How to repair the BOOTSECTOR of a FAT32X active partition?

[Tripredacus]

Well since your system isn't untouched, the fact your settings are incorrect is because of one of these two issues:

1. You fiddled with the BCD.

2. The OEM uses some non-standard way to run recovery.

3. There is always something else possible.

You can see all of Reagentc switches with /?

While it is normal to see the winre.wim in C:\Windows\System32\Recovery, the one to actually use in booting is typically in the recovery partition. So I'd guess that your manufacturer is either using a 3rd party tool, or some in-house method of handling recovery, rather than using the official Microsoft guidance. For example, even your reagentc /info data is lacking...

Windows RE staged should be 1 not 0

Setup enabled should be 1 not 0

WinRE.WIM directory should have a path

Setup Files should have a path

That path is the same as the one in Recovery Environment.

But since you are back to working, I wouldn't worry about going about and fixing (breaking) it now. It may be by design as not everyone does it the same way.

[jaclaz]

How could I see some kind of a help list of all those Apps/commands available (in the Sys32 folder) in the cmd console?

You cannot.

You can type one by one all commands with the /h or -h switch, but since not all commands use this convention, doing it in a batch would be EXTREMELY dangerous/and or pointless (and there is not an easy way AFAICR to find out if a .exe is a command line app or a GUI one and if it supports a /h switch).

BTW, since the issue was the bootsector, and now the Recovery is working for you, leave the \boot\BCD alone, it is unprobable that something is broken in two places (and if it now works, it means that the BCD is OK, if it is used, if I get it right you have not the "HP specific" MBR - please read as "press F11", but the "generic" Vista /7 one - please read as "press F8" ).

Some info on the "generic" recovery partition feature is given here:

jaclaz

[DiracDeBroglie]

Jaclaz, I read the links you forwarded me, more specifically those links:

http://thestarman.narod.ru/asm/mbr/MSWIN41.htm

http://thestarman.narod.ru/asm/mbr/ntFAT32BR.htm

http://thestarman.narod.ru/asm/mbr/FAT32brcomp.htm

Thanks for the links by the way.

However, the pages of those links talk about an extra sector being added, sector 12, when a Win98 FAT32 partition is converted by Win2K or XP. But nowhere on those pages it is explicitly mentioned that sector 2 is not used or interpreted anymore after XP conversion (or I must've missed it in the text). That is why I got confused a bit and thought for a while that there were 4 sectors involved in the booting of a FAT32 partition under Win2K and higher.

Especially on the page http://thestarman.narod.ru/asm/mbr/FAT32brcomp.htm , sector 2 before and after XP conversion remains the same; so tacitly I assumed sector 2 was stil involved but now I realize that sector 2 is still coded with old code from Win98. On the other hand, on my FAT32 partition sector 2 is completely zeroed, empty, and is lacking the RRaa at the beginning; that is clearly visible in the Tiny Hexer pictures of mine; so I can see sector 2 cannot be part of any bootsector sequence.

Thanks,

j

[jaclaz]

On the other hand, on my FAT32 partition sector 2 is completely zeroed, empty, and is lacking the RRaa at the beginning; that is clearly visible in the Tiny Hexer pictures of mine; so I can see sector 2 cannot be part of any bootsector sequence.

Yep .

See here:

http://thestarman.narod.ru/asm/mbr/MSWIN41.htm

7D00 E9FD02 JMP 8000 ; Jump to the code in 3rd sector.

and here:

http://thestarman.narod.ru/asm/mbr/ntFAT32BR.htm

7CB5 E94803 JMP 8000 ; Jump to new code loaded from 13th sector of Boot Record.

jaclaz

[DiracDeBroglie]

Well, if you can interpred as a human being directly HEX code, great for you! But that is not the case with me, I have to stick to something that readable by average human beings.

j

[jaclaz]

Well, if you can interpred as a human being directly HEX code, great for you! But that is not the case with me, I have to stick to something that readable by average human beings.

j

NO, I cannot , (or not so easily , compare with http://reboot.pro/2246/#entry14607 )

but Daniel B. Sedory (aka the Starman) seemingly can and he is so nice as to publish his results.

jaclaz

[DiracDeBroglie]

Well since your system isn't untouched, the fact your settings are incorrect is because of one of these two issues:

1. You fiddled with the BCD.

2. The OEM uses some non-standard way to run recovery.

3. There is always something else possible.

You can see all of Reagentc switches with /?

