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Kullenen_Ask

Any programmer think to make a winpe builder?

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HEy, peeps, comeon... :)

Was it not enough having (thanks heaven only briefly) exported the boot-land flamewar to 911CD? :ph34r:

Do we really need to have here a justificatiion for it coming from another at Gena ? :unsure:

Will this nonsense ever end? :w00t:

jaclaz

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Hi Kullenen_Ask,

you mix "projects" with "builders"

The topic, clearly shows you are looking for a hybrid-builder (what I call),

Some examples:

pebuilder

kape1-2

Makepe3

a set of batch builders available internet (for pe2/3)

etc.

These "hybrid-builders" can not be expand widely for other stuff, not "a lot" flexible,

(you can not fix pebuilder or kape core failures your own)

besides do their tasks what they designed for. :thumbup

Since they contain their core inside, you can not touch them.

ps: MakePE3 is special, It is full opensource mainly batch and IF you study it would be easy to make your plugins, instead of .inf, with batches and reg.....

Also I know you are looking for "pebuilder" kind of plugin structure with a new builder since some later posts of this topic,

above example also reproves....

You miss a big point:

pebuilder plugins (.inf) is using pebuilder's "inf to reg converter core" (following MS documentations etc.), which is a must for any PE1 build (nt5), Bart was smart to use same core with some minor additions as plugins.

Tip: If you want to write your own pe1 builder, you must be following nt5 install path rules, where setup using .inf files to create registry and copy files (from where to where etc...)......

But since pe2 , billy make things simpler, no need to read inf to write reg, setup hives are already there :whistle: also no need to use inf to find which files to copy, path structure already there and .wim having different indexes for different sets, and for features I guess now using xml.....,

shortly I advice you not to wait a pe2/3 hybrid-builder, plugin using old pe1 inf structure soon, I hope you understand.....

Besides you are right at one point (do not exagarate, only one point ), all i can say when (if) I start writing a builder (not soon, some year, but other candidates can be earlier) I know what to do to fit such desire............

*

to explain me what is the difference between Gena

you mix "projects" with "builders",

the link you give is about a script engine winbuilder, syntax,

here is link for Auto-IT syntax http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/docs/

here is link for cmd syntax http://www.robvanderwoude.com/batchfiles.php

here is link for wsh syntax http://www.robvanderwoude.com/wsh.php

......

neither AutoIT represents a specific program written with AutoIT,

I do not think all batches are doing same,

and etc......

but we know all batches with cmd console screen do not do same thing........

If we use a batch (.cmd) to build Gena, Gena will be still Gena. Besides using batch, yes possible, but would not be nice for end user, and etc....

At the time we start Gena, there was only winbuilder there to be used, unlike today :whistle:

More About Gena,

to make a pe1 build, you would either use ready regs (brrrr, bad for multilanguage support), or use pebuilder as core (check Alberich, BartPE-Core, Reatogo, Sherpya, Teuton...)

or make your builder as core ;).

ps: Alberich and BartPE-Core also using winbuilder for end user easiness, besides both using pebuilder for core build.

Gena using Saydin77 core (written by Saydin77). Saydin already bored & tired from winbuilder verrrry much before all of us (JFX, Galapo, Lancelot, ....) and decide to write his pe1 builder, his pe1 core part ended with some batches and au3 (opensource) codes. Core part, was a package, autoit.exe and plugins triggered by batches........ (au3 and cmd syntaxes...)

ps: Saydin77 core naturally have no troubles with hostx64 or different win versions ;).

Than he started to make a plugin organiser (what we call builder) to fit other requirements, but could not end.... (time troubles)

It would be hard for end user if we had decide to continue with batches when we first start with Gena, hence we decide to continue distributing Gena via winbuilder for a while (like BartPE-Core, Alberich) since easier for end user (cmd or wb....), besides designed Gena in such a way (code level), when there is a better alternative we will easly convert Gena to new builder(s).

Design part is simple: do not use winbuilder for critical registry and file operations (reasons written by JFX).

