Laptop Won't Recognize more than 8.4GB HDD

[JorgeA]

Friends,

Several weeks ago, as part of my computing self-education, I performed a clean installation of Windows 98SE on an old Daewoo notebook computer.

The notebook had come with a massive 1.5GB hard disk and 48MB of RAM. As I wasnt using this computer for anything, it was a good platform for practice and experimentation. I learned how to do many things I'd never dared to try before: open a laptop case, change and add new RAM (its now up to the maximum 80MB), replace the hard drive, and install Windows on it. Very instructive experience, and it turned out to be a lot of fun.

However, as part of my learning process, Ive since discovered that of the 15.1GB that the new drive supposedly has, only 8GB or so is recognized by the BIOS and Windows. So the question is: How do I make use of the missing 7GB? I guess this question could be broken up into several, depending on the approach taken. What Id like to know is if any of these approaches is possible:

1. Is there anything I can do to get this computer to recognize the missing drive space, without losing the information thats already on the drive i.e., somehow to resize the partition?

2. Barring that (that is, if there is no way to get it to recognize more than 8GB at a time), is there any way I could reclaim that missing space to create a new partition, again without losing the existing information?

Im not opposed to reformatting the HDD and reinstalling Win98SE if it comes to that, but of course Id like to avoid having to retrace all those steps, if possible.

Here is some relevant information about the computer that hopefully will help:

From System Information:

Operating System -- Windows 98 4.10.2222 A

Available Space on Drive C: -- 8046MB (FAT32) - reflects usage of some space, of course, but I was hoping to see >13000MB here

BIOSDate 06/15/98

BIOSVersion PhoenixBIOS 4.0 Release 6.0

CPU Pentium

MachineType IBM PC/AT

Ssytem Board DriverDate 4-23-1999

Primary IDE Controller (dual fifo) Driver ESDI_506.pdr, Date 4-23-1999

From System Properties:

Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller

Intel 82371AB PCI to ISA Bridge (ISA Mode)

Intel 82439TX Pentium Processor to PCI Bridge

From the BIOS Setup Utility:

Hard Drive Maximum Capacity 8455MB

Cylinders -- 17475

Heads -- 15

Sectors -- 63

LBA Mode Control Enabled (but see the Hard Disk Manager info, next)

32 Bit I/O Enabled

From the DEKSI Hard Disk Manager:

Hard drive is correctly identified as a Toshiba MK1517GAP, 14.1GB -- BUT the C: (only) drive listing has it, like Windows, at 7.9GB

Capacity: 15.1GB (matches the advertised size, though not the actual size)

48-bit LBA Addressing: Not Supported (how does this square with what the BIOS Setup said?)

From the CPUID.EXE Utility:

Genuine Intel Pentium Processor with MMX Technology

Processor Family: 5

Model: 8

Stepping: 1

From the Intel Chipset Identification Utility:

Intel 430 Chipset

Memory Controller: 82430TX

Notes:

a. The BIOS Setup gives me the choice to select the Drive Type as either Auto or User. If I select Auto, the values cant be changed, but if I select User, then the values for the cylinders, heads, and sectors become modifiable. But I hesitate to muck around with those values unless I know that it can be done without screwing up the data, programs, and settings that are already on the HDD.

b. Curiously, the DEKSI Hard Disk Manager (a Windows program) knows that it's a bigger drive. Why don't Windows or the BIOS know, while the HDM does know?

c. One thing I find confusing is that the BIOS Setup seems to suggest that it does LBA, which according to my reading and limited understanding of the subject should take care of the 8.4GB barrier and permit it to recognize larger drives yet its not recognizing it. It also has the same BIOS version and release number as my Win98FE tower, which has always happily used a 13GB drive. The only relevant differences (as far as I can tell) are that the BIOS Date for the laptop (06/15/98) is earlier than that for the tower (03/15/99), while the system board "Driver Date" for the laptop (4-23-99) is actually MORE RECENT than that for the tower (5-11-98). So what gives?!

What do you think is there any way to make use of the extra space on the hard disk?

Thanks very much!

--JorgeA

Edited June 19, 2010 by JorgeA

[jaclaz]

You are being hit by the second "main" HD size barrier (LBA/Int13h):

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/bios/size.htm

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/bios/sizeGB8-c.html

The BIOS is showing some "wrong" DATA, how did you chose the drive in it?

