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Why should they do this? Vista is a OS for millions of users who know how to start a PC, write some mails and surf the www. They need the included tools and don't care about other tools

At least they could make all those extra's optional again, like was the case up to Windows 2000.

Agree 100%! :thumbup

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At least they could make all those extra's optional again, like was the case up to Windows 2000.

Sadly, if they do that, they would have hard time justifying new OSs. So, from their perspective, they have to put new junk in. It applies to any software (see Nero, Acrobat...) When it becomes successful, it starts to bloat beyond proportion...

Dammit.

GL

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Sadly, if they do that, they would have hard time justifying new OSs. So, from their perspective, they have to put new junk in. It applies to any software (see Nero, Acrobat...) When it becomes successful, it starts to bloat beyond proportion...

Dammit.

GL

You've got a good point there, but Microsoft sold shiploads before too, when stuff was optional. Also, the EU is not exactly happy about their practices, they got a huge fine in the EU for not making stuff optional. So there is hope still. ;)

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You've got a good point there, but Microsoft sold shiploads before too, when stuff was optional. Also, the EU is not exactly happy about their practices, they got a huge fine in the EU for not making stuff optional. So there is hope still. ;)

And almost no one purchased the N versions of Windows. It may be that "modular" versions of Windows really aren't that big a deal, outside of tech circles like this one.

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Let me explain: I managed to install nvmixer using the WinXP SP2 compatibility, but other than showing me the master volume it does nothing. I don't get the full app like in XP to be able to customize the way my music sounds: full bass and treble and so on...

But what drivers did you use? Vista drivers, or XP drivers?

I installed XP drivers straight out. None of that "compatibility" mode garbage. Works perfectly. Sound environment, surround sound settings, speaker config, EQ....

-edit: rebooted into windows 7 today. Guess what ISN'T working now? Yep, nvmixer. Have sound volume levels, but trying to actually launch the application I get a runtime error.

I tried both XP and Vista drivers, but no luck. As I was saying, this is nvidia's fault, not 7's.

Windows 7 is NOT Vista, that's for sure. Of course, the code is pretty the same, but it's been cleaned up. I'm sure that Windows 7 RTM it's going to be a hell lot faster than XP SP2/SP3 or Vista. Unfortunately, the software companies and drivers will write vista/7 apps it's gonna take a while (I hope not 10 years!).

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Why should they do this? Vista is a OS for millions of users who know how to start a PC, write some mails and surf the www. They need the included tools and don't care about other tools

At least they could make all those extra's optional again, like was the case up to Windows 2000.

because it won't make a diffence with speed. The files would be still located inside WinSxS folder. When you install a function they will only me mapped to the destination folders as hardlinks. So it#s better to have an OS which can handles all functions. If you need less function use vLite :rolleyes:

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im running the 7000 beta in 64bit.

ive ran vista and xp pro.

i think this windows 7 is more or less a spotless piece of software.

runs real smooth and i have no issues yet.

other than most game that use punkbuster wont work.

call of duty world at war works though which im happy about.

think its because it logs in to work.

other than this is a game for windows title its not microsofts fault.

but cod4 wont work saying that it doe'snt see what api im useing.

something for pb to fix in the 8 months of the beta run.

other than that im impressed so far.

they could do with changing some of the remaining parts left from vista though.

makes it look a clean build and would help pull new customers.

:thumbup from me so far.

Edited by wraith36
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From a long time XP user who didn't see the point in shelling out hard earned cash for Vista (nice though it looks on my daughters' laptops) I have to agree with wraith36's initial positive view on the Beta. I have just installed the 7000 beta 64 bit version as dual boot with my XP SP3 system and have used it for the 10 hours or so since:

  1. although the 3.3Gb download took forever, the remainder of the install process was surprisingly easy and painless
  2. internet browsing including multimedia delivery seems as fast as under XP and is definitely richer and smoother
  3. the taskbar features are really cool (maybe not a justifiable reason for actually purchasing the product but a great USP)
  4. recognised and installed driver and software for my iP4300 printer. Sad that I should feel such joy but what a pleasure not to have to hunt around for hair-laden, scratched cds or internet driver searching
  5. it just feels much easier to get around in

On the downside, I needed to seperately download and install the drivers for the onboard soundcard and I had a minor hanging problem when installing numerous apps without restarting between (a deliberate ploy, of course). I also cannot see the data files on the hard drive that hosts XP but I'll hunt around to see what I need to do to fix. And I wish more vendors would provide 64 bit versions of their software - but I guess it is just a matter of time.

I'm also planning to install the latest Ubuntu release by way of comparison just to see what MS has learned......

Although I have quite a few more apps to install and need time to play I am impressed by the quality of what we have and am glad MS seems to have decided to sacrifice functionality in this release for quality of what is delivered.

So here's hoping for a continuing bug-free time .......