While it is normal to see the winre.wim in C:\Windows\System32\Recovery, the one to actually use in booting is typically in the recovery partition. So I'd guess that your manufacturer is either using a 3rd party tool, or some in-house method of handling recovery, rather than using the official Microsoft guidance. For example, even your reagentc /info data is lacking...

Windows RE staged should be 1 not 0

Setup enabled should be 1 not 0

WinRE.WIM directory should have a path

Setup Files should have a path

That path is the same as the one in Recovery Environment.

But since you are back to working, I wouldn't worry about going about and fixing (breaking) it now. It may be by design as not everyone does it the same way.

Thanks for the info. I'll probably install soon a clean install of Win7HP which I will download from one the MS associate servers. I got an ASUS notebook K93SV and the way ASUS works is very sloppy; lots of bloatware and other rubbish. I'll get rid of it by a clean install. To boot from the Recovery/Re-Install partition I need to tap F9 at boot time.

BTW, the info which can be seen on the screen in Avanced Boot Options (ABO), is that also located in the BCD store?

Do I interpret it correct that first Windows Boot Manager loads its boot options (Win7, WinRE, Windows Setup, ...WinXP, ...Memtest, ...) and then the ABO? Or is it different somehow?

Thanks,

j

[Tripredacus]

To boot from the Recovery/Re-Install partition I need to tap F9 at boot time.

BTW, the info which can be seen on the screen in Avanced Boot Options (ABO), is that also located in the BCD store?

Do I interpret it correct that first Windows Boot Manager loads its boot options (Win7, WinRE, Windows Setup, ...WinXP, ...Memtest, ...) and then the ABO? Or is it different somehow?

Yeah the F9... this means they are using something "custom" likely because they entered into agreements with their software provider and didn't ditch them when the easy option came out with Vista or 7. This is why HP still used SoftThinks recovery with Vista, even though MS gave OEMs the tools to do it themselves with minimal development time. Windows 7 was even easier (aka no Visual Studio required). So with the F9, that is in the MBR which can be intercepted ahead of time before booting on your normally active (OS) partition. The basic function of that F9 is to take the OS partition, un-active it, and activate the recovery partition, then allow the PC to boot "normally". Of course then your recovery partition reverts these settings, which allows the next reboot to boot to the OS again.

As far as the Boot Menu in Windows, I am not entirely sure where that is stored. I know that it *can* be configured (adding options) since the Vista recovery method required a script to be used to add that "Recovery" option in the menu. However, Windows 7 natively has an ability to know to display that option if a valid recovery partition is present and/or certain settings are set in BCD.

I think (no clue really) that Bootmgr works likely similar to the F9 hand-off idea I posted before. Without any interaction, its going to run winload.exe (boot Windows), but if you interrupt that by using the F8 key, it boots to the menu. I don't believe that any of those options are preloaded, but when one is executed it knows what to do. I would presume a pre-load would delay boot time, and besides its not actually possible to execute more than one of those options at once.

[DiracDeBroglie]

I think (no clue really) that Bootmgr works likely similar to the F9 hand-off idea I posted before. Without any interaction, its going to run winload.exe (boot Windows), but if you interrupt that by using the F8 key, it boots to the menu. I don't believe that any of those options are preloaded, but when one is executed it knows what to do. I would presume a pre-load would delay boot time, and besides its not actually possible to execute more than one of those options at once.

Just did a test with an EasyBCD created bootable partition, with 2 options in the Window Boot Manager's (WBM) menu: WinRE (WinRE.WIM) and Windows Setup (which basically calls a BOOT.WIM with a WinPE in it). When the menu pops up for about 10 seconds or so, I tap F8, which makes the WinRE start loading first, and that takes some time because that is a WIM image. After the loading is finished the ABO (Save Mode, Save Mode with Networking, Save Mode with Command Prompt, ...) pops up. After proceeding with the ABO WinRE boots.

If I, on the other hand, change the boot order, that is, Windows Setup (default) and WinRE, I have the same procudere about the ABO menu after which I can boot into the Recovery partition's BOOT.WIM.

