Windows 98SE On Refurbished Machines

[Vince4Amy]

I Sell refurbished machines, although I usually install Linux on these machines, but for this one case I need to Install Windows 98SE. I know that there are ways to make it secure but there are some things I need to review and consider. Here is how the Machine is set up:

Pentium III 750MHz

256MB SD-RAM

8MB Onboard Graphics

40GB HDD

Obviously the specifications of this system are more than enough for Windows 98. The things I need to consider are:

Anti-Virus Software, Since Grisoft are ending AVG support for Windows 98 soon I will need a good alternative, I've been researching but I'm not sure which the best one is but I'd like some advice. Unless of course Grisoft will just continue update packages for the 7.x Series.

Firewalls, these shouldn't really be a problem as the Router that will be used is a Hardware Firewall.

Spyware/Adware, I'm thinking of just using Spybot S&D.

The machine will use Office 2000, with the Office 2007 Compatibility pack (Obviously it will have to be modified to install on 98 using ORCA). The default Media Player will be WMP9 & Media Player Classic.

Since this machine will be for a customer, there are precautions that must be taken, obviously I don't want to be looking at it in 3 months time because it's been trashed already.

Edited January 7, 2008 by Vince4Amy

[erpdude8]

Spyware/Adware, I'm thinking of just using Spybot S&D.

Upgrade to Spybot 1.5.2 when it is officially available. I'm currenty beta testing Spybot 1.5.2 RC1 which fixes numerous problems with Spybot 1.5.

[Tarun]

Put in enough RAM so you have 512MB, maybe get a 32MB graphics card and install XP.

[bristols]

Put in enough RAM so you have 512MB, maybe get a 32MB graphics card and install XP.

I'm surprised at you, Tarun, a moderator. Other MSFN members who have posted replies in the 9x forums to suggest simply that the original poster change their OS, with no intention to actually help and answer the original poster's question, have been sanctioned by moderators for flaming.

To all posters: please think a bit more about actually answering the question asked, rather than posting flippant and dismissive replies.

Having said that, I can't answer the question myself. Like Vince4Amy, I want to know suggestions for anti-virus software too. Apparently even F-Prot will soon stop producing signature updates for F-Prot for Dos:

http://www.f-prot.com/download/signaturefiles.html

Edited January 8, 2008 by bristols

[noguru]

Try Avast. If your are looking for a freebie that has Win98 compatibility it's the only option. It's a fully functional AV.

[Tarun]

Put in enough RAM so you have 512MB, maybe get a 32MB graphics card and install XP.

I'm surprised at you, Tarun, a moderator. Other MSFN members who have posted replies in the 9x forums to suggest simply that the original poster change their OS, with no intention to actually help and answer the original poster's question, have been sanctioned by moderators for flaming.

The original poster wishes to ensure the system is safe and secure. Unfortunately this cannot be so easily achieved on Windows 9x/ME. Even upgrading to Windows 2000 would grant a huge increase in both stability and security. I recommended XP as it is still a mainstream OS and so shall it continue to be for several more years.

Windows 98 is nearly ten years old (June 25, 1998) and can be perfectly acceptable for those who cannot afford a good computer and/or an upgraded OS. However considering this is a refurbished computer that the poster sells, it would be of no harm to invest a little more to run a stable, reliable OS that won't give the end user many (if any) problems and has the highest compatibility with software available today. To me, it would seem logical to invest a little bit more to run XP at the very least since this is going to be sold for profit.

You should look at this from an end-user point of view. Even if Vince4Amy throws in all these "Windows 98 customizations", it may not (and there is a potential that it cannot) fit their needs. Just look at all the work that the poster is having to go through already. Imagine how troublesome this would be for the end user! Quite literally it can be an annoyance to a nightmare. The poster even mentions how he is having to modify the Office installers just so it will install onto Windows 98. Anti-virus and anti-spyware are also not so easy to come by. Even the need for a firewall is mentioned, but that too is difficult to find (if even possible). Of course you cannot rule out the poor memory management and how frequently you encounter a blue screen in Windows 9x/ME. With that you also have to reinstall 9x/ME more than you would 2000 or XP. While you can attempt to assume the basics that an end user will need this computer for, you cannot know for certain. Taking this into consideration, since you would be/are selling this computer to an end user; you want it to be as easy as possible for them. Remember, they're going to come back to you if anything goes wrong and if they have any questions.