17475x15x63x512=8,455,104,000

But from what you wrote it seems more like a partitioning problem, maybe you used a CHS partition type (read as replied "no" to FDISK asking "Enable large disk support" ? )

Boot to plain DOS and post what FDISK says.

jaclaz

[Mijzelf]

8GB is the maximum disksize using CHS addressing. So apparently your BIOS doesn't support LBA addressing.

Windows uses it's own drivers, so it shouldn't have problems to access the whole disk. The problems you are facing are:

- The partition tool of Windows (fdisk) is a DOS program, which uses the BIOS for disk detection and access. So fdisk can't create partitions beyond 8.4GB.

- Windows is loaded by DOS, so all files needed to start Windows need to be in the first 8.4GB.

The first problem can be solved as easy as connecting the disk to a more modern PC, and add a partition filling the rest of the disk. (Maybe you can even use fdisk when running in a DOS-box under Windows). 

The second is solved by discipline. Never install anything on the new partition which is loaded early in the boot process. I once made a W95 system unbootable by installing a virusscanner on the wrong partition. Obviously a part of the scanner is loaded before the Windows disk drivers are loaded.

[Arminius]

The only relevant differences (as far as I can tell) are that the BIOS Date for the laptop (06/15/98) is earlier than that for the tower (03/15/99), while the system board "Driver Date" for the laptop (4-23-99) is actually MORE RECENT than that for the tower (5-11-98). So what gives?!

(5-11-98) is the date stamp for files from 98FE English language edition and (4-23-99) is the date stamp for files from 98SE English. Nothing significant there.

Did you check for a BIOS update at the manufacturers website? If you already have the final version then write down your BIOS settings, turn off and unplug the laptop, remove the battery, then open the case and remove the CMOS battery. Press the power switch for a few seconds. Reinstall the CMOS battery and put everything back together.

This may not fix anything but I came across two computers recently that had problems because of corrupt BIOS settings. One was a laptop which didn't allocate the correct amount of RAM to the on board graphics and the other was a desktop which would not power up at all until I did what I said above.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Arminius

[JorgeA]

You are being hit by the second "main" HD size barrier (LBA/Int13h):

jaclaz,

A SECOND barrier at 8GB??? Aaaarrgghhh!!!!

But the very informative articles, on how hard disks are structured, are much appreciated!

I do remember answering “Yes” when FDISK asked if I wanted to enable large disk support.

When (following your instructions) I booted to DOS and opened FDISK, there was a menu of choices. Which one should I select to get you the information that you asked for? Here is what “Display partition information” (choice #4) reported:

Partition- C: 1

Status- A

Type- PRI DOS

Volume Label- NEWDRIVE (the creative, original name I gave it)

Mbytes- 8062

System- FAT32

Usage- 100%

Hope this helps. What do you think?

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Mijzelf,

Discipline won't be a problem. OTOH, connecting a notebook HDD to a regular PC is an attractive idea, but I'm not very clear on how to do that.

If I connect the laptop’s HD to another computer internally, can I “just do it” or will I have to be careful about jumper settings and other issues? Does it make any difference that it’s a physically small laptop drive? Will I need to get any special cabling that wouldn't already exist inside the case?

Not ruling out doing this, I just want to know what I'd need to do and have in order to get the job done.

And, keeping in mind that we're doing this for a Win98SE computer, could I connect the HDD to the Win98FE tower to do the partitioning?

Changing the subject a little -- What do you think about drive overlay software as an alternative (assuming that I can find one that’ll work with this drive)?

Sorry to pepper you (and everybody else) with questions!

Gratefully,

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Arminius,

Thanks for the info on those dates -- that solves one mystery.

Sadly, the manufacturer (Daewoo) went bust about ten years ago, and most of the company’s operations (including computers) were shut down. (No rebooting possible there...) Found this out when I searched for a BIOS update a few weeks ago. And it looks like the CMOS battery is soldered into place, so that approach appears to be out, too.

That said, the CMOS battery is now old enough that it discharges every time I disconnect the machine from the AC adapter for more than a couple of minutes, forcing me to re-enter the desired settings. (To get around that, I just leave it plugged in all the time.) So I guess that could be one way to "remove" the CMOS battery!? To simulate your suggestion, I could unplug the AC adapter and remove the power battery, press the on/off switch for a few seconds, then stop and plug the AC back in and turn the computer back on.