With this design development, current Gena get VERY stable today after a full 1 year work.

ps: This Design princaple previously used by JFX with old Multi7PE_SE before he become one of the member of "kicked the best developers out of the boot-land forum" fun club. B) Later as you know ChrisR continued with Multi7PE_SE having new name Win7PE_SE, simple proof of the success of this princaple and proof of... (guess)....

ps2: a related topic here

http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=160'>http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=160

Another diffirence among other PE1 projects: Gena is a full team project, it started with 2 admins (Galapo and Lancelot) fully supported by Saydin77 for core and core related stuff, BlueLife au3 tools you will notice all around (both following design princaple), and when you notice a patch, dependency or a rare feature inside Gena you will mostly notice it was done by JFX , and Olegpov's expertise with driverpacks and bootlogo, Nikzzzz expertise on bootmedia (+patch) stuff, and all supports so far on topics

The idea of being a team comes from nobody is (can be) "owner" of Gena, which requires a "true team" and "true hoby" spirit.

So far I know Gena is unique with having many developers active, using this development model among other projects.

For more Gena related questions, better as at

Gena home forum: http://theoven.org/

Well your topic already manupulated, and manupulation continues with similar routines I am quite familiar with, since you seem all fine with such off-topics here and asked the question, I hope above helps.

Back to subject:

As I wrote initially at current topic, I am also looking for a "real good" builder,

written by a real good programmer, following princaples JFX already wrote

reliability, speed, simplicity AND a clear script syntax.

Which I know same princaples valid for all softwares I had found all around, most home made, hoby natured, freeware productions follow same princaple.

Again mostly commercial products cause headaches. :whistle:

Till this happen, Search will continue, we already have a new one, and better ones requires a long work with anyone having available "hoby" time,

Or I will start to write, after my job-time available.

(Galapo and Saydin77 also candidates I know, having same time trouble for today)

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... but the biggest problem is keeping developers improving the existent projects ...

hmm funny, the guy who kicked the best developers out of the boot-land forum, calls himself also Nuno Brito.

:thumbup B)

My focus on this moment is to ensure the independence from Windows API to natively construct registry hives and WIM files without resort to MS code, in the process this allows removing the need for administrative permissions or installation of drivers to run the builder.

Your focus is not what any script developer cares about. I would highly recommend to focus on reliability, speed, simplicity AND a clear script syntax.

With above replies. :D You give me today's big smile JFX, Thanks. See you

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Since they contain their core inside, you can not touch them.

I want a touchable preferably open source builder. But the reason i want that is not for myself. I do not want or care to change the core, Gui, syntax nor i do not know coding. It is just for if the the main programmer decide to retire, other people can continue or a more clever approach (another programmer) can make addons, improve stability, functionality and continue the support time. And do not understand if it is open source why untouchable.

pebuilder plugins (.inf) is using pebuilder's "inf to reg converter core" (following MS documentations etc.), which is a must for any PE1 build (nt5), Bart was smart to use same core with some minor additions as plugins.

Tip: If you want to write your own pe1 builder, you must be following nt5 install path rules, where setup using .inf files to create registry and copy files (from where to where etc...)......

There is also a missunderstanding. But not about the meaning of your words. If you compare the inf file of a driver and inf file of the BartPE you can see they are not same kind of stuff. Also what i mean will be a third kind of stuff. It is just Barts way to process its scripts and he gives his scripts the extension inf. We can give .inf or else anything also extention not important, just will be familiar and will be easy to open with notepad. There do not need a inf to reg converter stuff because we do not work with a xp setup routine. My example looks like same as BartPE but it is just an example. I put a complate reg file contents under [RegAdd]

There is no inf to reg convertion. Also i forgot to mention copfiles part can be different and should be compatiable with "Optimize_Profile.txt" files as microsoft way.

I know a lot of people advise me to use MakePE3. It is most close builder for my needs. Also i tried to support and could not be succed. I explained the reasons in my topic or MakePE3 topics. It is depended to wimb and he can change any/all structure anytime as his needs because he is owner, coder of his work. There is only two options that first to write add ons to MakePE3. If i write a batch it can be useless in one day with an update change of wimb. Other option is to take MakePE3 and call it another name and make it another builder that will result a "rabbit" that will work until "me" support. Will not be universal.

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Hi,

WinBuilder is unique because it was created since the beginning with the purpose of creating custom Windows platforms, not just Windows PE. It provides a script syntax similar to batch and INI syntax along with a complete GUI support and a structure for running scripts in a given order/categories. It allows creating scripts that include files inside the code, in the same manner as people exchange email messages with attachments everyday.

