsubstantiated comments that DOS (or himem, or smartdrv.exe) has problems with more than 2 gb ram:

https://community.landesk.com/support/message/34771

I don't think this helps to explain anything here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/95555

[rloew]

@dencorso: Don't waste your breath. None of them are listening. They will find out the hard way.

[jaclaz]

@dencorso: Don't waste your breath. None of them are listening. They will find out the hard way.

Thank you for the indirect and totally gratuitous appreciation, that was very kind of you.

 

Actually I am all ears though my interest is limited to find out if there is the need to amend/integrate/modify the info on the given thread:

 http://www.911cd.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=16713

though nowadays it is not a commonly used method to install XP, but I would have liked to provide EXACT information, i.e. what exactly is needed and when (when more than 2 Gb, more than 3 Gb, more than 4 GB, etc.) an additional memory manager is actually needed or a config.sys needs to be added and with which commands.

 

And no, most probably I will never find out (neither the soft nor the hard way), as this is mainly an S.E.P.,  unless you will exceptionally descend from your throne and talk to us commoners, spreading your wisdom among the people.

 

jaclaz

Edited August 11, 2015 by jaclaz

[Nomen]

> And no, most probably I will never find out

Jaclaz - do you not have a PC with 4 gb with a floppy drive? That's all you need to find out yourself by booting DOS 7.1 from a floppy and seeing if you can load smartdrv with the regular himem.sys (and any suggested switches).

The system I was working with is now at another location, but later today I will be able to test numhandles on several different machines with various amounts of ram.

Regarding the Numhandles argument - after looking through the results of many web searches, I can find:

- no authoritative explanation from any source as to what NUMHANDLES is for, what it does, when to use it, etc, and

- no explanation as to how NUMHANDLES affects or alters himem.sys's ability to provide XMS memory to applications such as smartdrv.exe, especially in situations when a system has a large amount of installed ram.