--JorgeA

[rloew]

Mijzelf,

Changing the subject a little -- What do you think about drive overlay software as an alternative (assuming that I can find one that’ll work with this drive)?

I sell a version of my BOOTMAN Drive Overlay that would provide the support you require.

And it looks like the CMOS battery is soldered into place, so that approach appears to be out, too.

You can reset the CMOS without removing the battery by corrupting it's checksum.

[dencorso]

And you can use the freeware CMOSSave/CMOSRest to automate the resetting of the CMOS contents. It's much faster than reentering them by hand.

[jaclaz]

Yep, these are what I was looking for:

Mbytes- 8062

System- FAT32

Usage- 100%

The drive is reported by BIOS as having the geometry:

17475/15/63, which as said equates to:

17475x15x63x512=8,455,104,000

that once you take a whole cylider out for MBR +hidden sectors:

17474x15x63x512=8,454,620,160

8,454,620,160/1,024/1,024= ÷8062

Now the point is how the drive is detected by BIOS.

Oldish BIOSes had a number of pre-determined HD sizes, then some had an "auto-detect" choice and some had an option to enter geometry of the drive manually.

Check also the actual disk drive, some had a jumper to limit the shown size to 8 Gb.

Post EXACT model number and whatever info you find of stickies on it AND the BIOS strings:

http://www.wimsbios.com/faq.jsp

you never know what can be still found around.

And you really should take the (I know it's a PITA, but it's also a MUST) challenge of replacing the CMOS battery.

jaclaz

[Mijzelf]

If I connect the laptop's HD to another computer internally, can I "just do it" or will I have to be careful about jumper settings and other issues? Does it make any difference that it's a physically small laptop drive? Will I need to get any special cabling that wouldn't already exist inside the case?

You'll need an adapter to connect it to a desktop computer. While it's electronically the same connection, a laptop disk has a smaller connector (smaller pitch). About jumpering, when you connect to a cable of it's own, you don't need jumpering.

When your laptop can boot from CD, you could use a gparted live cd to add the partition.

And, keeping in mind that we're doing this for a Win98SE computer, could I connect the HDD to the Win98FE tower to do the partitioning?

That is no problem. Any partition tool will do, as long as you don't touch the current partition, and only add a new one. Actually, I think dos+fdisk of W98FE is the same as dos+fdisk of W98SE.

Changing the subject a little -- What do you think about drive overlay software as an alternative (assuming that I can find one that'll work with this drive)?

That will also work. I'm not sure if you can add an overlay without having to repartition the disk, but if rloew thinks his overlay will work for you, I assume it's OK.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Mijzelf

[JorgeA]

Mijzelf,

Changing the subject a little -- What do you think about drive overlay software as an alternative (assuming that I can find one that’ll work with this drive)?

I sell a version of my BOOTMAN Drive Overlay that would provide the support you require.

And it looks like the CMOS battery is soldered into place, so that approach appears to be out, too.

You can reset the CMOS without removing the battery by corrupting it's checksum.

rloew,

Thanks very much for the offer. Where can I get more information on BOOTMAN? I will definitely consider it if the other approaches being discussed here don't work.

Also, how does one go about corrupting the CMOS checksum?

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

And you can use the freeware CMOSSave/CMOSRest to automate the resetting of the CMOS contents. It's much faster than reentering them by hand.

dencorso,

I continue to be amazed by the breadth of knowledge and the wealth of information possessed by the folks who participate in this forum. And by you all's willingness to share.

BTW, going back to what I said about the CMOS battery discharging when the PC is unplugged, and losing its settings -- does that count as a reset, or only if I initiate the process?

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

You'll need an adapter to connect it to a desktop computer. While it's electronically the same connection, a laptop disk has a smaller connector (smaller pitch). About jumpering, when you connect to a cable of it's own, you don't need jumpering.

Mijzelf,

Thanks for the additional info!

Please forgive the elementary question, but -- Let's say that we decided that the best way to go in creating a new partition for this notebook HDD is to connect it to a desktop PC. The adapter would connect at one end to the HDD. Where would the other end go, and would I also need a power cable for the notebook HDD?

--JorgeA

[dencorso]

The adapter would go between the data cable and the drive. And sure, you'd need a power cable or an Y power-cable duplicator, unless, which is very possible, you have one idle power cable from those comming from the power supply.