Do you need to learn a new scripting language?

Yep. This is not difficult since most times you can use one line per command like:

RegImport,c:\myFile.reg

http://code.google.com/p/winbuilder/wiki/regimport

It is not possible to please everyone as you might have noted. The core of each WinBuilder project can be changed by anyone and wb itself has been developed since years with the support and feedback from different people all around the world. This is what I do, I love creating boot disks and I am a programmer that works closely with those who share similar tastes.

In case anyone has requests for features not already provided by WinBuilder to create a WinPE Builder, I will be glad to work on them.

:)

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Hi Nuno Brito,

This topic is NOT about why winbuilder is a disaster.

Although Major Points already underlined by JFX, you (as usual-expected) ignore, which is another major point of winbuilder failure...... (my smile JFX gave me)

ps: winbuilder is not unique anymore...........

Topic Starter Kullenen_Ask, as well as other contributers already knows winbuilder, and some already knows in detail why it is a big failure. (ex: knowing why one must NOT use RegImport,c:\myFile.reg , apperantly you do not, ask your test team.....)

If you want to do something about failures of your builder:

you may try to understand what Kullenen_Ask is after,

you may try to understand JFX comments,

you may try to read topics of bootland full of such annoyance by MANY users, (and you are still asking without fixing any !! )

you may even check relevant topic given above http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=160

---> work on them........

or

as expected, you can ignore all, and continue your self advertisements with posts like above, for

your msfn-vs-bootland click number race,

or manupulate what has already written for the audiance......

after years knowing you well, quite boring to watch indeed, only gives me smile to see rarely again.....

Here Kullenen_Ask open this topic, knowing available projects-builders :

Opened this topic just want ask for anybody interested and willing to code a program to build a winpe as a hobby or in his free times.

and further posts, he well describe what he is looking for anyone who is interested, Kullenen_Ask request is quite valuable information for the ones who have such goals...... I hope not to see winbuilder advertisements anymore on this topic which is not the subject, better you open another topic with a title "Why Winbuilder is a big failure" with initial answers of JFX, or not.....

Shortly: better not terrorize this topic like you and your friends always do around, reminding: this topic is NOT about winbuilder disasters, you are the one who jump in with "wrong" lines, caused JFX react and "fix" them......, Baby Step 1 of terrorize.... I hope you can stop.

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I want a touchable preferably open source builder. But the reason i want that is not for myself. I do not want or care to change the core, Gui, syntax nor i do not know coding. It is just for if the the main programmer decide to retire, other people can continue or a more clever approach (another programmer) can make addons, improve stability, functionality and continue the support time. And do not understand if it is open source why untouchable.

Sharing same feelings :thumbup , that is the reason behind opensource: Gena, MakePE3, Win7PE SE , Multi7PE SE.....

*

Driver infs looks like hives infs, but different, I will not go in more detail about infs since your main focus is PE3 and a Real Good new builder, where infs not desired.

All I want to explain why a new builder author would not jump on such organisation following history.....

Besides, as I mention before, I fully understand your idea, with having experiences with pebuilder, and as I wrote before I can only do something like that when I start writing........

*

I also advice you MakePE3, looong time ago.....

*

Focus on making batch plugins, ex:

mediaplayer.cmd

mediaplayer.reg

blablaservice.cmd

blablaservice.reg

===> This will be "universal"

regs would be easy, preparing a cmd to be used generally (ex: call batch with some parameters for source-target .. and other stuff...)

would take time, but in the end you get things organise, it will be easy to prepare new batches-plugins and as a result

you would be providing plugins to be used by EVERYONE.

To follow ""Optimize_Profile.txt" ms way", I advice you better make your own pluginer.exe, preferably using Auto-IT....... (and creating own pluginer.exe opens other gates ....)

For both paths, I am pretty sure you can get support for batches (.cmd) or/and Auto-IT about things when you stuck in design.....

*

Do not stuck in "universal" :whistle:

Think SherpyaXPE, where Sherpye decide to create a PE1 that is closer to real windows, created his tools (all opensource) and followed pebuilder plugins and etc. etc.....