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I find myself much more impressed with Win7 than I was with Vista at this same point in testing. Far more programs work right out of the gate. I haven't had to add drivers to existing peripherals, or even look for any. I really like the pinable taskbar buttons. Win7 does a much better job at utilizing the available resources than Vista, but does consume a goodly amount regardless. A lot of operations are just plain faster. Program installation to file searching are much improved in speed. The only thing that would be a deal killer, is if I'm unable to make SPTD devices function properly--but it's still early in the game. Of course, your individual startup/shutdown will depend on just how many programs are installed. I guess if there was one thing I wish they would add, it would be a single window were we could disable ALL the stuff like Windows Defender, Windows Firewall, UAC, System Restore etc. at one setting, instead of having to dig around for it. Fact is, there will always be those of us who just plain prefer our 3rd party programs to the built in stuff. :whistle:

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  • 2 months later...

Faster, for the most part.

Some good changes in the GUI; mostly more bad changes in the GUI.

Good: Customization options better organized than Vista. Still a mess though.

Bad: Getting ride of Classic Start Menu Options (This forces users to type to find things and delays time it takes to do task. As a person with several multiple use injuries to both my hands and arms, the last thing I need to do is more typing. Secondly, it's forced, no option not to use it! Totally unnecessary!)

Bad: Still making too many changes to the GUI at once and driving up both costs and learning curve for users and IT professionals and home users alike.

Bad: Making it too hard to find tasks. You have to go through too much to change power management and firewall options.

Bad: Forcing Superbar on users and getting rid of Quicklaunch. You should have to be an IT Pro to get it back. At least that can be done though!

Bad: Getting ride of Network Connectivity Animation. Gee, I kinda-sorta want to know when packets are going into and out of my computer. First, that way I know it's working. Secondly, that way I know when there is malicious software running in the background or I'm being hacked.

In a nutshell here is my first impression of Window 7:

Once again, Microsoft took one step forward and two steps back.

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  • 2 weeks later...
At least they could make all those extra's optional again, like was the case up to Windows 2000.

Sadly, if they do that, they would have hard time justifying new OSs. So, from their perspective, they have to put new junk in. It applies to any software (see Nero, Acrobat...) When it becomes successful, it starts to bloat beyond proportion...

Dammit.

GL

They want you to buy and buy and buy.....

It is your fault if you get lured by anything new only because it is new even against your own interests and needs.

When any product becomes successful and starts to bloat beyond proportion, then it's just the time to go back and recover the old version of the same product, and also the time to lend no ears any more to further ads.

Edited by seaweed
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I'm using 7077 and really like it even more than I thought I would at first since I don't care for Vista. The one complaint that I have is I miss the move to, copy to and the delete options that were on the left side.. I noticed that this topic started out with build 6801 so a few things may have changed since then but for the install time of 14 minutes doesn't seem right. I do understand that my pc is 1.4Ghz w/1Gig Ram but it took a lot longer then that to install I didn't time it but when I install XP its pretty close to the time it says.

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I'm using 7077 too. 7077 is an escrow build which means it has to better than 6801. yes, a lot has changed since then. 6801 was an alpha/pre-beta build which means its buggy, and some features aren't even unlocked yet (remember the superbar?). While on the hand, 7077, being an escrow build would be the final stage before an RC is introduced, they basically look for show-stopper bugs. Compared to vista, the management and development of windows 7 has come a long way. I mean, remember Vista RC1, they had a huge bugeven then.

So far, with 7077 my experince has been quite satisfaactory. But what's bad is, when booting I get so nervous that my windows 7 won't boot up, then i've got to reinstall my whole drive! Plus, when I've installed 7077 it's quite hard meaning that I have to backup my whole drive. It's not really hard but it just takes a long time, soecifically, 80 minutes :unsure: . Then I reformat my hard drive, wow windows 7 :thumbup NiCe!! O oh wrong driver, repair startup, system restore. Nope, doesn't work----so have reformat again :angry: . Then reformat, brake, reformat again!

But other than reformatting for 3 times, I'd say Windows 7 7077 is a pleasurable experience. Plus the only bug I'm getting is my wlan card driver bug. And everything is quite staifactory.

Tip: if don't want to reformat again and again, try using backup and restore of windows 7 instead of reformatting then a new install. It's actually faster with backup and restore. :whistle:

Edited by kickass94
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  • 2 weeks later...
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i checked it out for a while, felt like i was using Vista (current) with a different theme.

aside from a few weak changes, if it was installed without my knowledge, i wouldnt have known much different. hopefully its as fast as XP on my netbook though. i wouldnt pay much for it, seems too much like one of those software enhancement applications that are more of a novelty than actually making it any more fun or faster to use.

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I like win7 better than Vista but:

-Strip the junk out of it. It still contains way to much stuff that's just a waste of systems. Someone said that you can use Vlite to get ride of it. True in som cases but be aware that using vlite means that MS will not support that box. For us that is a requierment.

Every minute of extra installation time means about 30 000 minutes a year for us. With a IT person costing $100/hour thats about $50 000 for every minute of extra installtion time.

Therefore everything that isn't truly needed (not that MS claims is needed) should be core installed om the Enterprise SKU and the rest should be customizable. MS had this feature for Vista but removed it for some reason (saw it in an waik alpha).

Is there such a huge difference then?

Yes there is. MINWIN will boot from disk and provide network connectivity in less than 40 MB on disk ...

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