If this computer is sold refurbished with Windows 2000 or XP, the end user would be able to benefit from a mass of security features. Including User Accounts and their associated permissions. So if this is a family computer, you could have an unlimited Parents account, while making an account for the Kids set to be a Restricted User. So they cannot install numerous programs and it can even help to protect them online. You can't get that with Windows 9x/ME. Yep, you can have multiple user accounts that allow them to have their own desktop space, their own settings and everything. The user can also benefit from NTFS for file security, partitions and they are not limited by the 137GB restriction that Windows 9x/ME faces. No hacks or patches needed, 48bit LBA is already fully functional. Software is plentiful for XP as well. There are plenty of choices for anti-virus, anti-malware, firewalls, office software, browsers, IM clients, media players, vast amounts of games and much, much more. Windows 9x/ME isn't as fortunate to get updated software and if they do, it's extremely rare. Firefox isn't being updated for 9x/ME anymore, you're stuck with Firefox 1.5.x. Even the security software that you'd use with 9x/ME isn't being updated anymore or has reached it's End-Of-Life for that version, leaving the 9x compatibility behind.

Overall, with XP you get stability, usability, multi-user friendly, compatibility, an easy method to network (and share across the network), a great ease of use, ongoing updates from Microsoft, a new Service Pack around the corner, ongoing support from Microsoft for several more years to come until the product reaches it's End Of Life, and the list of benefits goes on and on.

I completely support projects such as Gape's Windows 98SE Service Packs which can help keep the OS up-to-date which is great. Even the Auto-patcher for 98 is beneficial to those still on 98. Unfortunately it also is not legal since it is a redistribution of Microsoft's Hotfixes (look at what happened to AutoPatcher) which is a violation of the EULA that comes with every hotfix. But since Windows 9x/ME has reached EOL, its security is very little to non-existant.

I hope this has clarified why I suggested a few minor (and affordable!) hardware upgrades to help install Windows XP. It seems very clear to me that it would be the very best option for an end user, regardless if they are new to computers or not.

Cheers,

Tarun

[Ponch]

Educate the customer.

I guess the margin on that PIII does not allow him to offer "2 Days Introduction to safe Internet Browsing". On the other hand, buying XP would more than double the costs, making any offer from ebay much more interresting.

[Vince4Amy]

I'll give Avast a try, there's simply no point of upgrading to XP & getting more memory, SDRam seems to cost more than DDR nowadays due to the limited supply and to be honest I may as well start from scratch if I was going to do that, it would work out cheaper. The whole idea is that I have a range of refurbished machines that I sell from time to time. Usually I install Linux, one user requested they'd like Windows 98 instead of Linux and XP wouldn't be cost effective.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Vince4Amy

[Ponch]

Tons of patches? We're talking just one here. Go cry foul when it's appropriate.

...talking 48bit LBA patch ... for this 40GB disk ... fo*l !

[puntoMX]

Good, let’s edit this topic. People just never learn.

Ponch, don’t call people “fools”, although they are some times.

BenoitRen, you have been nothing then a miss information giving person. Post again in this topic and you are out.

Vince4Amy, XP works okay on 256MB better would be 2K, but I understand why you keep it cheap; some people are willing to pay not much for a refurbished system but try to be fair to the customer .

[bristols]

I currently use Avast Home. It seems far less resource-hungry than Norton AV, and runs flawlessly on my 2 Win98 SE systems. I still remain to be convinced about how effective Avast is, though. As soon as I get some time to play around, I'll try the approach advocated in these forums by Herbalist (using the HIPS application System Safety Monitor, amongst others).

Edited January 9, 2008 by puntoMX

[Tarun]

Firefox's support for for 9x did not end at 1.5x, but will end at 3.0, for example.

I was unaware of this. Last I had heard on the topic of Firefox was that 1.5 was the last to work on Windows 9x/ME. Though it has been a while since I had heard of it. It was around the time Firefox 1.5 was just being released so some of the sources that I had read that 9x/ME support with Firefox would end there most likely were speculating.