With above batch-au3 idea, you can do same,

and in time if you made a good work, shared tidly and nicely, (ex: Sherpya -> homepage infos + distribution) someone will follow you one day since batches and regs are universal.

*

Or you can simply make plugins with a file list and reg

ex:

blablaservice.reg

blablaservice.txt

leaving how they will be used to end user.

**

Or you can ask wimb if he it is ok for him to use make_pe3 to makepe3KA (reminding BartPE->SherpyaXPE)

Like SherpyaXPE, if you do things right, than you will hit your "universal" goal.....

****

Long story to short, you can do something yourself that fit your desires, and easly sharable by all,

or you can wait someone do it for you, with an excuse "I do not know programming", and spend time on other stuff....

Above are ideas that come to my mind, all requires some sort of work, maybe useful for you maybe not, up to you......

Choice is yours, blue pill or red pill, but in the end I advice you to keep fun. :thumbup

Overall, I like you working on PE3 (4) stuff, even without above, besides sharing with everybody on forums, even not being a pe3-4 fan at all, Thanks.

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JFYI, a lot of members on MSFN (myself included) has no idea what may or may not happen on the other forums. So if there is some sort of problem between members, it cannot be public on MSFN. This isn't a place for that sort of thing. :angry:

Also, there isn't a need to take sides about whose Win PE maker is better. Its not a competition. The fact that someone may want to make a new one, and not work with existing projects, does not automatically mean there is something wrong with those projects. Of course, comparisons to other projects can be done! I can see that maybe there is something that Make_PE3 does good that Winbuilder doesn't and vice versa. Who knows about all the other Win PE makers out there. There will always be gap-bridging projects and attempts and that is just fine.

Besides, its not like anyone is charging for their PE maker. :whistle:

Basically what I see for this thread is that a basic plan must be made. Its the same as any other real programming (or even a database project). Plan out everything first then figure out how to tackle it. If that means you want to compare and contrast other Win PE makers, that's fine. Just make sure to keep things on topic. B)

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This isn't a place for that sort of thing.

Thank you. It is not nice to see attempts of turning this conversation into a troll party.

@Kullenen_Ask

I am available to talk about my personal experience in regards to the challenges and difficulties that appear when creating a good builder. I am also available to showcase the current features of what has been done over the years to help developers create Windows PE projects. Last but not least, I am also here as a programmer to work with a team to implement new features if they are not available already.

Take care!

:)

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Opened this topic just want ask for anybody interested and willing to code a program to build a winpe as a hobby or in his free times. With support of scripts to add programs in it. Custumization support. Different shells support. Preferably open source (Can help other programmers to add their skills). Just as BartPE, Winbuilder, MakePE3 ... I think there is enough people in this forum capable of coding but just less people to open topics about WinPE

Sorry I am working on other project which is an better option for me right now ! Ask other forum members or nuhi (geek in windows)

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Sorry I am working on other project which is an better option for me right now !

That's disappointing news, nishants52. When do you think you might be available to take on this project?

@Kullenen_Ask

It might be useful to list your current step-by-step procedure for creating your customized WinPE. NOT how you compile your data and settings (registry keys and file lists) - rather, how you incorporate them into a standard winpe WIM. That way, a programmer might have a better idea of what the program should actually do.

A member, martinr, has kindly made available the source code (c++) for his WIMMaster program, which would be a start for any program dealing with WIM files. (Note that wimgapi.dll is now available in all Windows 7 installations.)

Post:

Download: http://martin.boot-land.net/WIMMaster/

Another alternative, which jaclaz may have hinted at (and which flew over my head), might be to use an installer program like NSIS or INNO Setup. Here you would need to learn another scripting language to compile an installer (.exe or .msi) which when executed would present the user with a GUI of options and components that can be added to a customized WinPE. Rather than installing to the current online OS, the installer would firstly need to mount a WIM image, then install to that offline mounted WIM.

Regards

Edited by allanf

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Sorry I am working on other project which is an better option for me right now !

That's disappointing news, nishants52. When do you think you might be available to take on this project?

@Kullenen_Ask

It might be useful to list your current step-by-step procedure for creating your customized WinPE. NOT how you compile your data and settings (registry keys and file lists) - rather, how you incorporate them into a standard winpe WIM. That way, a programmer might have a better idea of what the program should actually do.

