iceangel89 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I wanted to get some of your opinions on this issue. I am getting frustrated at the programs I am supposed to work with at my workplace. I am working as a junior software developer in a small company. A lot of times I need to "re-develop" apps - upgrade them. and so I need to understand what the apps currently do, migrate databases and such.So my recent assignment, the old one not done by me:The database for the reports has columns named e01 through e10 and in each cell (this is using access) has data like: Achieved[-[|]-]Achieved[-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-][-[|]-Ok, O know its some kind of delimited data but how do O know what each value does represent? There is no docs so I read code, and O feel this is stupid. I waste so much time and end up with nothing much. Its working with very badly developed code/db.Btw, by the number of columns (10) * number of delimiters you can count how many fields I need to create this report right. That's very tedious.What will you do? Quit and get a job that has better quality software/clients seems a good choice? I mean, reverse engineering such an app seems like a waste of time. I rather learn to reverse engineer windows 7! Make it less bloated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn9999 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 You sound just like me when it comes to the jobs I've been involved in.For what I notice, most people just look to get the job done however they can and move on, rather than do any kind of decent job on what is before them. Why? Either just wanting to get done and move on because of job pressures, or incompetence. And forget documentation, no time for that, ever. That's assuming anyone there even knows enough to make it.And there's no incentive to change it either, because this is how it was for their bosses and their bosses boss and... well you get the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamehead200 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I wanted to get some of your opinions on this issue. I am getting frustrated at the programs I am supposed to work with at my workplace. I am working as a junior software developer in a small company. A lot of times I need to "re-develop" apps - upgrade them. and so I need to understand what the apps currently do, migrate databases and such.Sounds like what I'm doing right now. Actually, what's worse is waiting on others to approve the work you've done or waiting on people to tell you what to do next.What will you do? Quit and get a job that has better quality software/clients seems a good choice? I mean, reverse engineering such an app seems like a waste of time. I rather learn to reverse engineer windows 7! Make it less bloated.I get as much work done in as little time that is needed and spend the rest of my time on MSFN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripredacus Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I agree, its pretty bad practices, but it usually only rears its head in small companies. I've been in that type of situation also and it can be pretty tough to figure it out. As for your question, I haven't seen anything quite like that before so I couldn't tell ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceangel89 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) You sound just like me when it comes to the jobs I've been involved in.Sounds like what I'm doing right nowahh seems like all developers see bad code ... maybe thats why no1 wants to be developers these days ... developers are treated like garbage collectors ... ppl need something want us to get it done no matter what ... I get as much work done in as little time that is needed and spend the rest of my time on MSFNLOLAs for your question, I haven't seen anything quite like that before so I couldn't tell yamy position was a junior software developer ... not a expert reverse engineer Edited June 8, 2009 by iceangel89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn9999 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I get as much work done in as little time that is needed and spend the rest of my time on MSFN. Lucky you! I had on average 2-3 hrs of work a day in my last position, but policy dictated that it was a fireable offense to go onto the Internet. Let's just say I don't care too much to be bored to tears like that ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamehead200 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I get as much work done in as little time that is needed and spend the rest of my time on MSFN. Lucky you! I had on average 2-3 hrs of work a day in my last position, but policy dictated that it was a fireable offense to go onto the Internet. Let's just say I don't care too much to be bored to tears like that ever again.Browsing MSFN can easily be considered to be "for business purposes." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn9999 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) my position was a junior software developer ... not a expert reverse engineerThat's what you get when people just want to get the job done with no understanding of what they've done and no effort to clean it up. And yes many do it for a job security thing too (the real 100 line, 600 op code C source to add 1 to a variable comes to mind). You have to reverse engineer, there is no alternative in most cases. I even had to rewrite a number of things using the original code and its output as a guide because the business logic in the original code was so obfuscated. At least you hopefully are learning how important it is to make the original code you do human consumable for the next person that will look at it.Browsing MSFN can easily be considered to be "for business purposes." We didn't even have that exemption. Edited June 8, 2009 by Glenn9999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceangel89 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 Lucky you! I had on average 2-3 hrs of work a day in my last position, but policy dictated that it was a fireable offense to go onto the Internet. Let's just say I don't care too much to be bored to tears like that ever again.no internet? what kind of job are u in? no need to do any kind of research? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeFiend Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 ahh seems like all developers see bad code ...Loads of it, for various reasons. Be it apps that just "grew" from a quick little thing to a monster app with no real direction or planning, code that used to be "ok" but now looks a lot uglier with several extra features tacked on in odd ways and tons of bugfixes (not always pretty) accumulated over time, bad decisions made by management, incompetence, lack of time, poor designs, feature creep (how 'bout a kitchen sink with that?), specific customizations made for a single client or user, tons of code that needs refactoring (but who's got time?), bits and pieces of code sprinkled all over the place by people who can program half-decently but aren't particularly familiar with the language/frameworks/whatever at hand, people not always using the same conventions (even simple things like naming stuff and indentation) and so on. And typically, rewriting it all from scratch doesn't tend to yield results that are any better... And like most programmers, you're going to do a fair amount of maintenance work over the years too. So get used to ugly code maybe thats why no1 wants to be developers these days ... developers are treated like garbage collectors ... ppl need something want us to get it done no matter what ...I think there's a whole lot more to it than just that. A lot of people just don't enjoy doing that kind of stuff (e.g. maintenance work inside a lib that's used by some business app -- most people find it all very boring), it doesn't always pay great (outsourcing is common these days too), lots of places with unreasonable expectations, timelines and what not, lots of people find it just too complicated (or plainly "not cool") and much, much more.In fact, a LOT of people probably would switch careers now if they would have known what to expect back then. In most fields new tech only advances so fast... You learn the job once, and you got very little new stuff to learn after that. But when it comes to IT, the pace is just unreal. Even more so for programmers. It seems like you're always having to learn some new language (or even new versions of them), new frameworks, TONS of new technologies (pretty much everything IT folks deal with), new versions of every app all the time (VS, SQL Server, etc), new methods, new ways to do things, tons of stuff you never had to do before all the time (be it directx, data warehousing, socket programming, WPF or whatever else), lots of us have to do development of all kinds ("client" apps, web apps, apps running as services on servers, embedded apps and so on) and a lot of those same people (especially on the embedded side) have to deal with several CPU lines too... By the time you're familiar/comfortable with something, it's about to get replaced with a new version (most of the time anyhow). It's not exactly the easiest career IMO. You could invest 24h a day to your career (and learning), and it would still feel like you're falling behind somehow. And that's assuming your job is only being a programmer (no other/extra duties)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn9999 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 In fact, a LOT of people probably would switch careers now if they would have known what to expect back then.Yep. Not a day now that I don't regret ever even thinking about it. Not necessarily for those reasons. Let's just say that if I knew Dilbert was a documentary on it and not just a cartoon, I would have never even bothered.That's most of the real problem I run into. Very little time gets spent actually doing any real work, and the rest of the time is putting up with the Dilbertesque nonsense. Case in point.no internet? what kind of job are u in? no need to do any kind of research?Sure there's Internet to accomplish business functions where I worked. But not for you to use. PHB says it's not needed for programmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceangel89 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 i actually like IT/Programming and all, its just that all these bad code is a great turn off... i guess other alternatives are design ... i like 3D Modelling, Texturing etc also but nv got a chance to pick it up properly ... i guess in 3D i can also put some of my programming skills to use ... theres scripting still ... so u (anyone here) will switch careers? from programming to what tho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamehead200 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 In fact, a LOT of people probably would switch careers now if they would have known what to expect back then. In most fields new tech only advances so fast... You learn the job once, and you got very little new stuff to learn after that. But when it comes to IT, the pace is just unreal. Even more so for programmers. It seems like you're always having to learn some new language (or even new versions of them), new frameworks, TONS of new technologies (pretty much everything IT folks deal with), new versions of every app all the time (VS, SQL Server, etc), new methods, new ways to do things, tons of stuff you never had to do before all the time (be it directx, data warehousing, socket programming, WPF or whatever else), lots of us have to do development of all kinds ("client" apps, web apps, apps running as services on servers, embedded apps and so on) and a lot of those same people (especially on the embedded side) have to deal with several CPU lines too... By the time you're familiar/comfortable with something, it's about to get replaced with a new version (most of the time anyhow). It's not exactly the easiest career IMO. You could invest 24h a day to your career (and learning), and it would still feel like you're falling behind somehow. And that's assuming your job is only being a programmer (no other/extra duties)...Hmmm... Exactly what I was thinking. Ever since I started this new job (since the beginning of May), there have been quite a few dull moments. But, because it's kind of like an internship (i.e., it counts for credits), I have to stick with it until the end of August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceangel89 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 what will u rather go into then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamehead200 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 what will u rather go into then?Something hardware-based most probably (or at least I'm hoping). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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