It is not quit clear where exactly the ABO menu is located (bootmgr.exe or bcd), but it is sure that the appearance on the screen can only happen if WinLoad.exe has been executed and/or the Win Kernel loaded.

j

[DiracDeBroglie]

The HP hardware normally comes with a "specific", "proprietary" MBR CODE, that allows to press F11 to get to the Recovery partition.

If you change the MBR code (as an example by installing *any* MBR based bootmanager and or simply run a MBRFIX or on Windows 7 a bootsect with the /mbr switch) that original MBR code is gone for good and restoring it (unless you have a copy/backup of it) is/will be - to say the least a nightmare.

jaclaz

Are there any bootmangers, bootloader, bootselectors, (like Grub, LILO, ... ) that can be put in the MBR and that become active only when tapping a particular F-key at boot time, after which the MBR bootselector performs a particular task like making a hidden recovery partition bootable, then effectively boot into it and after that turn the ID of all the altered partitions back to what is was before?? Or is this kind of property only for proprietary bootloaders of the OEMs (Asus, Dell, HP, ..)?

j

Edited July 10, 2012 by DiracDeBroglie

[Tripredacus]

You can do your own boot options using Terabyte Unlimited's MBR program. You can see some example here where I created my own recovery partition.

[DiracDeBroglie]

You can do your own boot options using Terabyte Unlimited's MBR program. You can see some example here where I created my own recovery partition.

There are several MBR programs of TU, could you provide me with the exact link?

Thanks, j

[jaclaz]

There are several MBR programs of TU, could you provide me with the exact link?

Thanks, j

This is the one you want MBR Utility, file mbr.zip:

page__view__findpost__p__769544

OR, forget about it and get OS-BS rectius mbldr instead:

http://reboot.pro/334/

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BTW this info is in the thread you were ALREADY pointed to:

(there are reasons why a link is given )

jaclaz

[DiracDeBroglie]

OR, forget about it and get OS-BS rectius mbldr instead:

http://reboot.pro/334/

jaclaz

I checked out MBLdr and that could be a good alternative to replace proprietary boot selectors, only kicking into action by tapping a particular Function key.

The link you gave me was in the context of someone who could not see the Recovery partition anymore. In emergency cases one can apply an even simplier solution for booting off the Recovery/Re-Install partition without having to resort to any MBR fiddling in case the MBR bootselector is lost. Burn a GPartEd LiveCD, boot from that, make the Recovery partition unhidden by unticking the checkbox hidden, and tick the checkbox Boot. Restarting the computer boots right away into the Recovery partition.

Even more simple, run the repair disc, CD/DVD, (and this any normal human being with a normal iq should have), go into the cmd console, then:

X:\diskpart

diskpart>list disk ; select disk 0 (if your recov par is on disk 0) ; list partition ; select partition [number of recov par] ; detail part ; set id=0C override (in case it was 1C, hidden fat32x) ; detail part (again) ; Active ; detail part (again)

Now the Recovery partition is type 0C, and active (will boot).

Quit the repair disc, restart computer and it'll boot into the Recov part.

PowerQuest's Partition Table Editor can also change the hidden fat32x (1C) ID to unhidden (0C). Reboot, mark Recovery partition as active in Disk Management and reboot again. Computer boots right away into the Recovery partition.

Booting into a Recovery/Re-install partition is *never* a problem, at least if you haven't been fiddling with the bootsector of it (as in my case).

I still need more time to go into all this (and into so many other posts and links) but I am off for 2 weeks not having access to any test machine. I can still read the forums now and then, though.

CU later folks, j

[jaclaz]

I checked out MBLdr and that could be a good alternative to replace proprietary boot selectors, only kicking into action by tapping a particular Function key.

....

PowerQuest's Partition Table Editor can also change the hidden fat32x (1C) ID to unhidden (0C). Reboot, mark Recovery partition as active in Disk Management and reboot again. Computer boots right away into the Recovery partition.

Well, I got you exactly where I wanted you to be , also grub4dos has this feature (and many others), see here (be warned it is advanced-advanced ):

http://reboot.pro/7138/

(and take into account that since the above thread, quite a few new tricks can be done with latish releases of grub4dos )

I still need more time to go into all this (and into so many other posts and links) but I am off for 2 weeks not having access to any test machine. I can still read the forums now and then, though.

See you when you are back .

jaclaz