A member, martinr, has kindly made available the source code (c++) for his WIMMaster program, which would be a start for any program dealing with WIM files. (Note that wimgapi.dll is now available in all Windows 7 installations.)

Post:

Download: http://martin.boot-land.net/WIMMaster/

Another alternative, which jaclaz may have hinted at (and which flew over my head), might be to use an installer program like NSIS or INNO Setup. Here you would need to learn another scripting language to compile an installer (.exe or .msi) which when executed would present the user with a GUI of options and components that can be added to a customized WinPE. Rather than installing to the current online OS, the installer would firstly need to mount a WIM image, then install to that offline mounted WIM.

Regards

may be next month's 7th or 11th. Also pm me about more details i cant do everything on my own u know.

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It might be useful to list your current step-by-step procedure for creating your customized WinPE. NOT how you compile your data and settings (registry keys and file lists) - rather, how you incorporate them into a standard winpe WIM. That way, a programmer might have a better idea of what the program should actually do.

I just mount the wim, load the hives of winpe and full windows to current registry with loadhive.exe program, i copy and paste the registry stuff from full windows hives to winpe hives. I copy the files from install wim to winpe wim. There is no extra ordinary way.

may be next month's 7th or 11th. Also pm me about more details i cant do everything on my own u know.

What kind of details you need? I am ready to help.

Edited by Kullenen_Ask

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It might be useful to list your current step-by-step procedure for creating your customized WinPE. NOT how you compile your data and settings (registry keys and file lists) - rather, how you incorporate them into a standard winpe WIM. That way, a programmer might have a better idea of what the program should actually do.

I just mount the wim, load the hives of winpe and full windows to current registry with loadhive.exe program, i copy and paste the registry stuff from full windows hives to winpe hives. I copy the files from install wim to winpe wim. There is no extra ordinary way.

may be next month's 7th or 11th. Also pm me about more details i cant do everything on my own u know.

What kind of details you need? I am ready to help.

i want some details on what you want it like something... Something...

I would happy if someone starts this topic with me in pm.

Thanks and regards

Nishant sekar

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No problem to start pm. But it is just pretty good to continue from here for everybody read and add to the conversation and say opinions.

1-)For to program a winpe builder first you need to try and use other builders such "makepe3" and "winbuilder"

2-)I prefer a explorer like gui, as winbuilder or the fallowing link GUI

3-)At main menu user will select the source media. Program need to detect the media language. Maybe can read "D:\boot\en-us" and detect it is "en-US" language variable. Also can read version number from selected media and say that not supported service pack version.

4-)There is 2 images at boot.wim first one is not bootable and doesn't have client setup packages. Second one bootable and has extra setup files. Maybe user can select which one to use. Probably it will not change anything but can decrease boot.wim size if the first one used.

5-)Program need to export the selected image to a temporary location as BOOTABLE (imagex /export D:\sources\boot.wim 1 C:\Builder\Wim\boot.wim "WinPE" /boot)

6-)There will be 2 mount directories under "Builder" folder (I used C:\a and C:\b in batch file). They can be "C:\Builder\a" and C:\Builder\b"

7-)Program will mount the "C:\Builder\Wim\boot.wim" to "C:\Builder\a"

8-)Program will mount the "D:\sources\install.wim" selected image (can be image selection menu) to "C:\Builder\b"

9-)Program will load the "C:\Builder\a\Windows\system32\config\ default/software/system" hives to current registry as exploreable with regedit as default/software_00/system_00

10-)Program will load our registry settings.

http://hotfile.com/dl/130284818/caaf7b8/registry.rar.html

11-)Program will copy the files we from "C:\Builder\b" mounted install.wim directory to our "C:\Builder\a" winpe directory. It will look also language variable "en-US" and copy related files.

http://hotfile.com/dl/130284959/639174b/copyfiles.cmd.html

12-)Program will unload the hives and unmount and commit the winpe wim. Unmount the install.wim

This will be our main script and will be customizable as file lists and registry part. I explained the most simple as i can. Also this manual should be the most simple manual to create a winpe 3.0 on the internet. If you can do them let us see what you did and we talk about what we will do more in detail. Also read previous posts.

Edited by Kullenen_Ask

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